Wanted Dead or Alive - Bicycle Wild West Playing Card Deck (KS)

[Rob Wright]

http://kck.st/14r7Jdt

Yah! Another great photoshop deck 

 
Project by: Vincent Tran
First created
$8,000CAD goal, 2 different color decks!
Red Deck is $12CAD each, Limited Edition White Deck $20CAD each + $8CAD for shipping outside Canada   

[Maskedfreakinabox]

I don't know, I kind of like the design, but i don't love it. It also seems to carry the stench of a failed project. I'm very skeptical of the way he's set up his kickstarter based on his rewards options, his ridiculous choice to advertise an $8,000 funding goal and I'm sorry, but the white edition of that deck $20. Not by a long shot.  Also, not entirely sure how much I like that back just yet. Its just as pleasing as it is off-putting.

[Don Boyer]

Y'know, I could have imagined much worse than this.  While the level of work is a bit on the simple side (looks like a good deal of patterns with some cut-n-pasted photos), when you look at the whole thing together, you see that not only did it take a lot of time to lay it out right, but it doesn't look half bad.

The problem is that you can see he's not an experienced designer, at least not of playing cards.  The color pattern on the courts is downright boring - even USPC standard decks have four-color courts.  (You could argue it's a style choice, but I get the feeling that isn't the case here; it was just simpler.)  There's no way on Earth he's going to be allowed to place his indices that close to the cut-edge of the card - half of his decks at least will end up with cut-off indices.  I think the skull on the deck back looks a little off because of his choice of illuminating the inside of one eye socket and not the other.  And while we're on the topic, why a skull?  There's nothing else going on in the deck that supports such a prominent design element - he could have chosen a shield, an eagle, or another of the nearly countless symbols of America and its values that existed in that time.  He also used the wrong version of the American flag in the background - it looks like a modern 50-state flag, which didn't come into existence until Alaska and Hawaii became states in the 1950's, over a half-century after the end of the days of the Wild West.

With more work, this could be a fun deck.  In this state, I don't think it's enough.  I think he saw the Federal 52 concept and thought he could make a deck "just like that" using a slightly different theme, the Wild West.  But there's not enough originality and not enough effort.

[Fred]

Yeah the indices are an obvious problem and really needs to be addressed. With regards to the low funding goal, it's actually not that ridiculous. It's not 2 decks, USPCC only needs to print 1 design. The 'limited' version simply has a different tuck box design (Which i assume would cost somewhere in the low hundreds on top of the minimum cost of 2,500 decks, as USPCC simply outsources the tuck boxes and thus there is no official minimum threshold).

The color pattern on the courts is downright boring - even USPC standard decks have four-color courts.  (You could argue it's a style choice, but I get the feeling that isn't the case here; it was just simpler.)

I strongly disagree here Don. It is very evident, at least to me, that the colour scheme in this case is completely a stylistic choice. Sure, standard decks have more colour, but you can't judge a deck's effort on the amount of colour there is..) The standard bike courts have no form of shading whatsoever, whereas the colours here are in different shades and the execution isnt bad at all. In fact, i would argue that the courts would lose much of its elegance if DIFFERENT colours were introduced, though i would like a bit more differentiation between the red and black courts.

Personally i would, as always, prefer the implementation of thin borders.

I'm in for 1 of each at the early bird level of $22 CAD+ 5$ int. shipping. (only if he changes the indices)

[Rob Wright]

Y'know, I could have imagined much worse than this.  While the level of work is a bit on the simple side (looks like a good deal of patterns with some cut-n-pasted photos), when you look at the whole thing together, you see that not only did it take a lot of time to lay it out right, but it doesn't look half bad.

The problem is that you can see he's not an experienced designer, at least not of playing cards.  The color pattern on the courts is downright boring - even USPC standard decks have four-color courts.  (You could argue it's a style choice, but I get the feeling that isn't the case here; it was just simpler.)  There's no way on Earth he's going to be allowed to place his indices that close to the cut-edge of the card - half of his decks at least will end up with cut-off indices.  I think the skull on the deck back looks a little off because of his choice of illuminating the inside of one eye socket and not the other.  And while we're on the topic, why a skull?  There's nothing else going on in the deck that supports such a prominent design element - he could have chosen a shield, an eagle, or another of the nearly countless symbols of America and its values that existed in that time.  He also used the wrong version of the American flag in the background - it looks like a modern 50-state flag, which didn't come into existence until Alaska and Hawaii became states in the 1950's, over a half-century after the end of the days of the Wild West.

