Kickstarter Question for Past Designers

[Lukeout]

I'm preparing my first deck for Kickstarter in January. I'll be posting more here about it shortly (I just found this forum yesterday!). I've been looking at all the KS campaigns, and all the non-deck offerings that seem to go along with playing card decks. I've done 5 Kickstarters to date, 4 games with friends, and a kids book with my wife, and I prefer to just focus on the key product - the decks.

My deck isn't painterly (more like a clever mix of two iconic genres). I couldn't imagine anyone wanting a print or an uncut sheet, but then again, I've never made a playing card deck before. I'm just trying to get a handle on if I should offer a bunch of other things or just focus on decks. I figure by focusing, delivery and production will be more straight forward, but I don't want my campaign to look too sparse.

Any of you past publishers or backers have any insight into the value of all the extra-type offerings? Worth doing?

Thanks everyone,
Luke

[Emmanuel]

Luke, I haven't launched anything on Kickstarter yet, but uncut sheets and prints are highly desirable to backers and collectors. Having your art available in more than one form will make your campaign that much more appealing to people with different tastes.

[Rob Wright]

If you are getting the cards printed by USPC, then the uncuts are really cheap-$5-6 I think, and you only have to order 5 I believe. If you only sell that many. It still helps out by bringing more interest to the project. Also there are a lot of online companies that do the card cover coins. Those are a little more tricky. You have to sell at least 50 to make your nut. The price of the coins aren't bad- it's the set up fees. The biggest two things- Use a good printer, and don't undercut you funding goal. A lot of people will only buy USPC decks. It's a rarity if I buy anything else anymore.
Good Luck.

[Lukeout]

Our plan is definitely to use USPC - they seem like the gold star standard and they have made it pretty easy for Kickstarter folks to work with them.

Sounds like I should at least add the uncut sheets as an option. It can't hurt too much as I think I'd only have move 7 or 8 to break even after KS fees and shipping. It'll be more like a customer service option than a revenue generator. I should be posting more info about the deck this week, maybe I'll just ask folks here if they would rather have a print or an uncut sheet (we have one piece of art that is silly fun that I think people would like to have on a T-shirt, but I don't want to be in the T-shirt business).

[Emmanuel]

If uncut sheets are ordered, the minimum that USPCC makes is 25 sheets. There's no maximum.

[sprouts1115]

Just remember the minimum for USPCC is 25 at $5.00 a piece.  The tube should be 24" in length.  Uncut sheets are 21 ⅞" x 26 x ⅜".  I've heard you can get a 24"x 4" tube and pack 10 decks maximum inside the tube, but you have to use a whole lot of bubble wrap so the decks don't slide around and damage the uncut sheet.  http://www.uline.com/BL_3653/Kraft-Tubes

[Don Boyer]

Our plan is definitely to use USPC - they seem like the gold star standard and they have made it pretty easy for Kickstarter folks to work with them.

Sounds like I should at least add the uncut sheets as an option. It can't hurt too much as I think I'd only have move 7 or 8 to break even after KS fees and shipping. It'll be more like a customer service option than a revenue generator. I should be posting more info about the deck this week, maybe I'll just ask folks here if they would rather have a print or an uncut sheet (we have one piece of art that is silly fun that I think people would like to have on a T-shirt, but I don't want to be in the T-shirt business).

These days, for a custom deck, uncuts are practically mandatory.  Keep the numbers strictly limited and price them right - you'll actually make a few hundred in profit to move the project forward.

Prints are nice - but make them real art, not something off the inkjet in the home office!

Other currently popular add-ons are poker chips (either a "one-of-each" set or a full-blown poker kit), coins/card guards and dice.  T-shirts come up now and then as well, but you can hold off and make them a stretch goal if you see the deck is popular enough.

DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, turn your project into a flea market offering a zillion tchochkes, and, oh yeah, we have this deck of cards, too...  Too much chaff, not enough wheat.

[Lukeout]

Good advice (and I am totally in-line with NOT making it a flea market). I'm going to add 25 signed/numbered sheets for each of the two decks. Strictly limited. I also decided to make both decks limited editions rather than have 1 limited and 1 unlimited. I'll probably pass on the poker chips, but I might add a hand silk-screened T-shirt (which I assume will sell better to gamers than card collectors). Not sure if I'll do the K of Hearts or the Ace of Spades that we've been tweaking lately.

[Don Boyer]

Good advice (and I am totally in-line with NOT making it a flea market). I'm going to add 25 signed/numbered sheets for each of the two decks. Strictly limited. I also decided to make both decks limited editions rather than have 1 limited and 1 unlimited. I'll probably pass on the poker chips, but I might add a hand silk-screened T-shirt (which I assume will sell better to gamers than card collectors). Not sure if I'll do the K of Hearts or the Ace of Spades that we've been tweaking lately.

