Gatorback Riders from David Blaine

[agera94]

390$ starting point. People are crazy =)))))

http://www.ebay.com/itm/David-Blaine-Red-Gator-Backs-Limited-Edition-Only-1000-Ever-Made-/221637860902?pt=UK_Toys_Games_Games&hash=item339aa55e26

I feel like because he doesn't specify it's a pre-order, you could screw him over and teach the seller a lesson about trying to create inflated prices.

[bamabenz]

I too missed out since i was working, but you can still purchase a signed pair for $100, which is less than 250 sterling.

/bama

[PurpleIce]

Well.. I will have to wait for somebody to pity me and sell me some red gators or go to the hell that is EBAY and get cancer out of the prices that we will see....

So mad... 

That was my point a few posts prior. Don't pay reseller prices. Make them sit on the Red Gatorback. I know there are more Red Gatorbacks. Possibly as many as 1,500 to 4,000 more. We will see them again in one form or another. I would advise you wait.

I must be missing it somewhere, but where u get the info that there are more red gatorbacks sitting around somewhere in the Blaine's warehouse?

[aldazar]

Well.. I will have to wait for somebody to pity me and sell me some red gators or go to the hell that is EBAY and get cancer out of the prices that we will see....

So mad... 

That was my point a few posts prior. Don't pay reseller prices. Make them sit on the Red Gatorback. I know there are more Red Gatorbacks. Possibly as many as 1,500 to 4,000 more. We will see them again in one form or another. I would advise you wait.

I must be missing it somewhere, but where u get the info that there are more red gatorbacks sitting around somewhere in the Blaine's warehouse?

My guess is he is going off the assumption that USPCC won't print runs shorter than 5,000?

[Don Boyer]

I guess Red's will not be soon on stock again.

Not from David's shop, anyway, other than the expensive two-deck set.  His sold-out decks don't generally come back, at least not as an individual product.  You might see a collector's set or a Variety Box with some down the road, but they'll be more rare than the cards and a lot more costly.

BTW: what on Earth was the original retail on these?  I never saw it and it's not on the DB site.

Well.. I will have to wait for somebody to pity me and sell me some red gators or go to the hell that is EBAY and get cancer out of the prices that we will see....

So mad... 

That was my point a few posts prior. Don't pay reseller prices. Make them sit on the Red Gatorback. I know there are more Red Gatorbacks. Possibly as many as 1,500 to 4,000 more. We will see them again in one form or another. I would advise you wait.

I must be missing it somewhere, but where u get the info that there are more red gatorbacks sitting around somewhere in the Blaine's warehouse?

My guess is he is going off the assumption that USPCC won't print runs shorter than 5,000?

Actually, the current minimum is 2,500.  They experimented with a 1,000-deck minimum run but it opened a huge can of worms for them and they've since restored the 2,500-deck minimum.  Odds are, David bought the reds primarily for his own use and only let a certain amount go at retail.  Pretty much EVERY design he's released was once a design he used exclusively, and there's often one color he favors over the others.  I think for the White Lions, his preference was black - the Series A decks were never available in black and the gaff cards he released for sale in this design were all red- or blue-backed, sometimes both, but never black.

[Card Player]

Not from David's shop, anyway, other than the expensive two-deck set.  His sold-out decks don't generally come back, at least not as an individual product.  You might see a collector's set or a Variety Box with some down the road, but they'll be more rare than the cards and a lot more costly.

If there was ever a time for David to do a 400 limit collectors box and sell them for $300 each It's now. I would not be surprised if a few AIP bottles were being made as we speak (type).

When I think about the lost opportunity for the David Blaine store of making a nice profit, it's baffling. Look at all the decks David has. Imagine a Black Friday Brick sale. Buy any brick of the same deck, silver split spades, black label lions, black gatorbacks, etc and get 1 red gatorback. Limit 2 bricks per order, 24 hours or until supplies last. $100 a brick x 1000 red gatorbacks = $100,000.00 and many happy customers.

Or how they did it. 1000 red gatorbacks x $15 no limit per order = $15,000.00 and many disappointed customers.

Production cost of each example taken into consideration, example 1 might not be the best profit %. However, it is a profit. It allows more revenue coming in then normal for older product and allows David to free up valuable warehouse space for new products.

[Don Boyer]

If there was ever a time for David to do a 400 limit collectors box and sell them for $300 each It's now. I would not be surprised if a few AIP bottles were being made as we speak (type).