With more work, this could be a fun deck.  In this state, I don't think it's enough.  I think he saw the Federal 52 concept and thought he could make a deck "just like that" using a slightly different theme, the Wild West.  But there's not enough originality and not enough effort.

I agree that its not bad. I kind of like the back, and 10 spade. I also like the framing and flowers on the courts. The court bodies and heads are hideous to me. Even the Tuck looks pretty good.  At $20 for a deck it should be perfect.

Yeah the indices are an obvious problem and really needs to be addressed. With regards to the low funding goal, it's actually not that ridiculous. It's not 2 decks, USPCC only needs to print 1 design. The 'limited' version simply has a different tuck box design (Which i assume would cost somewhere in the low hundreds on top of the minimum cost of 2,500 decks, as USPCC simply outsources the tuck boxes and thus there is no official minimum threshold).

He has a white and a red uncut sheet listed. Either he is trying to fool a lot of people, or there is 2 different decks.
I was told by USPCC, even if it is only a different color back, still another 2500 decks

[ronyo_faukx]

Y'know, I could have imagined much worse than this.  While the level of work is a bit on the simple side (looks like a good deal of patterns with some cut-n-pasted photos), when you look at the whole thing together, you see that not only did it take a lot of time to lay it out right, but it doesn't look half bad.

The problem is that you can see he's not an experienced designer, at least not of playing cards.  The color pattern on the courts is downright boring - even USPC standard decks have four-color courts.  (You could argue it's a style choice, but I get the feeling that isn't the case here; it was just simpler.)  There's no way on Earth he's going to be allowed to place his indices that close to the cut-edge of the card - half of his decks at least will end up with cut-off indices.  I think the skull on the deck back looks a little off because of his choice of illuminating the inside of one eye socket and not the other.  And while we're on the topic, why a skull?  There's nothing else going on in the deck that supports such a prominent design element - he could have chosen a shield, an eagle, or another of the nearly countless symbols of America and its values that existed in that time.  He also used the wrong version of the American flag in the background - it looks like a modern 50-state flag, which didn't come into existence until Alaska and Hawaii became states in the 1950's, over a half-century after the end of the days of the Wild West.

With more work, this could be a fun deck.  In this state, I don't think it's enough.  I think he saw the Federal 52 concept and thought he could make a deck "just like that" using a slightly different theme, the Wild West.  But there's not enough originality and not enough effort.

I think you're right about trying to leech off of the popularity of of the Fed 52s. In addition, (at least in terms of the white edition), it seems he's aiming for the 'block printed' look hence the style and limited colour palette used.

@Maskedfreakinabox: I also agree with you that the White version should not be so much more expensive, especially considering my earlier point about the limited palette. The Red version will use both red and black for printing, but from the looks of things, the White version will only be using black (even on the Hearts and Diamonds).

Finally, a couple of points I think should be noted. Pledges are done directly through KS, probably the currency is CAD$, and the guy is a website designer. His website can be visited via the link on the page. I have nothing against him with regard to his job, but he used quite a few stock images you might find included on a website in a synergy/management presentation. Kinda shoddy for a guy who's currently 'between jobs'.

I'm gonna fence sit on this one. Low goal and lots of immediately available, varying rewards (ceramic poker chips, 'antique' silver coin and an art book) giving me a weird, uncomfortable feeling.

If you like the look of the cards, set a reminder or pledge the CAD$10 for the Early Bird, to stay on top of the updates. See if it evolves into a real popular project.

[Don Boyer]

I agree that its not bad. I kind of like the back, and 10 spade. I also like the framing and flowers on the courts. The court bodies and heads are hideous to me. Even the Tuck looks pretty good.  At $20 for a deck it should be perfect.

$20 a deck for the white?!?  This guy's insane!

I do NOT like that faded background image of the card back in the middle of the ten of spades.  At least be original and include a Wild West image that ISN'T already on the card back.

The color pattern on the courts is downright boring - even USPC standard decks have four-color courts.  (You could argue it's a style choice, but I get the feeling that isn't the case here; it was just simpler.)

