Gatorback Riders from David Blaine

[Don Boyer]

Funny how they knew to order more Kings before the first decks were ever sold. Why would E pay more per deck by having 2 separate prints. Or was it that USPCC got them printed in a week after E sold out? Doubtful

If being sold out and then more arriving 1 week later is a sales ploy, then it was not planned out very well. I suspected something was not right when E announced they were sold out in days. You notice when companies sell out for real, nothing is mentioned. They just sell out.

You could be correct in that it was a "planned shortage" - or it could even be as simple as getting part of a shipment sent before the rest in order for USPC to meet their contracted deadline with E and E being willing to "play ball" rather than make a stink.

And there's umpteen other possible explanations.  We'll never really know unless someone who knows, tells.

I'm just eagerly awaiting the next release of the Gatorbacks - and damned curious about how Blaine plans to sell them this time around...

[Card Player]

Funny how they knew to order more Kings before the first decks were ever sold. Why would E pay more per deck by having 2 separate prints. Or was it that USPCC got them printed in a week after E sold out? Doubtful

If being sold out and then more arriving 1 week later is a sales ploy, then it was not planned out very well. I suspected something was not right when E announced they were sold out in days. You notice when companies sell out for real, nothing is mentioned. They just sell out.

You could be correct in that it was a "planned shortage" - or it could even be as simple as getting part of a shipment sent before the rest in order for USPC to meet their contracted deadline with E and E being willing to "play ball" rather than make a stink.

And there's umpteen other possible explanations.  We'll never really know unless someone who knows, tells.

I'm just eagerly awaiting the next release of the Gatorbacks - and damned curious about how Blaine plans to sell them this time around...

Yes, the upcoming Blaine release(s) will be interesting. Might he have 2 decks on his next release (black lions)? I suppose getting Red Gatorbacks on its own Black Friday is a possibility.

[aldazar]

...the GatorBacks look best in Green simply due to the nature of the subject (the same way the Imps look best in red due to the subject)....

+1

"Rainbows" are the problem for those collectors who want have all decks in their collection but with really different courts. They have their right to criticize the "rainbow" approach in modern playing card production. But I noticed more irony in this thread than anger, actually. Which is good as it shows that the forum's residents are mainly realists.

I personally feel that neither collectors (nor anyone else) have the "right" to criticise designers for releasing multiple colors - it's not a money grab unless they somehow coerce you into buying stuff you don't actually want, imo... If you have a problem/compulsion that drives you to collect every single color/variation released (I sort of do =P), then the only person you have a "right" to criticise is yourself!

I think it's nonsensical/silly to criticise designers for "forcing" you or grabbing your money against your will by releasing multiple colors... It's totally the collector's call as to whether to buy or not to buy each color! If it makes you mad, that's a bit weird, but just don't buy it then! No need to criticise... If the market will bear it (ie enough people buy them to cover costs and maybe make some profit), then generally speaking they made the right call...

My two cents... Sorry if they're not well written - I'm super sleepy right now...=P

[Collector]

I don't think Blaine is going to do every color in the rainbow. 4 is a good number.

“Rainbow” and “rainbow approach” were exaggerated names I meant classic red-blue-green-black(-white-silver-gold) combinations.

...the GatorBacks look best in Green simply due to the nature of the subject (the same way the Imps look best in red due to the subject)....

+1

"Rainbows" are the problem for those collectors who want have all decks in their collection but with really different courts. They have their right to criticize the "rainbow" approach in modern playing card production. But I noticed more irony in this thread than anger, actually. Which is good as it shows that the forum's residents are mainly realists.

I personally feel that neither collectors (nor anyone else) have the "right" to criticise designers for releasing multiple colors - it's not a money grab unless they somehow coerce you into buying stuff you don't actually want, imo... If you have a problem/compulsion that drives you to collect every single color/variation released (I sort of do =P), then the only person you have a "right" to criticise is yourself!

I think it's nonsensical/silly to criticise designers for "forcing" you or grabbing your money against your will by releasing multiple colors... It's totally the collector's call as to whether to buy or not to buy each color! If it makes you mad, that's a bit weird, but just don't buy it then! No need to criticise... If the market will bear it (ie enough people buy them to cover costs and maybe make some profit), then generally speaking they made the right call...

My two cents... Sorry if they're not well written - I'm super sleepy right now...=P

Actually it's well written. And in some way your are right. But I can't agree with you completely.

First of all, everyone can/should  criticise everyone... but in respectful manner and without such approach as "I say, you do".

