Framing uncut sheets

[mirciusx]

CBJ, can you ask your friend about the frame size?

I saw at my girlfriend a Ribba frame, from Ikea and I saw that the frame has 4 cm height. There are a lot of photo frames, but not so higher. Here are the details of Ribba : 72x102 cm frame, 70x100 cm photo frame (picture inside) and the passepartout inside meas 49x69 cm. And a link from Ikea UK. http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/30132527/ (Sorry US folks, I need an account to get Ribba details from Ikea US. Canada too. I don't know why, in Europe you can search products on Ikea site without creating an account.)
Because Ribba frame has 4 cm height you can put inside the frame one ore more decks also. A deck of playing cards has 1.7cm height (TH, for exemple). Also I measured the Ultimate Deck uncut sheet which has 56x64cm. So you need another passepartout, because this one from the frame it's longer that the uncut sheet. Anyway, it's a white one maybe you would like to use a black one.

I've made a little draw. I hope it's clear and understandable. It's only an idea.

What I don't like is that 100x70cm is huge. You'll need a larger room for this frames, I guess. 70cmx3 photo frames are 2.1m and with space between two frames, let say 30cm, and 50cm between left and the right wall, that means 3.7m. 

So, if you don't have larger rooms and you have a lot of uncuts, sell your uncuts or give as a gift to your friends

[Don Boyer]

(Sorry US folks, I need an account to get Ribba details from Ikea US. Canada too. I don't know why, in Europe you can search products on Ikea site without creating an account.)

That's largely due to how Europe has much tighter laws protecting consumer privacy over the Internet.  They make you log in so you and your activity can be tracked.

Having said that, however, I was able to find this without having to log in - same model series, same size.  Perhaps they make Europeans log in because they CAN'T be tracked, per EU law.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30132527/
$25 in your local Ikea store

[Emmanuel]

I think Ikea is great, but I'm very wary of their larger Ribba frames.

The "mounting" hardware included with the Ribba frames are extremely weak since they clip into the sides of the backing instead of being mounted into the side frames.

The frames are also fiberboard, which is essentially compressed cardboard. With uncut sheets, you want to use glass instead of acrylic, and the Ribba mounting clips will not support the weight of glass.

In fact, Ikea stores don't even use their own mounting hardware in their showrooms. Any large frames that are hanging on an Ikea showroom wall are hanging on two nails positioned near the upper corners of the frame. Although the nails can support the weight, the frames can be picked up right off the wall.

[Don Boyer]

I think Ikea is great, but I'm very wary of their larger Ribba frames.

The "mounting" hardware included with the Ribba frames are extremely weak since they clip into the sides of the backing instead of being mounted into the side frames.

The frames are also fiberboard, which is essentially compressed cardboard. With uncut sheets, you want to use glass instead of acrylic, and the Ribba mounting clips will not support the weight of glass.

In fact, Ikea stores don't even use their own mounting hardware in their showrooms. Any large frames that are hanging on an Ikea showroom wall are hanging on two nails positioned near the upper corners of the frame. Although the nails can support the weight, the frames can be picked up right off the wall.

Fiberboard in itself isn't a bad material.  The compression used when it's glued together actually makes fiberboard stronger than standard plywood - there's no one plane for all of the grain, eliminating that as a weak point.

I will say, however, that a good frame needs a good mounting.  I never use anything less than wall anchors for anything weighing more than perhaps a pound.  There's some good ones out there - my preference is a variety of butterfly anchor that you insert into a drilled hole, then cinch up with zip strips that you snap off once you've got the anchor fully scissored open against the back of the sheetrock.  The variety I use can hold about 75 pounds of weight.  I used two of them to mount a rather sizable medicine chest made of wood - solid as a rock.  Also used them to anchor bookshelf cabinets against a wall so they wouldn't fall forward from the weight - again, solid as a rock.  You might think 75 pounds is overkill for something like a framed uncut sheet, but you'll never doubt for even a moment that your frame isn't leaving that wall for anything short of a catastrophe.

[mirciusx]

Ribba are strong enough to keep one uncut and a deck. The total weight will be no more than 4Kg, even with two decks. If you take a medium Ribba, let's say like this one 50x50cm http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20078050/, maybe 5x6=30 decks will fit inside the frame, but I think the lowest part of the frame will keep 30 decks or maybe not. One deck has 96-98 grams, so will be ~ 3 Kg. I was thinking also to use a frame for rare decks and hanging on the wall.
Ikea use eco parts, so we won't see so much glass in their furniture. Easy to move, easy to get ready in 10-60 minutes and to forget if you'll like to change something in your home after a time. I am a classical guy, but I don't like to keep hard wood furniture like my grandparents. They have 50-100 years old furniture, even is looking very good, it's so hard to move in your home or to change something if you don't like it.

