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Does this image look familiar?

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Does this image look familiar?
« on: November 19, 2013, 10:45:34 PM »
 

Gohn Smiff

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?????
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 11:50:36 PM by Gohn Smiff »
 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2013, 11:10:14 PM »
 

john

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Holy shit... Is there a way to see when this was uploaded?
"I got my people, watching the corners, letting me know where the bitches are." - Zimos
 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2013, 11:16:11 PM »
 

Gohn Smiff

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« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 11:50:55 PM by Gohn Smiff »
 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2013, 11:19:56 PM »
 

Fred

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What deck is this on..? It looks so familiar...
Alex, stop fucking with my name you phegget. xx
 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2013, 11:20:29 PM »
 

bhong

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Holy shit... Is there a way to see when this was uploaded?

john, there's a date listed under "file type" as "30/04/12" . Honestly, it's a fairly generic kind of design with either an Oriental or floral flare to it.
 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2013, 11:28:00 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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Wha-

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT



It's WAY too similar to be a coincidence. Then again, it could have been designed off the Artifice deck, not visa-versa.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 11:49:45 PM by MrMollusk »
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2013, 11:29:57 PM »
 

Gohn Smiff

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« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 11:49:46 PM by Gohn Smiff »
 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2013, 11:56:51 PM »
 

Gohn Smiff

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« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 12:37:22 AM by Gohn Smiff »
 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2013, 12:37:51 AM »
 

Gohn Smiff

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I have realized that this copyright information might be incriminating against E and may make them look really bad.
Since I respect Ellusionist and their work I have removed the info.
If it is important to you to find this images links again, search "circle vector free" in google images. (scroll a lot)
sorry.
 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2013, 12:44:17 AM »
 

MrMollusk

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...Incriminating?

I love Ellusionist's work too. The Artifice deck is one of my favorite decks for magic, and the man who designed it is exceedingly talented. It's still an interesting find.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 12:44:40 AM by MrMollusk »
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Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2013, 01:20:56 AM »
 

xela

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Ellusionist outsources its art to different designers/companies, just like T11 and D&D. It wouldn't be Ellusionist's fault if it was ripped.
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Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2013, 02:00:41 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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And anyone looking at this could see similarities to a LOT of different things.  By no means are they even close to identical, and there's metric f*cktons of prior art, in this case, folk art, that might make an infringement suit difficult to back up with bulletproof evidence.
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Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2013, 04:15:23 AM »
 

Leif

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I remember when I first started looking into designing my own deck. I had bought the Artifice and Infinity decks earlier and examined them thoroughly. Later, when I was looking for ideas for a back design, I stumbled upon that image. I recognized it immediately as part of the Artifice back. This was about a year ago. I thought it was good to know that even paid designers used stock material in their designs.

I downloaded some of their designs from the same site as that image is taken, I think. I made sure to only take those who had a licence that allowed free commercial usage. That was also the case with that image above. The licence had a different wording then, as far as I can remember.

I thought then, that Lee used the stock image, altered it and made an awesome back design, using it. And he was perfectly in the clear with it.

It was some months later, when someone mentioned (re. some other deck,) stock images in a negative manner, that I understood that it is not generally accepted, or at least not liked, for artists to use stock images. I thought about posting that image to hear your opinion on that kind of usage, but I couldn't find it at the time, it was late, and I was tired. Then I forgot about it.

I think now, if I'm wrong about the licence change, that Lee have obtained rights to use it commercially. Or it could be the other way around, that image is a derivative from the Artifice back. Or, Lee designed it, and let that guy use a slightly altered version.

The Artifice back is still an awesome back design, stock or no stock.

I could be totally wrong about all this. Maybe deck collectors love stock design. Maybe Lee is the one running that site.  Maybe the similarities is pure coincidence.

For me, personally, I have no problem with stock images on decks. In fact, If they look awesome like Artifice, I say: Bring em on!


 
 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2013, 06:31:14 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Honestly speaking, you couldn't call the Artifice deck one that was made with a stock image.  If you examine the two images closely, you can see many subtle differences.  This type of pattern has been a staple in design for hundreds of years and both designs are just two more variations on the theme, that's all.  You could find thousands if not tens of thousands more designs that are similar while at the same time are far from identical.  I'm far more inclined to believe that the Artifice back is something that was thought of independently, perhaps with some thematic influence, but certain not with any genuine-article copying going on.

I see the back of the Artifice deck, I'm reminded of late-19th century wallpapers and wall fixtures or metal objects with ornate scroll engravings, such as fancy pocket watches, guns, railings, frames, etc.  I see the other design that was posted, I'm reminded of Pennsylvania Dutch farms, many of which have similar designs painted on them.