When I think about the lost opportunity for the David Blaine store of making a nice profit, it's baffling. Look at all the decks David has. Imagine a Black Friday Brick sale. Buy any brick of the same deck, silver split spades, black label lions, black gatorbacks, etc and get 1 red gatorback. Limit 2 bricks per order, 24 hours or until supplies last. $100 a brick x 1000 red gatorbacks = $100,000.00 and many happy customers.

Or how they did it. 1000 red gatorbacks x $15 no limit per order = $15,000.00 and many disappointed customers.

Production cost of each example taken into consideration, example 1 might not be the best profit %. However, it is a profit. It allows more revenue coming in then normal for older product and allows David to free up valuable warehouse space for new products.

Valuable warehouse space?  He has so few products out right now!  He moved the warehouse to Connecticut as well, in all likelihood making the rent cheaper.

This entire experience isn't exactly giving his "almost-customers" who got shut out a warm and fuzzy feeling.  I'll grant you it's never possible to own EVERYTHING one would like to, but to have such a limited product sold without a quantity-per-customer limit is simply ridiculous.  When companies run roughshod like this over their fans, they don't stay fans and they go from "almost-customers" to utterly disinterested and indifferent.

[CBJ]

I was able to put an order in at around 4:20pm, but for only 1 deck.





CBJ

[Card Player]

If there was ever a time for David to do a 400 limit collectors box and sell them for $300 each It's now. I would not be surprised if a few AIP bottles were being made as we speak (type).

When I think about the lost opportunity for the David Blaine store of making a nice profit, it's baffling. Look at all the decks David has. Imagine a Black Friday Brick sale. Buy any brick of the same deck, silver split spades, black label lions, black gatorbacks, etc and get 1 red gatorback. Limit 2 bricks per order, 24 hours or until supplies last. $100 a brick x 1000 red gatorbacks = $100,000.00 and many happy customers.

Or how they did it. 1000 red gatorbacks x $15 no limit per order = $15,000.00 and many disappointed customers.

Production cost of each example taken into consideration, example 1 might not be the best profit %. However, it is a profit. It allows more revenue coming in then normal for older product and allows David to free up valuable warehouse space for new products.

Valuable warehouse space?  He has so few products out right now!  He moved the warehouse to Connecticut as well, in all likelihood making the rent cheaper.

This entire experience isn't exactly giving his "almost-customers" who got shut out a warm and fuzzy feeling.  I'll grant you it's never possible to own EVERYTHING one would like to, but to have such a limited product sold without a quantity-per-customer limit is simply ridiculous.  When companies run roughshod like this over their fans, they don't stay fans and they go from "almost-customers" to utterly disinterested and indifferent.

Well yes, Connecticut rent is cheaper then New York, but that does not mean his warehouse is substantial size. I've never been to his warehouse, have you? We can google it and see what its square footage is by satellite image. There is value in storage space? Especially if older excess product is sitting around and not moving very fast out the door.

Off topic: There was a time (about 2 year ago) when I was heavily playing poker at Foxwoods CT on my way home and I was driving along side a man on his motorcycle that looked exactly like David Blaine. I could not help but notice how safely he was driving. We were in traffic and most people I know would be cutting in and out of traffic with that type of motorcycle. This guy patiently waited in line with everyone else in traffic.

[BiggerDee]

I thought about the signed set, but I already have a bunch of his signatures (on posters and individual original Split Spades cards from back in the day). problem is, the green and red would be signed. The silver (it was silver, wasn't it?) that would complete the set wouldn't be signed, so it would be kind of a mismatch. I'd rather put the $100 towards a plain deck (or decks (I can dream)) so that I would have a complete, albeit unsigned, set.

I just don't believe that the addition of the autographs is going to carry the value of the collector's set. The green decks are sold out, but fairly common so the only true value in that 2 deck set is the red deck. I know that some collectors would love it to be signed, but I would buy an unsigned deck over a signed one.

[Card Player]

I thought about the signed set, but I already have a bunch of his signatures (on posters and individual original Split Spades cards from back in the day). problem is, the green and red would be signed. The silver (it was silver, wasn't it?) that would complete the set wouldn't be signed, so it would be kind of a mismatch. I'd rather put the $100 towards a plain deck (or decks (I can dream)) so that I would have a complete, albeit unsigned, set.

I just don't believe that the addition of the autographs is going to carry the value of the collector's set. The green decks are sold out, but fairly common so the only true value in that 2 deck set is the red deck. I know that some collectors would love it to be signed, but I would buy an unsigned deck over a signed one.

The set you speak of does not have the GREEN deck in it. The set consists of the RED & BLACK decks.