After more than a year I kept my uncuts in tubes and I want to hang on the wall one or more uncuts. So let's storm braining with a solution for everybody. Ikea is everywhere in the world, even it doesn't look like the best option we have at the very first sight. I might think you have also uncuts hanging on the walls. What it was your solution?

[Emmanuel]

Mirciusx, I would be very careful if you choose to use the larger Ribba frames.

The properties of fiberboard aside, every single large Ribba frame I've owned has bowed out when I hung them, even in the cases where I kept the acrylic cover instead of using glass. I strongly suggest getting real wood frames instead (or any other strong material that won't bow out so easily when hanging).

[Yashi]

Would anyone know if laminating uncut sheets would damage them in anyway? Long term or short term damage?
I don't own any uncuts yet but I'm planning on buying a few over a couple of months. The thing with framing them is that they only show one side of the uncut. I haven't really thought it through yet but I was thinking on something like a swivel display (see picture) where you could filp through the different uncuts, remove them from the swivel and place them back at anytime.

[52plusjoker]

We have used a shadow box with glass on each side of the paper being framed to accomplish what you want. However you can only display one side if hung on a wall - we turn ours over from month to month!

By the way I would NOT laminate them.

[Yashi]

Thanks for the insight. I guess turning them over also gives you place a fresh new look. 

[jwats01]

Snapped a couple of shots...

Those look really good. Thanks for taking the pics. Seems like a relatively inexpensive solution. I'd held off on buying uncut sheets because I'd no inclination to spend a lot on framing, and didn't want to have a bunch of sheets laying around.

i've had a few paintings framed before and custom framing is not cheap. Hobby Lobby, here I come!

Course, I should likely get something to display the deck collection while I'm at it. LOL

[Don Boyer]

Would anyone know if laminating uncut sheets would damage them in anyway? Long term or short term damage?
I don't own any uncuts yet but I'm planning on buying a few over a couple of months. The thing with framing them is that they only show one side of the uncut. I haven't really thought it through yet but I was thinking on something like a swivel display (see picture) where you could filp through the different uncuts, remove them from the swivel and place them back at anytime.

I've thought of using those before - while they allow easy viewing of both sides and free up a lot of wall space, they do have the disadvantage of taking up a lot of floor real estate.  If you have the space for it, go for it.

The larger displays can be really bulky as well as very heavy - I've seen ones made of steel in the past, though I have no idea what's being used now.  Plastic would be too flimsy, I'd think.  What's this one made of?

[Yashi]

I've thought of using those before - while they allow easy viewing of both sides and free up a lot of wall space, they do have the disadvantage of taking up a lot of floor real estate.  If you have the space for it, go for it.

The larger displays can be really bulky as well as very heavy - I've seen ones made of steel in the past, though I have no idea what's being used now.  Plastic would be too flimsy, I'd think.  What's this one made of?

Plastic I think. It's just a sample picture to give you guys an idea of what I mean. If I'm going to push through with this, I would have one made of steel. I thought about the space it would take up but I figured it's worth the space. Visitors should have some fun when browsing through the uncuts.

[Don Boyer]

Plastic I think. It's just a sample picture to give you guys an idea of what I mean. If I'm going to push through with this, I would have one made of steel. I thought about the space it would take up but I figured it's worth the space. Visitors should have some fun when browsing through the uncuts.

Just be careful about not breaking the bank with this!

There is another possibility - you could use an area rug display of some kind, something that could be hung off of a wall or maybe even a ceiling.  These companies makes the pro-grade ones used by stores.

http://www.jhbest.com/
http://www.galtdisplayrack.com/

If it's strong enough to hold up area rugs, it's strong enough to hang uncut sheets from, and when not in use, it could be laid semi-flat against the wall.  You'd also still need something into which to put the sheets, but that shouldn't be too tall of an order.  Your poster rack is nice in that it's simple, but this might look more like a proper display, letting you hang uncuts on the wall, so to speak, while allowing you to change up what's on display with a few turns of a page just as with the poster rack.

Also, though you probably know this already, be careful about the size of the poster rack.  I've seen a few that are smaller than standard wall poster size.