Second, let me be a little bit more general - all modern producers of almost all goods say that they don't force people to buy their production. But it isn't true. Otherwise, who invented neuromarketing and why (any marketing, actually). "Satisfy people's needs" was the main slogan of marketing some years ago. It isn't interesting these days. The modern one is "Create needs for people and convince them in such needs". Playing card producers aren't sharks in this approach but they apply some elements from it. So, they are "forcing" The main thing here is the correct estimation of possibilities of customers. Otherwise, you can overdo it and get some opposite result.

I think Blaine is far from overdoing it. Many people will really like four basic colours of backs (red-blue-green-black). Also he doesn't do anything new. All his previous decks had the same colours, I think.

[Nurul]

Has anyone found out anymore secrets about this deck then?

[Card Player]

Has anyone found out anymore secrets about this deck then?

Here is what I have found. Feel free to add to it and lets keep this list going.

Secrets Of The Gatorbacks List:
1. No. 127 represents the DoB of David's daughter (January 27th) 1/27.

2. The object on the inside tuck and brick box is called an "astronomical clock".

3. The phrase "L'illusion est le premier plaisir" on the clock is French for “illusion is the first of all pleasures” from Voltaire (1694-1778) the French Enlightenment writer, historian and philosopher.

A Theory: It was suggested by me that the heart where the roman numeral VI (6) should be, is a reveal. However, as small and as dark as the clock is on the inside of the tuck, it would be very difficult for a spectator to see. I'm thinking there could be more to the clock and more to the fact, David made us buy a brick first time around. Maybe so that we would recognize the significance of the clock on the brick box?

[Nurul]

Thanks card player.
I knew of the first 3. Never thought that it could be a reveal. As you pointed out, it's pretty hard to see.
Is it true there's a making system then or was that just speculation?

[Don Boyer]

Thanks card player.
I knew of the first 3. Never thought that it could be a reveal. As you pointed out, it's pretty hard to see.
Is it true there's a making system then or was that just speculation?

I'm assuming you meant "marking system."  I don't have the green deck at hand, but I picked up my black deck and went to the movies.  It passes the riffle test - if it's marked, it's exceptionally subtle.

[DarkDerp]

I don't have the green deck at hand, but I picked up my black deck and went to the movies.  It passes the riffle test - if it's marked, it's exceptionally subtle.

You went to the movies with the black deck?

[PurpleIce]

I don't have the green deck at hand, but I picked up my black deck and went to the movies.  It passes the riffle test - if it's marked, it's exceptionally subtle.

You went to the movies with the black deck?

David Blaine wasn't free that day, so he got the next closest thing to accompany him.

[Don Boyer]

You went to the movies with the black deck?

"Going to the movies" is a slang term referring to giving a deck the riffle test to spot markings.  A normal deck when riffled looks normal, no changes from card to card, because the backs are all identical.  A marked deck using plain-light visible markings (the most common form of marking) will be different from card to card and this results in a flickering action taking place when riffled, like a flipbook movie.

When the first Legends decks came out, someone commented here about seeing the flames move in a corner of the card when riffling them.  I did the same test, spotted the markings and had them decoded for suit and value pretty quickly - it used a simple binary code.

If the markings are fine enough and the card back design is busy enough, one could miss the marks.  But it would likely be the case as well that the marks are too hard to read and won't do any potential cheaters any good.  For example, I can read the new Series 1800 marked decks at arm's length, but only with practice.  Because of how well hidden the marks are and the overall faux-ancient look, you'd have a snowball's chance in hell of spotting them in a riffle test.  But if I dealt the cards out at a poker game, I couldn't read them in the other hands to save my life.

An Ultimate Marked Deck or a pack of GT Speedreaders, on the other hand, I could read from across the table - as long as I'm wearing my glasses!  GT Speedreaders, however, are terrible for card cheats - to make the markings harder to spot, they're placed in the wrong corners to be read when a hand is spread and held in front of a player.  You'd be able to identify the rear-most card only.  They're meant more for magicians - you present a right-to-left spread for the spectator, he'll look at he top left corners for the markings, but they'll be in the bottom left relative to him and inverted, making them very challenging to detect but easy-peasy for the magician.

[Card Player]

"Going to the movies" is a slang term referring to giving a deck the riffle test to spot markings.  A normal deck when riffled looks normal, no changes from card to card, because the backs are all identical.  A marked deck using plain-light visible markings (the most common form of marking) will be different from card to card and this results in a flickering action taking place when riffled, like a flipbook movie.

That's interesting. A slang for a slang. A longer and more obscure slang at that.
Do people cringe when you say "hey everyone, lets go to the movies"?