The signed deck set are as good as used decks to me. I wish the industry would all get on the same page with customer and collector demand (as in supply & demand). Signatures are nice but many signatures devalue or deface items. Unless we are talking about a dead person, art or sports equipment (balls, helmets, jerseys), that's usually the case. In the case of David's variety brick sets, the signed certificate and box are all good. Location location location!

[BiggerDee]

Black, not green. That's correct. Thanks for the correction/clarification.

I agree with you 100% about the signatures, that's exactly my point on the reds. While I don't buy to resell, I definitely want to have the highest value retained in an item and with decks, I believe that unsigned appeals to a far greater audience.

[mirciusx]

Thanks Goodness that David Blaine is not dead. I don't care about decks value. I love this guy and that's all. And I love to have some decks at home and I have it, but no Gators. They are not home made, not wore by and not a personal thing from his bookshell.If will be, will be. If not, I would love to see a decks in my hands. I am not very happy because I didn't get Red or Green decks, but I can live without them, even I am a little collector.

[Don Boyer]

Personally, I could give a rat's tuchass about signatures - I just want the bloody cards!  But I learned with the purple White Lions that I would not own every deck David Blaine ever made - at least not while I'm livin' la vida de la clase media!

Well yes, Connecticut rent is cheaper then New York, but that does not mean his warehouse is substantial size. I've never been to his warehouse, have you? We can google it and see what its square footage is by satellite image. There is value in storage space? Especially if older excess product is sitting around and not moving very fast out the door.

Off topic: There was a time (about 2 year ago) when I was heavily playing poker at Foxwoods CT on my way home and I was driving along side a man on his motorcycle that looked exactly like David Blaine. I could not help but notice how safely he was driving. We were in traffic and most people I know would be cutting in and out of traffic with that type of motorcycle. This guy patiently waited in line with everyone else in traffic.

Actually, I have - the old one, which was the bottom floor of his office space.  Who said anything about "substantial size?"  X square feet in New York City will generally cost more than X amount of square feet in much of Connecticut - though not all.

I have about 1,800 decks of cards, plus the donated decks I'm holding for the kids in the hospital.  I know that a thousand decks doesn't take up a huge amount of space.  In my apartment, stacked just short of chest high, my whole collection takes up less square footage than a twin bed.  I would imagine that David's entire inventory would fit into a 10-by-10-feet storage locker if you packed it in there tight.  A one-bedroom apartment would provide ample storage space and work space to suffice as a "warehouse" with benefits - and the neighbors would love how quiet you are at night!

It's not likely, but it's also not impossible that the biker you saw that day was Blaine.  I guess it might depend on proximity between Foxwoods and his warehouse.

[Card Player]

Personally, I could give a rat's tuchass about signatures - I just want the bloody cards!  But I learned with the purple White Lions that I would not own every deck David Blaine ever made - at least not while I'm livin' la vida de la clase media!

Well yes, Connecticut rent is cheaper then New York, but that does not mean his warehouse is substantial size. I've never been to his warehouse, have you? We can google it and see what its square footage is by satellite image. There is value in storage space? Especially if older excess product is sitting around and not moving very fast out the door.

Off topic: There was a time (about 2 year ago) when I was heavily playing poker at Foxwoods CT on my way home and I was driving along side a man on his motorcycle that looked exactly like David Blaine. I could not help but notice how safely he was driving. We were in traffic and most people I know would be cutting in and out of traffic with that type of motorcycle. This guy patiently waited in line with everyone else in traffic.

Actually, I have - the old one, which was the bottom floor of his office space.  Who said anything about "substantial size?"  X square feet in New York City will generally cost more than X amount of square feet in much of Connecticut - though not all.

I have about 1,800 decks of cards, plus the donated decks I'm holding for the kids in the hospital.  I know that a thousand decks doesn't take up a huge amount of space.  In my apartment, stacked just short of chest high, my whole collection takes up less square footage than a twin bed.  I would imagine that David's entire inventory would fit into a 10-by-10-feet storage locker if you packed it in there tight.  A one-bedroom apartment would provide ample storage space and work space to suffice as a "warehouse" with benefits - and the neighbors would love how quiet you are at night!

It's not likely, but it's also not impossible that the biker you saw that day was Blaine.  I guess it might depend on proximity between Foxwoods and his warehouse.

Your most likely right. The I-95 from Connecticut to New York is common though. I remember knowing his warehouse was in Connecticut at the time. I could not help but think maybe. I'm not one to shout out or disturb people unless I know them personally. No matter who they are. No real way of knowing.