I strongly disagree here Don. It is very evident, at least to me, that the colour scheme in this case is completely a stylistic choice. Sure, standard decks have more colour, but you can't judge a deck's effort on the amount of colour there is..) The standard bike courts have no form of shading whatsoever, whereas the colours here are in different shades and the execution isnt bad at all. In fact, i would argue that the courts would lose much of its elegance if DIFFERENT colours were introduced, though i would like a bit more differentiation between the red and black courts.

Personally i would, as always, prefer the implementation of thin borders.

I'm in for 1 of each at the early bird level of $22 CAD+ 5$ int. shipping. (only if he changes the indices)

OK, even if it is a style choice, this deck has enough strikes against it.  And as far as those indices go, it's pretty obvious that he hasn't taken this to USPC first for vetting.  No way would they permit it, and even if they did, they certainly wouldn't accept responsibility for the results.  They focus more on the registration of the card backs than the fronts, since an off-center back is a one-way back.  For them, the faces need only be "close enough".

Y'know, I could have imagined much worse than this.  While the level of work is a bit on the simple side (looks like a good deal of patterns with some cut-n-pasted photos), when you look at the whole thing together, you see that not only did it take a lot of time to lay it out right, but it doesn't look half bad.

The problem is that you can see he's not an experienced designer, at least not of playing cards.  The color pattern on the courts is downright boring - even USPC standard decks have four-color courts.  (You could argue it's a style choice, but I get the feeling that isn't the case here; it was just simpler.)  There's no way on Earth he's going to be allowed to place his indices that close to the cut-edge of the card - half of his decks at least will end up with cut-off indices.  I think the skull on the deck back looks a little off because of his choice of illuminating the inside of one eye socket and not the other.  And while we're on the topic, why a skull?  There's nothing else going on in the deck that supports such a prominent design element - he could have chosen a shield, an eagle, or another of the nearly countless symbols of America and its values that existed in that time.  He also used the wrong version of the American flag in the background - it looks like a modern 50-state flag, which didn't come into existence until Alaska and Hawaii became states in the 1950's, over a half-century after the end of the days of the Wild West.

With more work, this could be a fun deck.  In this state, I don't think it's enough.  I think he saw the Federal 52 concept and thought he could make a deck "just like that" using a slightly different theme, the Wild West.  But there's not enough originality and not enough effort.

I agree that its not bad. I kind of like the back, and 10 spade. I also like the framing and flowers on the courts. The court bodies and heads are hideous to me. Even the Tuck looks pretty good.  At $20 for a deck it should be perfect.

Yeah the indices are an obvious problem and really needs to be addressed. With regards to the low funding goal, it's actually not that ridiculous. It's not 2 decks, USPCC only needs to print 1 design. The 'limited' version simply has a different tuck box design (Which i assume would cost somewhere in the low hundreds on top of the minimum cost of 2,500 decks, as USPCC simply outsources the tuck boxes and thus there is no official minimum threshold).

He has a white and a red uncut sheet listed. Either he is trying to fool a lot of people, or there is 2 different decks.
I was told by USPCC, even if it is only a different color back, still another 2500 decks

That's the standard - it's what they've set for other decks that came in more than one color.  They're considered separate orders, though if you ask, they might cut you a small price break if they have identical faces, meaning they could use the same front plates for both jobs.

I just took another look at his project, and I'm seeing red flags EVERYWHERE.  Expensive decks, low goal, two colors (meaning two print jobs, not just one) - this guy has to be pulling his numbers out of his ass.  If this thing barely crosses the threshold, it's not going to go anywhere near as planned.  I wouldn't say "scam" but I would say "guy who doesn't realize what he's doing."

Seeing that, I would not touch this project, not in its present state.  Most people can't even make ONE deck with a 2,500 print run work for that price, never mind two.  The only way I can see that working is if Canadian postal services are insanely cheap compared to the US

I just did a little math over at canadapost.ca and the news is bad for this project.  I roughed out the dimensions and weight for a single package containing two decks of cards and some packing materials.  To deliver within the same postal code in Toronto, the cheapest rate was $8.75 by Regular Parcel, arrival in two days.  Change the destination to a postal code in Vancouver and the price jumps to $13.43 with an arrival time of seven days.  Dropping the weight to one deck with packing material, it's still $13.43.  Damn, Canadian mail is expensive!  I send a package down the block or across the country, I pay the same thing - it just takes longer for the far-away places.