Gohn Smiff - why'd you go and delete everything you posted?  It's like listening to a phone call from one end rather than a conversation.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 06:33:41 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2013, 07:25:23 AM »
 

Leif

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Honestly speaking, you couldn't call the Artifice deck one that was made with a stock image.  If you examine the two images closely, you can see many subtle differences.  This type of pattern has been a staple in design for hundreds of years and both designs are just two more variations on the theme, that's all.  You could find thousands if not tens of thousands more designs that are similar while at the same time are far from identical.  I'm far more inclined to believe that the Artifice back is something that was thought of independently, perhaps with some thematic influence, but certain not with any genuine-article copying going on.


I see the back of the Artifice deck, I'm reminded of late-19th century wallpapers and wall fixtures or metal objects with ornate scroll engravings, such as fancy pocket watches, guns, railings, frames, etc.  I see the other design that was posted, I'm reminded of Pennsylvania Dutch farms, many of which have similar designs painted on them.

Gohn Smiff - why'd you go and delete everything you posted?  It's like listening to a phone call from one end rather than a conversation.

I agree, there is a lot of differences between the designs. On the other hand, there is far too many likenesses for it to be an coincidence. My guess is that they both used a similar, genuine, traditional 19th century design. Therefore, they arrived at the similar, but different designs.

But, I have a question to you all. If Lee should come on here and say that he indeed did use that other image as a template for his own design, but that he obtained the rights to do so, would that be such a bad thing? It is still a beautiful back.
I see stock images used daily, from the same faces in different ads to the same graphics in different TV programmes. And the Wilhelm scream has been in over 200 films.

I'm asking because I want to know what the general collectors opinion on this matter is, so that I don't make any mistakes with my deck.

 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2013, 08:31:52 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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But, I have a question to you all. If Lee should come on here and say that he indeed did use that other image as a template for his own design, but that he obtained the rights to do so, would that be such a bad thing? It is still a beautiful back.
I see stock images used daily, from the same faces in different ads to the same graphics in different TV programmes. And the Wilhelm scream has been in over 200 films.

I'm asking because I want to know what the general collectors opinion on this matter is, so that I don't make any mistakes with my deck.

Well, there's pre-existing art, and there's clip art.  Clip art belongs in a PowerPoint presentation, not on a deck of cards.  If only Bill Merz would figure that out...  :))

I think in the case you're thinking of, the project creator made no effort to reveal who the artist was or that the art wasn't his own, in essence taking the credit for the art by omission rather than give credit to the artist.  That's what had people up in arms.  It's not unheard of for someone to use another artist's work, either pre-existing or project-specific.

If you used someone else's art and made it openly known from the start, I couldn't imagine anyone complaining too hard, particularly if you have the rights secured.  It might be prudent to have it removed from the website you found it on, though - leaving a deck's art on the net before it gets published can result in someone else "borrowing" the art and beating your deck to the market, as happened with Emmanuel Jose and the Curator Deck.

The Wilhelm scream...  That "recycled sound" tradition had actually waned until George Lucas used it in "Star Wars".  Steven Spielberg picked up the torch from there and it started to skyrocket in use, particularly in blockbuster films.  It's become sort of a sound editors' inside joke.
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Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2013, 08:57:05 AM »
 

John B.

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really wish I knew what the pics were, you should have left them. Artifice decks are awesome. One of my favs.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2013, 11:27:34 AM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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Very interesting. Would be curious to hear the story of this one. The Artifice is a beautiful design and who knows what borrowed from what, but I took a moment to overlay these things and other than the very middle they are pretty much identical. It's very possible that the person who made the "clipart" simply copied it from the cards.
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Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2013, 01:28:10 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Very interesting. Would be curious to hear the story of this one. The Artifice is a beautiful design and who knows what borrowed from what, but I took a moment to overlay these things and other than the very middle they are pretty much identical. It's very possible that the person who made the "clipart" simply copied it from the cards.

Now that I see your overlay, yeah - that's spot on.  Now it's just a matter of which came first, the chicken or the egg...
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Re: Does this image look familiar?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2013, 03:13:40 PM »
 

Leif

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Very interesting. Would be curious to hear the story of this one. The Artifice is a beautiful design and who knows what borrowed from what, but I took a moment to overlay these things and other than the very middle they are pretty much identical. It's very possible that the person who made the "clipart" simply copied it from the cards.

Oops, that's more likeness than I remember. It sure seems to be the same source.