[Yashi]

My dad had a swivel TV wall mount made by a department of the pharmaceutical company he works at. Maybe I could commission them to cook something up for me.

Just be careful about not breaking the bank with this!

There is another possibility - you could use an area rug display of some kind, something that could be hung off of a wall or maybe even a ceiling.  These companies makes the pro-grade ones used by stores.

http://www.jhbest.com/
http://www.galtdisplayrack.com/

If it's strong enough to hold up area rugs, it's strong enough to hang uncut sheets from, and when not in use, it could be laid semi-flat against the wall.  You'd also still need something into which to put the sheets, but that shouldn't be too tall of an order.  Your poster rack is nice in that it's simple, but this might look more like a proper display, letting you hang uncuts on the wall, so to speak, while allowing you to change up what's on display with a few turns of a page just as with the poster rack.

Also, though you probably know this already, be careful about the size of the poster rack.  I've seen a few that are smaller than standard wall poster size.

Thanks for the info Don. I'll be looking into those. I'll need more thinking and saving up on this project. I'll post it over here if I do manage to push through with it.

[52plusjoker]

Check this site out [and others like it] - might be something there that works.
http://www.triodisplay.com/catalog/poster-display-c-415.html

[BiggerDee]

With the $49 (before 40% coupon of 50% off sale) Hobby Lobby Exhibition frames, the backing is held in place by small metal bendable tabs. If I want to display the other side of the uncut, I can take the back off, flip the sheet, and have it back on my wall, with a different look, in about 60 seconds. I thought about the "Which side to display? Can I change what's viewed later on?" option before I went to these frames. I am up to about 20 framed sheets, with another 4 or so coming through KS pledges. Also, if you use Command Strips to hang them up, as opposed to nails, there's no wall damage, they are easy to take down for switching the sheet side, they never lose level, and you can easily move frames around to change the display order of your collection. Cheap, classic and expensive looking, sturdy, highly adaptable and flexible...hard to beat.

[Don Boyer]

With the $49 (before 40% coupon of 50% off sale) Hobby Lobby Exhibition frames, the backing is held in place by small metal bendable tabs. If I want to display the other side of the uncut, I can take the back off, flip the sheet, and have it back on my wall, with a different look, in about 60 seconds. I thought about the "Which side to display? Can I change what's viewed later on?" option before I went to these frames. I am up to about 20 framed sheets, with another 4 or so coming through KS pledges. Also, if you use Command Strips to hang them up, as opposed to nails, there's no wall damage, they are easy to take down for switching the sheet side, they never lose level, and you can easily move frames around to change the display order of your collection. Cheap, classic and expensive looking, sturdy, highly adaptable and flexible...hard to beat.

Sounds like a great solution.

I've thought about the whole "If you could only display one side" issue.  For a deck with totally bog-standard faces, I might show the backs, especially if they're attractive.  But if there's something custom or unique about them, I'd probably show the faces.  There's the added bonus that if it's one of the hundreds of decks that have a free double-backer in the box, you still get to see both sides, in a sense.

Examples - I'd show the blue Split Spades Lions face up.  While the faces are pretty standard except for some altered courts, the blue deck came in a stack order - to make that stack, the cards had to appear on the sheet in that same order.  So rather than orderly groupings by rank and suit, the cards are all over the sheet in no immediately-apparent order, and looking at the sheet over time would allow you to memorize the stack!

I have two uncuts of Fournier 605s.  I really like the shade of green used for the backs, so I'd probably show that uncut face down and the brown one I'd display face up.

I also have an uncut of the Gold Arcane deck - that would go face up, as the faces on that would be more interesting than the backs and the back is visible on the double-backer card..

[BiggerDee]

I keep buying Fed52 sheets thinking that I will display the backs, but always wind up showing the fronts. What I REALLY LOVE is when a designer will have one double-backed card on the sheet so when I display the front of the sheet, you can see an example of what the back looks like. That makes the decision much easier for some sheets. I'd love to have doubles of some (Like the Ornates) to display each side in a separate frame but while I have plenty of wall space, I don't necessarily want 75 uncuts hanging in my house! My wife might be a little perturbed about that! :-) 

Some card backs also look better in sheet form. I'm not super impressed by the HMNIM cards, but since I was already ordering a could of decks to ahve in my collection, I ordered an uncut. The back design looks really good altogether as an uncut. If I really like a card back design, I'll buy an uncut, but I mainly buy them thinking of the overall look on a sheet in a frame. Some simple/common cards will surprise you with how good they look uncut!

