The Gaff System: New Artifice Gaff Deck by Ellusionist

[Card Player]

The #GaffSystem. Peek into their creative process. http://www.ellusionist.com/gaff-system-madison-morelli-jones.html

Madison
Morelli
Jones

[Nurul]

Ahhh lovely I love the artifice series, to get these guys creating a gaff deck for it, you know it's gona be good I look forward to it

[Don Boyer]

This is long overdue.  They're decided a while back that Artifice was going to be their go-to deck; no other deck they have comes in the same number of varieties.  It was only a matter of time before they finally did this.  I'd also be interested in seeing strippers, Svengalis, etc.

[Card Player]

This is long overdue.  They're decided a while back that Artifice was going to be their go-to deck; no other deck they have comes in the same number of varieties.  It was only a matter of time before they finally did this.  I'd also be interested in seeing strippers, Svengalis, etc.

Yep, I always said the Artifice was the Ellusionist (E) go-to-deck. Based on the video, I only see Blue v1, Green/Blue v2 & Purple v3 being worked with for this project. No Red Artifice, No Black and No Tundra.

Because of the different variations of Artifice already produced, I would say creating another version of Artifice to go along with the Gaff Deck would be overkill at this point. Had E never created Black or Tundra I would have welcomed the Idea of a Red v2. I also would have welcomed a colored White Artifice in Red or Gold w/ v2 faces to contrast the bordered v2 Blue/Green. I'm just wondering if E is adding anything new to the Gaff deck that might require another standard Artifice to be printed? Your thoughts...

[Don Boyer]

My thoughts, not having yet seen the video, is that they'll make the gaffs for their basic decks - v2 blue and green.  Technically, they don't consider purple to be v3 - it's just another deck, just as the Artifice Tundra is.  It's possible they'll include Tundra and purple, but I doubt sincerely they'd make it for v1 blue - the deck is out of print, just like the v1 red.  Now that I think of it, even purple is an unlikely choice - which version of purple would they use?  Purple had one pip style in the initial release and now has a different pip style.  Everyone who "invested" in first edition purple would be pretty miffed, despite it now technically being an out of print style.

Oh, and no gaffs for Black Club, either.  It's too bloody rare right now.  At best we might see a stray gaff card or two for it in one of the "regular" gaff decks.  Most likely appearance would be as a two-color double-backer.

And no, they won't make a v2 red without people getting all feisty about how they promised they'd never make a v2 red to "preserve the value" of the v1 red.  Personally, I can't see how it would affect the value at all - it's like saying the value of Black Ghost First Edition is somehow diminished by the creation of the Second Edition.  There's no correlation between the two.

The big question for me is, "Will they make a separate deck for each color, or a single deck with a few colors in it?"  On the one hand, getting separate decks means that people can have more gaff decks to choose from, but on the other hand, making one deck covering two or three colors might boost the sales of those colors.  The little question for me is, "Will they create a new gaff DVD for this?"  I'm thinking yes.  They could have attempted shoe-horning in enough gaffs from the Army of 52 DVD to let that suffice, but this is a fresh opportunity for them, and this deck will likely have some gaffs you've never seen before, thanks to the creative team working on it.  So yeah, new DVD.  And this time they won't have USPC forcing them to change the decks because of altered Rider backs - they did that for Black Tiger, Bicycle and both Ghost decks.  I have some of the old gaff decks and the new Black Tiger ones - the BTs have new cards that aren't on the Army of 52 DVD or in the other decks to replace those with altered backs.

[Card Player]

My thoughts, not having yet seen the video, is that they'll make the gaffs for their basic decks - v2 blue and green.  Technically, they don't consider purple to be v3 - it's just another deck, just as the Artifice Tundra is.  It's possible they'll include Tundra and purple, but I doubt sincerely they'd make it for v1 blue - the deck is out of print, just like the v1 red.  Now that I think of it, even purple is an unlikely choice - which version of purple would they use?  Purple had one pip style in the initial release and now has a different pip style.  Everyone who "invested" in first edition purple would be pretty miffed, despite it now technically being an out of print style.

Oh, and no gaffs for Black Club, either.  It's too bloody rare right now.  At best we might see a stray gaff card or two for it in one of the "regular" gaff decks.  Most likely appearance would be as a two-color double-backer.