I would leave in the "one limited, one unlimited" thing.  Limiting both decks restricts future options.  What happens if your project is a runaway success and you run out of decks?  With an unlimited deck, you can simply increase your print run.  Without, you'd either have to make a third color or watch your project stall to a halt, out of fuel.

You should refine your explanation of unlimited for your backers.  It doesn't mean you're making an unlimited amount of them, just that you're not setting a top limit on the print run until your project closes and you know the full demand.  Ironically, I know of at least one project that make a limited and an unlimited deck where the unlimited deck was actually made in SMALLER quantities.  As an unlimited deck, the creator could in theory make more, there are no plans to at the moment and it's unlikely to occur.

[Lukeout]

I'm going to add 25 signed/numbered sheets for each of the two decks. Strictly limited. I also decided to make both decks limited editions rather than have 1 limited and 1 unlimited. 

What happens if your project is a runaway success and you run out of decks? 

I throw a party and work on another idea! 

Seriously though, I have no problem selling out and creating a bit of a collectable in the case of a runaway hit.

My goals might be a bit different than other people who run these projects. I just want to make great projects that people love. I'm not terribly concerned with selling the maximum number of decks, particularly if that comes with lots of additional hassles. Those hassles could get in the way of me working on more projects!  I'd find it much more satisfying to make $1K each in profit from 5 projects than $5K from one project if that make sense. I know the 5-projects path is a lot more work, but with that work comes a lot of satisfactoin.

[Don Boyer]

I'm going to add 25 signed/numbered sheets for each of the two decks. Strictly limited. I also decided to make both decks limited editions rather than have 1 limited and 1 unlimited. 

What happens if your project is a runaway success and you run out of decks? 

I throw a party and work on another idea! 

Seriously though, I have no problem selling out and creating a bit of a collectable in the case of a runaway hit.

My goals might be a bit different than other people who run these projects. I just want to make great projects that people love. I'm not terribly concerned with selling the maximum number of decks, particularly if that comes with lots of additional hassles. Those hassles could get in the way of me working on more projects!  I'd find it much more satisfying to make $1K each in profit from 5 projects than $5K from one project if that make sense. I know the 5-projects path is a lot more work, but with that work comes a lot of satisfactoin.

In that, Luke, you are one unique individual...    It's just hard to ignore runaway successes like Jackson Robinson or Tyler Deeb - they made enough money on their decks that they we able to make major positive changes in their lives.  Jackson was able to move back home to Texas while Tyler was able to quit his day job and work solely in graphic design from his home.  There's something to be said about being able to do things like that.

You prefer making $1,000 each on five projects over making $5,000 in a single project.  Well, in that case, what if you were making $5,000 or $10,000 each on those same five projects?  Or even $100,000?  That's roughly what Albino Dragon was doing while Shane Tyree was on board as their designer.  Imagine being able to do what you love the most AND making enough money at it to support a decent lifestyle without a second job?  You can't put a value on that kind of happiness.

[Lukeout]

You bring up excellent points. I guess I look at what I'm trying to do as a little different. With these projects (like the children's book I published through KS last year with my wife and niece), I'm not really motivated by money. I am motivated by the the idea of products I can be proud of and happy customers.

I have worked at companies with big hits before. I was a Brand Manager at Wizards of the Coast during the Pokemon days - where we once printed over 1 billion (with a "B") cards in a single month! I've learned that big successes, while they can bring in lots of cash, often derail non-money life goals. I once witnessed one of the best creatives I've ever known turn into Human Resource managers because their company was "so successful."  (no offense to HR managers intended!)

All that said, I am super happy for folks who launch a great project, make lots of cash, and can leave to do what they want with their lives. That is a GREAT success story and something they should be very proud of!

[Don Boyer]

You bring up excellent points. I guess I look at what I'm trying to do as a little different. With these projects (like the children's book I published through KS last year with my wife and niece), I'm not really motivated by money. I am motivated by the the idea of products I can be proud of and happy customers.

I have worked at companies with big hits before. I was a Brand Manager at Wizards of the Coast during the Pokemon days - where we once printed over 1 billion (with a "B") cards in a single month! I've learned that big successes, while they can bring in lots of cash, often derail non-money life goals. I once witnessed one of the best creatives I've ever known turn into Human Resource managers because their company was "so successful."  (no offense to HR managers intended!)

All that said, I am super happy for folks who launch a great project, make lots of cash, and can leave to do what they want with their lives. That is a GREAT success story and something they should be very proud of!

I'm merely pointing out that a successful project and personal satisfaction both at and outside of work are not mutually exclusive.  You can have both, if you do it right and remember the balance between the two.  And perhaps that "creative" you know of is really happier as HR - you never know.

[MrMollusk]

If you want some more insight on Kickstarter, I'd give this thread a look.

http://aethercards.com/discourse/design-development/my-take-on-using-kickstarter/msg74598/#msg74598

[JacksonRobinson]

Appologies for coming a little late to the party.