I was wondering if Mark Stuzman had anything to do with Sharps?
If that is the case, then an exceptionally subtle marking for gatorbacks could be feasible.

[HolyJJ]

Card Player, due to the similarity in design style between the sharps and the White Lions, I wouldn't be surprised if Stutzman did do the artwork for the Sharps.

However, the Sharps marking system was possible due to use of special ink from LPCC... and seeing as these are USPCC decks, it may not even be possible for them to achieve that same result.

Saying that though, a marking system using offsets (like the White Lions) is possible. Until the sharps came along, I regarded the white lions marking system as the best. Although an exceptionally keen eye would see the White Lions fail the riffle test, the fail would be nowhere near as huge as it would for decks with blatantly obvious markings such as the Madison Players, Madison Dealers, or the (horribly named!) Ultimate Marked Deck.

[Card Player]

Card Player, due to the similarity in design style between the sharps and the White Lions, I wouldn't be surprised if Stutzman did do the artwork for the Sharps.

However, the Sharps marking system was possible due to use of special ink from LPCC... and seeing as these are USPCC decks, it may not even be possible for them to achieve that same result.

Saying that though, a marking system using offsets (like the White Lions) is possible. Until the sharps came along, I regarded the white lions marking system as the best. Although an exceptionally keen eye would see the White Lions fail the riffle test, the fail would be nowhere near as huge as it would for decks with blatantly obvious markings such as the Madison Players, Madison Dealers, or the (horribly named!) Ultimate Marked Deck.

I love Legends cards... But, When did LPCC surpass USPCC in printing techniques and capabilities? I'm sure if someone wanted to create a deck with a marking system the likes of Sharps at USPCC it would be possible. I believe it has more to do with the innovations of Lawrence Sullivan and William Kalush, wanting to push the boundaries of whats possible.

It does beg the question, If USPCC does have the capabilities to create similar innovations why haven't they yet? An 808 Club Deck release showing USPCC's full custom deck capabilities would answer the call.

[HolyJJ]

I love Legends cards... But, When did LPCC surpass USPCC in printing techniques and capabilities? I'm sure if someone wanted to create a deck with a marking system the likes of Sharps at USPCC it would be possible. I believe it has more to do with the innovations of Lawrence Sullivan and William Kalush, wanting to push the boundaries of whats possible.

It does beg the question, If USPCC does have the capabilities to create similar innovations why haven't they yet? An 808 Club Deck release showing USPCC's full custom deck capabilities would answer the call.

Like everyone else, I'm aware that USPCC have been in the business for donkeys years, and they've enjoyed a long run as the standard setters for the industry... however, I don't buy into any implied suggestion that USPCC are still the gold standard in printing and creating decks, or that they are capable of being the best.

If they had the ability to still be the gold standard, then like yourself bro, I'm totally at sea why they aren't offering the same (or better) quality of cards as EPCC or LPCC. Surely, there HAS to be some companies or independent designers that would want to make use of the best that USPCC can offer.

For starters, the durability of USPCC cards (in comparison to say, the EPCC Exquisites) is not even close. My private reserve Madison Rounders cards (which had the new card stock) were pretty much ready for the dustbin after a week of heavy use. EPCC's Exquisites last 3-4 weeks for me.

The USPCC cutting is horrible -- not as bad as MPC, but still, quite terrible. Edges are still kind of furry.

Registration on USPCC cards... It's so well known how bad it usually is, that I don't think that even needs to be talked about.

So far EPCC and LPCC have been able to offer pretty much everything that USPCC could offer, and that too notably better.

These are just some of the factors why -- despite the wonderful history and success of the company -- I *personally* have very little reason to believe that USPCC are capable of matching their newer competitors.

With HOPC pretty much having switched to EPCC, and more and more talented independent designers choosing to printing with EPCC and LPCC, now really would be a good time for USPCC to step up and show what they can do... assuming that they have anything which can genuinely be great.

David Blaine's cards are always good, and the Gatorbacks are no exception -- largely due to clever design by him and Stutzman. Whoever Blaine prints decks with, it's pretty much a given that they will sell very well. Will he continue to stick with USPCC from now on? Only time will tell... after all, Blaine was said to have had a hand in bringing out the Legends V1, and Blaine's deck for the Microsoft event was printed by EPCC.

[Wilko]

Holy JJ: I agree with everything you just said.

[Don Boyer]

Ditto from me, brother.  USPC is functioning at the level they are because they lost their pride in their products.  They became a division of a megacorp that cares about the bottom line and little else.  They barely invest at all in R&D - in the past three years, Magic Finish/Performance Coating is the only real innovation I've seen.