And no, they won't make a v2 red without people getting all feisty about how they promised they'd never make a v2 red to "preserve the value" of the v1 red.  Personally, I can't see how it would affect the value at all - it's like saying the value of Black Ghost First Edition is somehow diminished by the creation of the Second Edition.  There's no correlation between the two.

The big question for me is, "Will they make a separate deck for each color, or a single deck with a few colors in it?"  On the one hand, getting separate decks means that people can have more gaff decks to choose from, but on the other hand, making one deck covering two or three colors might boost the sales of those colors.  The little question for me is, "Will they create a new gaff DVD for this?"  I'm thinking yes.  They could have attempted shoe-horning in enough gaffs from the Army of 52 DVD to let that suffice, but this is a fresh opportunity for them, and this deck will likely have some gaffs you've never seen before, thanks to the creative team working on it.  So yeah, new DVD.  And this time they won't have USPC forcing them to change the decks because of altered Rider backs - they did that for Black Tiger, Bicycle and both Ghost decks.  I have some of the old gaff decks and the new Black Tiger ones - the BTs have new cards that aren't on the Army of 52 DVD or in the other decks to replace those with altered backs.

The DVD and Gaff would be a great idea and most likely what E is doing. They are calling it a Gaff "System" not just a deck. Makes allot of sense.

I DON'T see E producing one for each particular version. Its most likely ONE multipurpose Gaff deck. Its just financially more efficient for E rather then spend 3x the money to produce other versions. One Gaff deck also gives purchasers of the Gaff deck incentive to buy a version of Artifice that they might not own just to use a particular Gaff trick.

Its funny Madison starts the teaser video with "I don't like Gaff playing cards".

and still doesn't like Gaff playing cards.

[Marcus]

(Shouldn't really be necessary but considering my history with the company I'll just clarify that these are all guesses and opinions from me personally.  )

The black and red Artifice decks can be counted out right away. They won't make a gaff deck that assumes you have a deck that is limited and isn't available for regular purchase. Doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. Like Don said they might at most include a double backer for a color change, but that's it.

They count the blue v1 and v2 as the same deck, just different versions. Therefore, my guess is that they'll include the blue bordered, the green and the purple one. A 3-split. The video was most likely shot a while ago, my guess is it was too close to the release of the Tundra so I'll guess that one is out of the picture. As for which print version of the purple one they'll use - well, they'll use the one that was active at that time. I don't know when they changed it, but I'll put my money on the newer one.

(While I agree with Don about a red 2nd edition not cheapening the value of the first one, IF they make enough changes to it. There needs to be at least something separating the two, just like with the BG decks. Though this is a whole other topic and I highly doubt we'll ever see a 2nd version.)

I reckon these will have no alterations at all to the backs considering USPCC's legal department having tightened everything up. If these become a success (and with Calen, Eric and DM involved I expect nothing less), I'd expect to see these gaffs or versions of them for the other decks as well.

I'll be getting this DVD and gaff deck (of course they'll make a DVD) for sure. Not only because I've loved the Artifice series from the start but also because I love these guys' material in general.

[Don Boyer]

I reckon these will have no alterations at all to the backs considering USPCC's legal department having tightened everything up. If these become a success (and with Calen, Eric and DM involved I expect nothing less), I'd expect to see these gaffs or versions of them for the other decks as well.

The restriction on back alterations only applies to USPC's designs created by themselves, not by others.  They don't own the rights to the Artifice back, Ellusionist does.  So Ellusionist can freely make whatever changes they please.

Now that I've seen the video, it's clear that they're only making gaffs for blue v2, green and purple.  In all likelihood they will be separate decks, much like the ones E made before.  While it costs three times as much to make, someone who wants to perform with all three colors will have to buy three separate decks, making more money for E - especially when you factor in the hefty premium they charge for a gaff deck that costs no more for USPC to make.  Not to say that it doesn't cost E a few bucks for commissioning the designers behind it, but I believe that they make far more than that on each gaff deck.  However, compared to the cost of individual gaff cards, it's a real bargain.

[Marcus]

The restriction on back alterations only applies to USPC's designs created by themselves, not by others.  They don't own the rights to the Artifice back, Ellusionist does.  So Ellusionist can freely make whatever changes they please.

Of course E owns the rights to their designs, but my point is that much like they've done in the past with gaffs, they'll want to port the work to their other decks if it becomes a success and that won't work for the Shadow Masters, Ghosts or Black Tigers due to the Rider Backs on those. Sure, they could swap those gaffs out for others but at the very least I'm expecting less gaffed back designs compared to earlier decks.

