The Apollo Deck Reprinted?

[vmagic]

Actually after reading through the comments I don't think this deck should even be on Kickstarter as mentioned before. It's not original, you're not doing any of the work yourself, you can't give us progress updates as required by kickstarter because there is none until it is funded, and lastly there are no guarantees! Also you are a kid, I've seen many much older people get in way over their heads with Kickstarter projects, you sure you can handle it?

[xela]

Actually after reading through the comments I don't think this deck should even be on Kickstarter as mentioned before. It's not original, you're not doing any of the work yourself, you can't give us progress updates as required by kickstarter because there is none until it is funded, and lastly there are no guarantees! Also you are a kid, I've seen many much older people get in way over their heads with Kickstarter projects, you sure you can handle it?

1. A project doesn't have to be original to go on KS, though granted originality does help boost funding.

2. You don't have to "do the work yourself" to go on KS. You just have to create the project and oversee management of it.

3. KS does not require progress updates unless there is something to update, which is not always the case. "Everything is going according to plan" is a big enough update.

4. Of course there are no guarantees, I don't know why you think that because there are no guarantees, it doesn't belong on KS. The very nature of KS depends on "no guarantees." You're giving him money for him to create what he wants to create, and the only guarantee you get is that he has to refund you if he doesn't make a good effort to deliver what he promised. Stop funding KS projects and pretending you're on eBay/Amazon. This weird mentality is one that I have  ONLY seen in the playing card community. Everyone else seems to understand that a funding platform =\= web store.

5. The only thing he has to handle is shipping, which is the one point you're 100% correct on. It's pretty much the only part you can fuck up on a card project.

[Paul.Middleton]

Hey guys, I understand everything you are saying. The bit that really costs is scanning in everything and drawing it out exactly the same so we have the files in a high enough quality to print. It is a lot of money and it is doubtful whether it will get funded. Thank you for the kind words about the project. JP does have a point. Although it is silly, I deleted my previous Kickstarter account so I could use my primary email for newer better projects. If you have any questions please ask me. Any feedback is super helpful.

I would like to ask something, what would happen if we were to cancel and relaunch with a new video, new goal etc. how would we do it? What would the response be? I am asking you guys because you know what you are talking about and I am considering this.

Great to see some honesty and transparency! I'm not sure I understand why, but it's great to see some honesty.

Having a UK fulfillment center to work with as well would be a big plus - it saves you from the daunting task of filling what could be THOUSANDS of orders.

If this interests you down the line in the future - drop me an email. I'm currently talking to one future KS project creator about us taking care of just that.

Consider this, as well, though it won't be a popular decision with some: restrict orders to distant countries where you don't have a fulfillment center to a minimum of three decks.  The expense of packing one- and two-deck orders and posting them by Air Mail International will put a HUGE drain on your project's budget.  It becomes more cost-effective for you and for your distant buyer if you have them invest for at least three decks.

Whilst it is strictly true that it's more cost effective for a backer, it may not be for you - if you went with a distributor or fulfillment centre, then there actually isn't much different between 1,2 and 3 decks. I have a business account with Royal Mail which provides discounts based on economies of scale - so if this is something you wanted to do, myself or a fulfillment centre may offer a cost-effective way of dealing with orders as the discount we'd get from Royal Mail would probably offset the fee you the company to some degree.

Like I say, drop me an email down the line if you want to discuss anything. paul @jpplayingcards.co.uk

[benjitaylor]

Thank you Paul, that actually sounds great. I will be sure to contact you.

[BiggerDee]

For what it's worth, as a decent sized collector, when I pledge on KS, I'm in it for the long haul, and I never cancel a pledge. Over 100 projects backed, and not a single cancelled pledge. I lost respect for backers who cancel their projects just because it looks like funding isn't going to happen. I see it as I'm supporting them, but they are giving up on me. Petty, maybe, but if a creator cancels a project, I refuse to back a relaunch and, more often than not, I don't support that creator again. Good or bad, that's the way that I am. Cancel, and you run the high risk of offending backers.

[benjitaylor]

Good point! I am not going to cancel, I will hope for the best!

[Sovereign]

Guys, thoughts on this KS for reprinting an old USPCC deck:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/benjitaylor/apollo-playing-cards-from-1890s

£25,000 cut off point seems crazy high? He says:

"Why do you need more money than the average deck of cards project?
Unfortunately, this is mainly to do with the digitalisation of the cards. I can't stress how much hard work goes into doing this whereas on a normal deck of cards, you can submit your artwork ready to go. These cards are so old and worn and there are very few remaining. We have to be super careful in this process."

To clarify: he is saying it costs less and is easier to design an entire new deck completely from scratch than to scan in an old one and clean up the files? REALLY?

[Rob Wright]

Already a thread about this one

http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/the-apollo-deck-reprinted/

Where's Don when you need him? 

[Don Boyer]

Already a thread about this one

http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/the-apollo-deck-reprinted/

Where's Don when you need him? 

Right here, Chuckles... 