[Collector]

Ditto from me, brother.  USPC is functioning at the level they are because they lost their pride in their products.  They became a division of a megacorp that cares about the bottom line and little else...

I have to think the same.

[John B.]

I always enjoy having multiple colors, I use them for color changes in magic.

And yea I feel USPCC is on the downhill.

[Fess]

Couldn't agree more. I love color changes too. Variety is the spice of life and keeps things interesting. Without it we'd all be using standard rider backs probably in blue. No one wants that, not that there is anything with a blue deck, just if all it was was blue. We'd all be feeling pretty blue.

USPCC I don't think is going down hill though, the quality of their product can be very nice. It can also be pretty ugly, depends on their Perspective haha.

[aldazar]

Agreed - I like having multiple colors, though not just for color changes - if I really like a design, it's cool to have multiple versions of it - as Fes pointed out, variety is the spice of life!

From what I can see, USPCC is still doing fine now, but I suspect we may be at the tipping point where things will start to go downhill for them as LPCC, EPCC, and maybe some other upstart new entrants really begin to cut into their market share...

I've mixed feelings about this actually... If they fail to adapt and improve, I'll be sad to see a giant fall, but it's definitely good for the market to have competition and the resultant innovation... Kinda reminds of Blackberry/RIM... They were once the king of the smartphone market and really the only option for most serious users, but now they're pretty much out of business because they got complacent and lazy... Sad story because I really loved my many blackberries! Now I'm typing this on an iPhone and the only blackberry I own is issued to me by my employer (and it sucks =P)... Oh well, such is life...

[Don Boyer]

Couldn't agree more. I love color changes too. Variety is the spice of life and keeps things interesting. Without it we'd all be using standard rider backs probably in blue. No one wants that, not that there is anything with a blue deck, just if all it was was blue. We'd all be feeling pretty blue.

USPCC I don't think is going down hill though, the quality of their product can be very nice. It can also be pretty ugly, depends on their Perspective haha.

Man, that was a clunker! 

We'd actually probably be using red Rider Backs.  There are more magic tricks and gaff cards designed for the red Rider Back than any other color/design combination out there - granted, it's anecdotal evidence, but you look through any magic store's inventory and I think you'll be forced to agree.

As far as USPC is concerned, they're never be driven completely out of business, at least not in my lifetime.  They do banging business with casinos all over this continent, though they're probably lagging in other parts of the world, plus their staple brands could run for another century or more as long as they don't completely destroy their quality standards to that of ninety-nine-cent store decks.  Their parent company wouldn't have it any other way, as far as those areas of market share are concerned.

However, their share of the custom market is falling, without a doubt - if this isn't on their radar or doesn't act as a wake-up call, they might as well fold Club 808 now and shutter the Custom Division.  They're attempting to stay relevant but it's an uphill battle for them.  They're too used to "lather, rinse, repeat" in everything they do.  It seems like a lack of pride and little to no motivation to be innovators.  Hard to blame them.  They seem to have been practically sleepwalking before the current wave of custom decks arrived.  The Custom Department was a quiet place, making the occasional corporate promotional deck (the kind of thing that's so facile it could be designed in one's sleep) and it didn't make anywhere near a huge enough amount to rate too much attention at all.  Now, the demand is high, they're struggling to wake up and catch up and the market is beginning to run away from them.  They were so complacent for so long, it seems, that they still haven't wiped all the sleep from their eyes.

I was recently told they're trying to pull off 75 deck designs per month.  With month's having between 20 and 23 weekdays, and factoring in for holidays, that's more than three decks a day, probably even closer to four!  I'm betting that the Legal Dept. has more time to draft the contracts then the Print Dept. has to churn out the decks!  Combine that with the Winter and Summer Shutdowns, where the entire company takes two weeks off at each break, and it's not hard to see how backlogs are created.

OK, enough Ranty McRantypants...  Can we get this steered back to the subject of the Gatorbacks?

[Fess]

I was recently told they're trying to pull off 75 deck designs per month.

That actually explains a lot. The errors we see happening are very likely due to this. I'd say they're doing one hell of a good job.

By the way I agree, they would probably be all red. Red didn't fit the point I was trying to make though, needed Blue haha.

I haven't seen any shots of the Red Gatorbacks tuck yet. Has anyone else? If no, what are the odds he shocks the world and it's Red instead of Black? I don't mean the little gator, I mean the tuck itself.

[shadowkat]

Here is a photo from Chris Chelko's Instagram.

[Don Boyer]

Here is a photo from Chris Chelko's Instagram.

Well, there's the red tuck box - they ARE the droids we're looking for!