Now that I've seen the video, it's clear that they're only making gaffs for blue v2, green and purple.  In all likelihood they will be separate decks, much like the ones E made before.  While it costs three times as much to make, someone who wants to perform with all three colors will have to buy three separate decks, making more money for E - especially when you factor in the hefty premium they charge for a gaff deck that costs no more for USPC to make.  Not to say that it doesn't cost E a few bucks for commissioning the designers behind it, but I believe that they make far more than that on each gaff deck.  However, compared to the cost of individual gaff cards, it's a real bargain.

My money's on one gaff deck with the three colors represented, kind of how they did with the Black Tiger gaff which is a little bit of both. Either way I'm looking forward to seeing which way they took.

[KPopFever605]

This deck is going to be AWESOME! Although it sucks that they've waited until the series was six decks deep, I'm still excited for the trio to come out with something spectacular.

[Don Boyer]

The restriction on back alterations only applies to USPC's designs created by themselves, not by others.  They don't own the rights to the Artifice back, Ellusionist does.  So Ellusionist can freely make whatever changes they please.

Of course E owns the rights to their designs, but my point is that much like they've done in the past with gaffs, they'll want to port the work to their other decks if it becomes a success and that won't work for the Shadow Masters, Ghosts or Black Tigers due to the Rider Backs on those. Sure, they could swap those gaffs out for others but at the very least I'm expecting less gaffed back designs compared to earlier decks.

Now that I've seen the video, it's clear that they're only making gaffs for blue v2, green and purple.  In all likelihood they will be separate decks, much like the ones E made before.  While it costs three times as much to make, someone who wants to perform with all three colors will have to buy three separate decks, making more money for E - especially when you factor in the hefty premium they charge for a gaff deck that costs no more for USPC to make.  Not to say that it doesn't cost E a few bucks for commissioning the designers behind it, but I believe that they make far more than that on each gaff deck.  However, compared to the cost of individual gaff cards, it's a real bargain.

My money's on one gaff deck with the three colors represented, kind of how they did with the Black Tiger gaff which is a little bit of both. Either way I'm looking forward to seeing which way they took.

Re back designs, they really haven't done much of anything with a Rider Back on it since Arcane, and I don't imagine they'd go back to it.  Plus many of the decks you mentioned already have gaff decks - I don't think they'd make a second one.  If they were to expand this line at all, I could see them either covering the Artifice Tundra/"Ghost" deck or possibly going into the Madison decks.

I'm not completely certain on this, but I think the newest printing of the Black Tiger deck doesn't have gaffs specifically for the all-white deck, since it was released around the same time they were discontinuing that deck.  Of course, any black-suited gaff would be suitable for either deck.

While they may have two designs with a single gaff deck in the past for the Black Tigers, I'd consider that an exception, owing largely to the fact that the two decks have 50% of their cards in common with each other - more if you count the jokers.  Bicycle and Arcane both had two different decks, one for each color, and the Ghost deck was never made in a Black Ghost version.  I could easily imagine them making separate decks for each color, if for no other reason that they would a) stand to make more money, b) have more gaffs in any single color than would be the case otherwise and c) please those customers who only like one or two of the colors, to whom the extra color(s) would be wasted cards - a gaff deck is expensive enough without having cards you won't use in it.  As a savings measure, they'd certainly have identical gaffs in each deck, letting them create a single DVD (or set) to cover the gaffs for anyone using any deck or decks.  I could even picture a deal for getting all three with the disc.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!  (Of course, this is all guesswork.)

I'm very curious to see what gaffs will come from the mind of someone who hates gaff cards...

[Marcus]

Re back designs, they really haven't done much of anything with a Rider Back on it since Arcane, and I don't imagine they'd go back to it.  Plus many of the decks you mentioned already have gaff decks - I don't think they'd make a second one.  If they were to expand this line at all, I could see them either covering the Artifice Tundra/"Ghost" deck or possibly going into the Madison decks.

I don't think they plan to go back to using Rider Backs considering the USPCC legal team and their restrictions. But the fact remains that the Black Tigers, the Ghosts etc are still selling so they won't stop printing them, and then they might want to have gaffs for them as well. And yes, they do already have gaff decks for them right now, but I don't think the USPCC would allow for new print-runs of those gaff decks because of the altered back designs on some of them. So when they run out of decks, they'll either have to come up with new gaffs or discontinue the gaff cards.