Point being, this guy has no idea what he's in for.  Or there's a cheaper postal rate that isn't showing up on the website.  Shipping just a single red deck could cost him more in shipping than he takes in, never mind printing cost, packing material cost or KS/Amazon's vig.  Even at two decks, full price, he's not making much.  The white decks are actually more realistic for what his costs would be, and that's damned expensive for a pack of playing cards.

[Vincent]

Hi Everyone!

I have just launched my first playing card deck at Kickstarter.com called Wanted Dead or Alive
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/276605862/wanted-dead-or-alive-bicycle-wild-west-playing-car

Please check it out and let me know what you think!
Regards,
Vincent

[Nurul]

Dude -------> http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/wanted-dead-or-alive-bicycle-wild-west-playing-card-deck-(ks)/

I've always wanted to do that lol

[Rob Wright]

 Marcel S about 16 hours ago 

Vincent, your goal is way too low for two USPCC decks. Are you supplementing this goal with another source of funding?
Love your design, and would love to see this project realized!

Creator Vincent Tran about 16 hours ago 

Hi Marcel,

Thank you so much for the support! This being my first Kickstarter campaign, I wanted to set a goal I felt had a better chance of succeeding. I hope enough people will like my work, thus leading to future projects.
 

  Mr. Tran did not answer the question. 
I'm not going to add a $1 on this project, just so I can comment. So if you are reading these forums Mr. Tran, I hope you realize that 2 decks from USPCC is around $14-15,000 + shipping all this stuff out + all that other crap your trying to sell as add ons. I hope you have some deep pockets.

[ronyo_faukx]

 Marcel S about 16 hours ago 

Vincent, your goal is way too low for two USPCC decks. Are you supplementing this goal with another source of funding?
Love your design, and would love to see this project realized!

Creator Vincent Tran about 16 hours ago 

Hi Marcel,

Thank you so much for the support! This being my first Kickstarter campaign, I wanted to set a goal I felt had a better chance of succeeding. I hope enough people will like my work, thus leading to future projects.
 

  Mr. Tran did not answer the question. 
I'm not going to add a $1 on this project, just so I can comment. So if you are reading these forums Mr. Tran, I hope you realize that 2 decks from USPCC is around $14-15,000 + shipping all this stuff out + all that other crap your trying to sell as add ons. I hope you have some deep pockets.

After careful consideration and listening to the points you and Don have made, I have decided NOT to back this project, but I hope him all the best for his future projects.

[Don Boyer]

Merging the topics now.

Vincent, you'll want to read this topic carefully.  We are not being mean - we are rather passionate about custom playing cards.  Sift through what was said, take some advice, ask for some advice.  Only you can decide which advice...

[Don Boyer]

   Mr. Tran did not answer the question. 
I'm not going to add a $1 on this project, just so I can comment. So if you are reading these forums Mr. Tran, I hope you realize that 2 decks from USPCC is around $14-15,000 + shipping all this stuff out + all that other crap your trying to sell as add ons. I hope you have some deep pockets.

Mr. Tran is here now, as Vincent.

I wholeheartedly agree - Vincent, if you're reading this, and if your project doesn't have additional private funds beyond what you're trying to raise here, CANCEL YOUR PROJECT NOW.  If you reach your goal, there is virtually no way you'll be able to fulfill your pledges without going DEEP into your own pockets.

Kickstarter projects are serious commitments.  Don't just guess at the numbers - make a spreadsheet, look at ALL possible costs, leave no stone unturned looking for anything that will cost you money.  These numbers you've provided are laughably low for the ambitious reach of your project - even if you "succeed", you'll end up failing.

[Rob Wright]

Vincent, you'll want to read this topic carefully.  We are not being mean - we are rather passionate about custom playing cards.  Sift through what was said, take some advice, ask for some advice.  Only you can decide which advice...

Don is absolutely right. Some of the comments may seem mean, but the truth is we like to be honest. There are a lot of great peoples here that know a lot about cards, and are more than willing to help if you ask.