[ftlum]

Hi All. 

I just bought my first sheet of uncut cards (I got an Ultimate deck from Dan & Dave) and intend to try to frame it myself after buying some custom-cut glass/ frame/ mat.
How would you recommend mounting the cards to the foam board backing?  Will archival tape at the corners be enough?  I'm concerned that the rolled-up card sheet might cause me some difficulty there.  Also, how big of a border would you recommend for the mat? 

Finally, I was thinking that I should get a cheap sheet of uncut cards to practice on.  Does anyone have a recommended store to get such a sheet?

thanks in advance,

Frank

[Don Boyer]

Frank,

First of all, welcome to the forum!  You should let the gang get to know you better by making an "Introduce Yourself" topic.

Second, as you can now see, there's been a lot written on this subject in the past.  I've merged your topic with a pre-existing topic on the subject that's packed full of the information you're looking for.  Sometimes it's easier to buy a wheel than to try reinventing one from scratch, if you catch my meaning, so when going to post a topic idea, use the search feature see if the topic already exists and you might save yourself a lot of time.

As far as a cheap uncut to practice on - well, that depends on your definition of cheap, really.  I don't typically run into them for less than $20-30, with the rarer ones costing considerably more, especially in the collector's post-retail market.  There's also the fact that most of them are made as limited editions - you be "testing" your idea on a rare item, not easily replaced, unless you found uncut sheets of basic decks like Bicycle Rider Back/Standard.

This page here has three uncut sheets at the bottom of decks from Bicycle's standard product line, as opposed to limited editions, so you won't feel quite as bad if they get ruined.  They range from $10-12 each.

Cheers,
Don

[ecNate]

I'm concerned that the rolled-up card sheet might cause me some difficulty there.  Also, how big of a border would you recommend for the mat? 

My uncuts are still in the tubes, but when I did posters years ago I would lay on clean hardwood floor and cover it with heavy books for about a week.  That would help flatten it naturally over time so it's easier to work with.  Assume it should be similar with uncuts?

[Don Boyer]

I'm concerned that the rolled-up card sheet might cause me some difficulty there.  Also, how big of a border would you recommend for the mat? 

My uncuts are still in the tubes, but when I did posters years ago I would lay on clean hardwood floor and cover it with heavy books for about a week.  That would help flatten it naturally over time so it's easier to work with.  Assume it should be similar with uncuts?

I'd call that a safe bet.

[ftlum]

Thanks for the link, Don!  That's the sort of price I was looking for.

[Don Boyer]

Thanks for the link, Don!  That's the sort of price I was looking for.

Good luck, and let us all know the results of the experiment!

[ecNate]

Well it only took well over 3 years, but I finally got all my uncuts framed and up on the wall.  I really liked the idea I saw once about including the actual deck framed with the uncuts, but that makes framing even more of a challenge and requires shadow box frame, etc.  So I just created informational images with the tuck and then used that instead.  I got quotes on custom framing these and basically for the cost of one of them I could buy a higher end mat cutter (Logan Artist Elite, although I got with 60% off list with coupon) and buy mat board in bulk to do it myself, so that's what I did.  Another reason it took so long.  That and getting nearly a dozen frames and mat was pretty expensive while money and time was being spent building out the basement where most of these are now on display.

I just have 3 left to do, the pipmen pair and the Dondorf uncut once it arrives.  The Pipmen using the MPC layout means they are wider than the frames and matboard (over 24") so either I will have to do without the deck image or place it to the right/left instead of underneath.

I did use acid free mat board, but due to price just went with cheaper IKEA poster frames with acrylic instead of glass.  I also would have liked to do proper archival style mounts with t hinge, but with the tolerances and size I had to instead use linen tape in more liberal amounts (I have to go back and fix the art of money set as that's how I found out it really only works with smaller and thicker photo prints).  Still, the house is pretty well conditioned and these are away from sunlight for the most part so willing to take a chance.  I went with mat board and frame size of 24x36 (IKEA Link) and the USPCC uncut actual card area size is 21 1/4" x 25 1/4", but you'll want to slightly decrease that so the cut indicators on the edge don't show.  This is also important is that edge gives you something to mount to the mat as actual uncut size is just under 22x26.5".

Other sources for uncut framing help
http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=5066.msg77516
https://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8796
https://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=3756