I don't think we'll see the Ultragaff back in print either, for a few reasons: the cards have a lot of gaffed backs, and they were created by Danny and Wayne meaning royalty payments. I doubt USPCC would allow a new print-run, so E would have to create a few new cards and then the royalty payments would have to be changed with new contracts I'm guessing etc.

And if they discontinue the Ultragaff and can't print the existing versions of the Ghost and Black Tiger (or regular red/blue Rider Back) gaffs they'd need to create new ones. Plus, they're due for an update soon.

Depending on how the Artifice Tundra and Madison decks are selling they'd most likely look at gaffs for those as well in the future, but if they can take the whole concept of the gaffs from this new one with minor changes, it's an easy task and they could easily do both.

I'm not completely certain on this, but I think the newest printing of the Black Tiger deck doesn't have gaffs specifically for the all-white deck, since it was released around the same time they were discontinuing that deck.  Of course, any black-suited gaff would be suitable for either deck.

This I don't know - haven't checked out that deck for quite a while now.

While they may have two designs with a single gaff deck in the past for the Black Tigers, I'd consider that an exception, owing largely to the fact that the two decks have 50% of their cards in common with each other - more if you count the jokers.  Bicycle and Arcane both had two different decks, one for each color, and the Ghost deck was never made in a Black Ghost version.  I could easily imagine them making separate decks for each color, if for no other reason that they would a) stand to make more money, b) have more gaffs in any single color than would be the case otherwise and c) please those customers who only like one or two of the colors, to whom the extra color(s) would be wasted cards - a gaff deck is expensive enough without having cards you won't use in it.  As a savings measure, they'd certainly have identical gaffs in each deck, letting them create a single DVD (or set) to cover the gaffs for anyone using any deck or decks.  I could even picture a deal for getting all three with the disc.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!  (Of course, this is all guesswork.)

I'm very curious to see what gaffs will come from the mind of someone who hates gaff cards...

I'm certainly not saying that your guesses are bad, quite the opposite. Three gaff decks would make perfect sense. I just trust my gut feeling on this one, and it says one deck with all three. I'll bring out the comfort food and the "I told you so" sign for the day of the release, just to cover all bases. 

[Don Boyer]

I don't think they plan to go back to using Rider Backs considering the USPCC legal team and their restrictions. But the fact remains that the Black Tigers, the Ghosts etc are still selling so they won't stop printing them, and then they might want to have gaffs for them as well. And yes, they do already have gaff decks for them right now, but I don't think the USPCC would allow for new print-runs of those gaff decks because of the altered back designs on some of them. So when they run out of decks, they'll either have to come up with new gaffs or discontinue the gaff cards.

I don't think we'll see the Ultragaff back in print either, for a few reasons: the cards have a lot of gaffed backs, and they were created by Danny and Wayne meaning royalty payments. I doubt USPCC would allow a new print-run, so E would have to create a few new cards and then the royalty payments would have to be changed with new contracts I'm guessing etc.

And if they discontinue the Ultragaff and can't print the existing versions of the Ghost and Black Tiger (or regular red/blue Rider Back) gaffs they'd need to create new ones. Plus, they're due for an update soon.

Ah, but you may not realize they ALREADY started changing those older gaff decks.  That new Black Tiger gaff deck no longer has any of the gaff cards with altered backs.  I'm thinking that existing stock of the original versions will be permitted to be sold, but that their new print runs will conform to this standard, replacing all the back gaffs with something different.  It's not like they have a choice, right?  The gaff decks for Ghost, Bicycle and Black Tiger were all pretty much identical, hence the creation of only one DVD, "Army of 52", to cover all the gaffs in all those decks (well, most of them - some gaffs you're left to work out on your own).  So whatever changes I found in the new Black Tiger gaff deck will likely be duplicated in the others.

[Card Player]

Depending on how the Artifice Tundra and Madison decks are selling they'd most likely look at gaffs for those as well in the future, but if they can take the whole concept of the gaffs from this new one with minor changes, it's an easy task and they could easily do both.

The Madison decks are selling very well. I think they both sold out of 1st prints for Rounders and Dealers. Madison does not like Gaff decks. I don't see a Gaff deck for any of the Madison decks happening. Probably the only reason Madison is involved in this project is because Ellusionist knows his involvement increases revenue and ensures its success. I see Madison as more of a project manager with this project then anything else.