In terms of  "extra add ons" you really just have to look at the kind of project you want to run. Sometimes creators will start throwing in a ton of "stuff" just to try and generate more momentum when in fact it really hurts their project. I think if you have any add ons they should point back to and focus the attention on the meat of your project, the decks.

I also think it is good practice to keep you add on list very short (eg. Uncuts) until you have reached your funding goal. That way you know that you flagship product is solid enough to support the whole house.

Another HUGE thing that I think a lot of creators miss out on is getting the backers envoled and talking to each other and others.  Alot of people will disagree with me on this point, but that is ok, it works for me and those poeple usually have never ran a kickstarter before.

I think it is very important to let your backers be a tangible part of your project. You should NOT design the entire deck before hand. This factor is one of the biggest wet blankets out their.

When you do this your project is new and exciting for 1 or 2 days then for the rest of the project people see nothing but crap getting released. Give them new art to look at and re fall in love with you project. Take a look at all of the card projects you will find that 9 times out of 10 their success is tied to how many comments the project has. If people aren't talking to each other and you then your project, it will be a long uphill battle for you.

I realize that mentality doesn't fit for everybodies project. I don't see the current METROPOL NOX deck project coming out with new art.

[Sovereign]

I was going to say I disagreed with Jackson and that I wouldn't want to invest in a project that was an unknown in any regards, then I thought about how much my Kickstarter did and then how much his did and I thought "You know what, shut up." and I did. 

Phill

[Don Boyer]

I was going to say I disagreed with Jackson and that I wouldn't want to invest in a project that was an unknown in any regards, then I thought about how much my Kickstarter did and then how much his did and I thought "You know what, shut up." and I did. 

Phill

Smart move, bro!    It was worth a good laugh!

[Paul.Middleton]

Another HUGE thing that I think a lot of creators miss out on is getting the backers envoled and talking to each other and others.  Alot of people will disagree with me on this point, but that is ok, it works for me and those poeple usually have never ran a kickstarter before. I think it is very important to let your backers be a tangible part of your project. You should NOT design the entire deck before hand. This factor is one of the biggest wet blankets out their.

Couldn't agree more. As a backer of very few projects (playing cards or otherwise) those that have kept mine or someone in our family's attention tend to be by project starters who are engaging and interacting with their backers. The best example of this was a gadget I backed a few weeks back, which had more backers than Jackson's or any other card project (to the best of my knowledge, anyway), yet the designer took the time to send me a message saying thank you for backing his project. I'm not personally aware of any apps that can be used on Kickstarter to automate jobs like this, but it was a nice touch and an average of 1 update per working day was posted with plenty of requests for feedback and discussion starters.

[JacksonRobinson]

I was going to say I disagreed with Jackson and that I wouldn't want to invest in a project that was an unknown in any regards, then I thought about how much my Kickstarter did and then how much his did and I thought "You know what, shut up." and I did. 

Phill

I think your are right in curtain situations. On my first Fed project I got scrutinized very hard and almost everyone that I came in contact with said "watch out for a scam" which I think is totally appropriate.

If you encounter a project that doesn't have all the work done you should be hyper vigilant about you backing and your money. You should also take a look at the creators evolvement and transparency. If they don't have the work done and they are not interacting with backers, STAY AWAY. Thats why I made a big deal out of the comments section of a project. The more a creator gets involved the more they put themselves on the line.

With in the first 7 days of the Fed 52 part 2 there was over 1500 comments, that wasn't because I released fridge magnets, it was because people were talking and I was talking with them.

Side note: My "crew" has a huge role in fueling the fire and momentum of my projects, and I think it would benefit any project to take a similar approach.

The first thing I do before backing any card project is I look at how many comments they have and then if I see the bright yellow "creator" highlight and avatar in the comments section. If I don't see either one of those I pass by and give them some more time to prove themselves and stick their neck out there.

[Lukeout]

Engaging is a great idea. I've done some of that on this forum as I think the opinions here are (from a creative standpoint), flipping' fantastic. The signal to noise ratio on this board is the highest I've ever seen.

Interacting with backers live is good - certainly when answering questions. Might be a little tough for me on my project to interact in real time on the creative of the deck due to the fact that it's almost more "concept" than "art", but I'm going to try!
 

[Don Boyer]

Engaging is a great idea. I've done some of that on this forum as I think the opinions here are (from a creative standpoint), flipping' fantastic. The signal to noise ratio on this board is the highest I've ever seen.

I'm glad to hear that - I strive hard to create that kind of environment, and the quality of the people here helps make that job more of a cakewalk.  I only wish more deck project creators, be they on KS or somewhere else (or even privately funded) would come here FIRST and get a free primer on how to get things done right from day one.  The people who drive this board are knowledgeable and willing to share!  And now that we've been acquired by Tom Dawson, things are looking too bright even for my 'shades.  I might need blast shielding!