Guys, thoughts on this KS for reprinting an old USPCC deck:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/benjitaylor/apollo-playing-cards-from-1890s

£25,000 cut off point seems crazy high? He says:

"Why do you need more money than the average deck of cards project?
Unfortunately, this is mainly to do with the digitalisation of the cards. I can't stress how much hard work goes into doing this whereas on a normal deck of cards, you can submit your artwork ready to go. These cards are so old and worn and there are very few remaining. We have to be super careful in this process."

To clarify: he is saying it costs less and is easier to design an entire new deck completely from scratch than to scan in an old one and clean up the files? REALLY?

The goal is crazy-high, and the decks are too expensive for anyone outside the UK.  I hate to say this since it is an attractive deck, but this project has FAIL stamped across it in big red letters...

[Sovereign]

Thanks for shifting this over Don.

Good point. However, when I asked USPCC about the Apollo deck and if they had any plans to print it they said they had no plans and that's when I asked if I could make a Kickstarter to help fund not only printing the decks, but also scanning in all designs etc. I love these cards and that is why I want to try and get them back in print but that does cost a lot of money. I do get what your saying though.

I would have thought that a petition to USPCC where you get commitment to buy from X number of people would be enough to get them to do it - they only need an indication that it will be profitable because they have the resources to execute it, whereas Kickstarter is for people who *don't* have the resources to bring their vision to life. Do you have a cost breakdown? How much do USPCC want to reproduce the decks? Do you have any control over the release - essentially USPCC retain the copyright and can just print whatever copies they want of it - I guess my main issue is: in what sense you have any ownership of the project.

[Don Boyer]

Thanks for shifting this over Don.

Good point. However, when I asked USPCC about the Apollo deck and if they had any plans to print it they said they had no plans and that's when I asked if I could make a Kickstarter to help fund not only printing the decks, but also scanning in all designs etc. I love these cards and that is why I want to try and get them back in print but that does cost a lot of money. I do get what your saying though.

I would have thought that a petition to USPCC where you get commitment to buy from X number of people would be enough to get them to do it - they only need an indication that it will be profitable because they have the resources to execute it, whereas Kickstarter is for people who *don't* have the resources to bring their vision to life. Do you have a cost breakdown? How much do USPCC want to reproduce the decks? Do you have any control over the release - essentially USPCC retain the copyright and can just print whatever copies they want of it - I guess my main issue is: in what sense you have any ownership of the project.

He would have ownership to the same extent that Lee Asher "owns" the Fournier 605 (a variant of their 505 deck), Dan and Dave "own" the Steamboats or New Fan Backs that they reprinted recently, or Ellusionist "owns" the Masters deck - basically a Rider Back with a new Ace of Spades and better stock/finish.  If someone is willing to put up the cash and do their own clean-up work, USPC will happily print one of their own brands that's either a variant or no longer in print.  Most of these designs are old enough that they're not even covered under copyright law any more - USPC tries to protect the most important ones (i.e., the ones still in print today) as trademarks, where different laws apply.  Any of USPC's designs from before the 1920s has an expired copyright and can't be renewed.

His biggest problem is he wants to do clean-up work on a deck that he doesn't own and he has no scans of it he can work with.  Honestly, this isn't a severe problem - someone out there must own it and would be willing to have it scanned.  The faces can actually be done from images out of USPC's archives, except perhaps the joker and Ace of Spades - even back then there were standard faces in use across many brand lines.  The most important thing he would need would be the back, joker and AoS.  And perhaps a tuck box, if he wants to reproduce that.

[Sovereign]

It just feels a bit weird: the high cost, the whole kickstarter without even a sample deck, the school video that doesn't feel like £25k hinges on it. I think that a breakdown of the cost and clarification of the agreement with USPCC would settle it a bit more in my brain, but the good news is that my brain is not an important component in this KS project.

Phill

[Don Boyer]

It just feels a bit weird: the high cost, the whole kickstarter without even a sample deck, the school video that doesn't feel like £25k hinges on it. I think that a breakdown of the cost and clarification of the agreement with USPCC would settle it a bit more in my brain, but the good news is that my brain is not an important component in this KS project.

Phill

The kid's trying to swim the rapids upstream.  Ain't gonna happen.

[Rob Wright]

It just feels a bit weird: the high cost, the whole kickstarter without even a sample deck, the school video that doesn't feel like £25k hinges on it. I think that a breakdown of the cost and clarification of the agreement with USPCC would settle it a bit more in my brain, but the good news is that my brain is not an important component in this KS project.

Phill

A custom deck order from USPCC is about $8,000 + 40hours at $75 per hour/$3,000 = $11,000 +shipping packages +fees from KS/Amazon- does not = £25,000(about $40,000US)

[Don Boyer]

It just feels a bit weird: the high cost, the whole kickstarter without even a sample deck, the school video that doesn't feel like £25k hinges on it. I think that a breakdown of the cost and clarification of the agreement with USPCC would settle it a bit more in my brain, but the good news is that my brain is not an important component in this KS project.

Phill

A custom deck order from USPCC is about $8,000 + 40hours at $75 per hour/$3,000 = $11,000 +shipping packages +fees from KS/Amazon- does not = £25,000(about $40,000US)

He has the "Name of the Wind Disease."  People contract it when they see how much cash that deck raked in and their eyes glaze over, the pupils turning into little dollar (or pound sterling) symbols, the gears in their head grinding to try creating the idea for the next great wunderdeck...