[Don Boyer]

Depending on how the Artifice Tundra and Madison decks are selling they'd most likely look at gaffs for those as well in the future, but if they can take the whole concept of the gaffs from this new one with minor changes, it's an easy task and they could easily do both.

The Madison decks are selling very well. I think they both sold out of 1st prints for Rounders and Dealers. Madison does not like Gaff decks. I don't see a Gaff deck for any of the Madison decks happening. Probably the only reason Madison is involved in this project is because Ellusionist knows his involvement increases revenue and ensures its success. I see Madison as more of a project manager with this project then anything else.

Well, anything is possible.  Since he's involved with the project, maybe he'll have a change of heart.  Or maybe Artifice was chosen in part because Madison specifically didn't want gaffs for the decks named for him.  Right now, it's all just conjecture.  The one thing I am pretty convinced about is that they're unlikely to create gaff decks based on these for decks that already have gaff decks.

[Xntrix]

Hey Guys,

Thought I'd just pop my head in and see how things are going. Whilst most of the details are still under wraps - more and more will be revealed as the hype machine warms up - there are a couple of things I can clear up straight away.

No Red and No BlackClub. Marcus was correct in saying we're not releasing a gaff deck for decks that were released as Limited Editions. Partly because not everyone wants to open a Limited Edition deck and use it as a regular deck... but mostly because we can't upsell Limited Edition decks to people who buy the Gaffs, and if we can't sell more stuff... why do it, right? Muhahahaha... Seriously though - no Limited Edition deck Gaffs. As far as V2's not affecting prices of V1's - not entirely true. Cost of BlackGhost 1st's used to be in the $600's on ebay in the Bolted Case, (which you could buy for $25) - after the release of the 2nds, that price instantly halved. Smoke and Mirrors used to cost ridiculous amounts - then the S&M Collectors Box (and subsequent reprints) came out - prices tanked there as well. As far as we're concerned - we've done Red, we've moved on.

Daniel Madison does not like Gaffs. Correct - Daniel Madison does not like conventional gaff cards. He's a closet hipster. Gaffs are too Mainstream. Which is why he designed Gaffs that accomplish things he wanted to do with a deck. The sorts of things that leave people with impossible objects or accomplish 'cheating' effects Daniel has previously only dreamt about. No pip matrix crap - just classic Madison with an Artifice coating. Neither Collateral nor Burn - two of Madison's previous Gaff projects - had effects you'd buy in a MagicMakers deck, don't expect anything less just because he's now producing with us. As far as the Gaff System in Rounders or Dealers go - you're probably out of luck. The Madison Decks are Daniel's babies, I don't believe he'd let anyone - even Jones or Morelli - design anything that used them. If a Madison Gaff deck was to come out, it'd be all Daniel Madison... but then again, Daniel Madison does not like Gaffs.

Gaff Decks do not cost more to make then Regular Decks. Actually, this is a falsehood. USPCC are not set up to print Gaff Decks. They print one side of a sheet in CMYK, and the other is Spot printed. As Gaff Decks use a wide variety of colors on both front and back, this causes major headaches for the USPCC pre-press team in aligning cards so that they can be printed with their confounding print setup. As such, each card that differs from the 1/56 Back Design has a premium attached. Add on to that the cost of our designers that spend thousands of more hours designing gaffs instead of one back design, aces, pips and new courts - and the bill steadily increases. What it comes down to is this; Printing a Gaff Deck with USPCC is substantially more costly than a regular deck.

I'll let the rest of the speculation and conjecture continue.

All the best,

-Jake

[Don Boyer]

As usual, Jake, thanks for enlightening us!  I had no idea that USPC charges extra - I can only imagine the conniptions they would go through for a full-color CMYK deck back, especially if each back was a little different, like the Mechanic deck or the Fantastique deck...

[Marcus]

Marcus was correct

I stopped reading here.

On a serious note though, I'm looking forward to this gaff deck. Madison's Anthology contains a few self-created gaff ideas I've liked, so I'm positive he'll have great ideas for this as well. And Calen and Eric are so crazily creative that whatever these guys come up with it'll be good.

Well, anything is possible.  Since he's involved with the project, maybe he'll have a change of heart.  Or maybe Artifice was chosen in part because Madison specifically didn't want gaffs for the decks named for him.  Right now, it's all just conjecture.  The one thing I am pretty convinced about is that they're unlikely to create gaff decks based on these for decks that already have gaff decks.