As a backer on over 30 card projects. I do not want to see anybody fail. Unfortunately there have been several projects that have failed after they were funded. That only hurts future projects. A lot of people have lost trust in KS projects. I suggest you look at the Army Men project. Read about 100 of the comments.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/onefreehour/bicycle-army-men-playing-cards-deck

Also look at this one- Founders Playing Cards

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dodsr/founders-playing-cards/comments


+1 to brownmagician- for proper use of the word Dude

[JacksonRobinson]

I just got here but was skimming through the posts and noticed that shipping cost were being warned about.

For what it is worth Vincent, shipping is the most overlooked element to kickstarter decks. You will, with %100 absolute surety spend more than %16 of you total raised pledge fund on shipping and shipping supplies. What ever you have calculated it will be more than that. I spent hours calculating shipping cost for the Fed 52 and it was more than that in the end.

I'm nearing the end of the Fed 52 part I shipping and I have spent close to $27,000 on shipping alone. My advice would be to charge for shipping what shipping is going to cost you, on your scales. People will rag you all day about shipping being to high or that they can ship the same thing for cheaper. The only figure that should matter to you is the price that your scale spits out when your posting the package.

lol just for practice send 1 deck to Australia ($11 for me)
try sending a uncut sheet and a few decks in a tube to Russia (Boom $36)
and strangely Italy and France are the absolute most expensive countries to send to, at least from Texas. I would rather send decks to Siberia than to France. (Sorry my fellow French people nothing against you, the USPS just sucks)

Miscalculating shipping will = failure.

Also, (and I know it has been mentioned) an $8,000 pledge goal for 2 back designs is about $8000 to short, and that doesn't even include shipping.

The cheapest cards stock with the least amount of bells and whistles will cost you $8000 and thats just for 2500 decks or so. No seal at all or finish upgrades.

[xela]

You'll lose the most money on shipping for low pledges and super big pledges.

For example, shipping 2 gross + 10 uncut sheets would cost hundreds of dollars internationally. Shipping ONE deck internationally will cost $8-10 which is the cost of the deck itself.

[Rob Wright]

Not sure if it was us, but he canceled funding due to low goal- plans to re-launch with higher goal.

[Don Boyer]

Not sure if it was us, but he canceled funding due to low goal- plans to re-launch with higher goal.

Glad to see that he has common sense, if not business sense.

[ronyo_faukx]

Not sure if it was us, but he canceled funding due to low goal- plans to re-launch with higher goal.

Glad to see that he has common sense, if not business sense.

Agreed. I may have had a hand in it too. I cancelled my pledge, and gave him a hammering in my description as to why I was cancelling.

I'm terrible, please don't whip me too hard. 

[Fred]

Project has been relaunched: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/276605862/wanted-dead-or-alive-bicycle-wild-west-playing-car-0?ref=live

Minor design improvements/fixes.

Im not liking the drastically more expensive 'limited version'-but-same-deck-just-altered-tuck-box trend. Pricing is ridiculous and does not seem consistent. E.g. Why would it cost $1 extra to international ship a limited deck than a 'normal' deck? Seems primarily monetary based (Obviously all projects are, but this one really forces it down your throat).

Personally, i pledged for 1 red deck to enjoy the ride.

[jmrock]

Wow, don't know what to say other than what a second rate knockoff style deck just wishing it were a Federal 52 Deck... Trying so hard to mimic the artistry of placing faces of previously well known characters from history where the Kings & Queens should go... And did no one notice that the pips seem very similar to Fed 52 as well?  Perhaps if there were no standard to hold these to, there might be a different opinion, but I believe it falls far short...

[Don Boyer]

Here's what I'm seeing.

He's gone from producing two decks to a single deck in two different tucks, one rare.  OK, step in the right direction, sort of.

In scaling back the project, he nearly tripled the goal.  Wha?

The design points that were bones of contention before are pretty much the same as the previous project.

To summarize: this guy knows not what he does.  He took the advice that will make the project not sink under its own weight financially, but took it too far and made no other noteworthy improvements.  His shipping does seem a little random, as noted, and I don't think he adequate accounts for the cost of using Canada Post.  I'm nearly certain he still hasn't approached USPC about getting this deck produced - if he did, those faces would have more of a border than they do now, or at least the indices would no longer be in that border.

Projects like this make me glad that I stopped buying new cards.

[Collector]

People, you are soooo good-tempered