And that's the one thing I'm pretty convinced they'll do sometime in the future, for reasons stated earlier. 

[Card Player]

Quote from: Xntrix on Yesterday at 06:34:11 PM

I'll let the rest of the speculation and conjecture continue.

Yup... Its all good. I was going to comment the last time you came here and denounced the existence of scarlet rounders. I could not figure out for the life of me why someone from Ellusionist would attempt to deflate speculation of an existing product. It only helps to have us buzzing about it.

Well, anything is possible.  Since he's involved with the project, maybe he'll have a change of heart.  Or maybe Artifice was chosen in part because Madison specifically didn't want gaffs for the decks named for him.  Right now, it's all just conjecture.  The one thing I am pretty convinced about is that they're unlikely to create gaff decks based on these for decks that already have gaff decks.

And that's the one thing I'm pretty convinced they'll do sometime in the future, for reasons stated earlier. 

Keep dreaming! Not something I ever wish to see.

Madison has gotten very lovey dovey on Twitter. He now tweets about products I never thought I'd see him plug or endorse. I hope he stays true to no gaffs and "protects his babies".

[Marcus]

Yup... Its all good. I was going to comment the last time you came here and denounced the existence of scarlet rounders. I could not figure out for the life of me why someone from Ellusionist would attempt to deflate speculation of an existing product. It only helps to have us buzzing about it.

From what I remember he chose his words very carefully that time. I know because I've been guilty of doing the same thing.

Keep dreaming! Not something I ever wish to see.

Madison has gotten very lovey dovey on Twitter. He now tweets about products I never thought I'd see him plug or endorse. I hope he stays true to no gaffs and "protects his babies".

Actually, the "I don't like gaffs" is not exactly who he's been. I'm sure he's not a huge fan of the gaffs Jake mentioned (pip matrix, "Wow, the back of the card now says "Sexy" on it" gaffs etc) but his Anthology collection and other releases have included gaffs (though you would need to create them on your own) at times. Not just the conventional gaffs.

And while I can see reasons for you to not want to get one or use one yourself, I cannot see any reason to hope that it is never done at all. I wouldn't mind seeing one produced if that was something they saw a future in despite the fact that I hardly ever even use cards anymore. A gaff deck with gambling demo approach to some of them could be cool.

But this Madison discussion is getting off topic and that's no place to be this late at night. Who knows what evil lurks out there?

So. Gaff system. Why the mile-long teasing? I am part of the instant gratification generation, I want to see what it is right now, Jake. Do it or I'll have the Queen take back Australia just to mess with you guys.

[Card Player]

Yup... Its all good. I was going to comment the last time you came here and denounced the existence of scarlet rounders. I could not figure out for the life of me why someone from Ellusionist would attempt to deflate speculation of an existing product. It only helps to have us buzzing about it.

From what I remember he chose his words very carefully that time. I know because I've been guilty of doing the same thing.

Your right. He did choose his words carefully but only a select few of us were actually able to decipher through that. In that example, he could have not wrote what he wrote at all. In this case its all good. We know the Gaff System is an existing product about to be released and he is clearing up information about that product for us. Its always appreciated having someone from the company post here.

I think initially Jake or Ellusionist had concerns with the community buzzing about scarlet rounders when they had more immediate product releases they needed to sell and promote. He might have been trying to refocus our attention to other "coming soon" products of theirs. Don't know what Jakes philosophy was for it but whatever. We got want we wanted (scarlet rounders).

[Card Player]

2:02 of Revelations 45, PM is using a Scarlet Dealers Gaff Card... Part of The Gaff System, is a Madison Gaff Deck coming OR is this simply PM putting the seal on a Scarlet Dealers back?

You be the judge...

[KPopFever605]

I think it's just a seal placed on the back of a card, because wasn't this the trailer for PM's "Lock, Stock, and Riot"?

[Card Player]

I think it's just a seal placed on the back of a card, because wasn't this the trailer for PM's "Lock, Stock, and Riot"?

Yes, it's from PM's recent DVD release.

[Don Boyer]

I think it's just a seal placed on the back of a card, because wasn't this the trailer for PM's "Lock, Stock, and Riot"?

Yes, it's from PM's recent DVD release.

That would explain why the seal was missing from the tuck box.