[PurpleIce]

Black, not green. That's correct. Thanks for the correction/clarification.

I agree with you 100% about the signatures, that's exactly my point on the reds. While I don't buy to resell, I definitely want to have the highest value retained in an item and with decks, I believe that unsigned appeals to a far greater audience.

I actually think it depends on who is signing the decks. DB's signature might add value to his decks considering who he is (Though still not to $100 in my opinion.) It definitely beats all new designers who without any reputation, prominence or influence of any sort who wants to charge extra for a signed deck. I'm sure they might turn out to be someone great, but you can charge extra for you autograph...later.

Another point to note is how hard it is to obtain that signature. If DB, as the magician he is, walks along the street, or is performing his magic somewhere, and you bring a deck (never before released as a signed deck) up to him to sign, sure, that definitely worth some sh*t. But if he is going to sign on 150 sets and just sell it off, i'm guessing it will not end up anywhere nearly as valuable. In fact, by doing this, if i went to a performance by DB and asked him sign the ticket stub or a DB T-shirt or something, it might end up worthing more than signing on a Red Gatorback, simply because, he has already done it 150 times before.

[Card Player]

Black, not green. That's correct. Thanks for the correction/clarification.

I agree with you 100% about the signatures, that's exactly my point on the reds. While I don't buy to resell, I definitely want to have the highest value retained in an item and with decks, I believe that unsigned appeals to a far greater audience.

I actually think it depends on who is signing the decks. DB's signature might add value to his decks considering who he is (Though still not to $100 in my opinion.) It definitely beats all new designers who without any reputation, prominence or influence of any sort who wants to charge extra for a signed deck. I'm sure they might turn out to be someone great, but you can charge extra for you autograph...later.

Another point to note is how hard it is to obtain that signature. If DB, as the magician he is, walks along the street, or is performing his magic somewhere, and you bring a deck (never before released as a signed deck) up to him to sign, sure, that definitely worth some sh*t. But if he is going to sign on 150 sets and just sell it off, i'm guessing it will not end up anywhere nearly as valuable. In fact, by doing this, if i went to a performance by DB and asked him sign the ticket stub or a DB T-shirt or something, it might end up worthing more than signing on a Red Gatorback, simply because, he has already done it 150 times before.

It has to do with location, quality and condition of the item being signed. It's no longer a new item once that cellophane is taken off. Deck producers can say its new, but we are the ones buying the item and we set the true value of the item by what we are willing to pay for it. 150 times before is not very much. People would pay $100 for it had it been done correctly. If David simply signed the box and a certificate w/ 2 brand new unopened red decks, they would be sold out for $100 already. There is no debate, its fact. It's a collectors market. We know what we want when it comes to signature items. It's not a matter of opinion. The proof is in the sales. Still available. I'll take a free David Blaine autograph all day. If David wants us to pay for his signature, do it right.

The only reason the White Lions Collectors Brick never sold out, was because at that point the White Lions Series_B were not in high demand. Most of us bought them individually when first released.

[BiggerDee]

CP, I agree, you're spot on. Maybe his angle was to appeal to card collectors by selling the red decks normally, and appealing to DB general fans by offering the signed decks. I also would have bought the set had the box been signed and the cards left alone. A custom seal on the box and decks with matching numbers would have been fine too so that it couldn't be said that it was just a random signed box with two decks thrown in to create a "Limited edition" set.


A few years back, I bought a set of his posters, all autographed. They were $10 more each than the un-autographed ones. When I bought the original black Split Spades, back when he was at his peak of performances (During the Frozen in Time era), and you could get an autographed playing card added to your order for an extra $10. Although I don't perform, I do a lot of research into magic and like knowing how to do all of the street magic type of tricks just for fun. There's not a lot that I can't easily figure out. That said, DB is my favorite performer because of his showmanship, audience control, and how he performs the tricks. That's where his talent is, and I appreciate him for that. I have his performance posters hanging in my office, as well as at home, as well as autographed items. His fame is still great, but he has passed the peak of the greatest hype for his career to this point. If his autograph was worth an extra $10 way back when, I can't see it being worth more now, especially with that many more autographed items available for purchase.

I also note that he stated that only 1,000 decks would be SOLD (my emphasis) on the site. Sure, he could use some for personal performances, but he most likely still has many past decks that could be used as well. Maybe there will eventually be items on the website where a red deck will be included "free" with purchase of something else.

I don't see it making a lot of business sense to (Let's assume the numbers are as such) produce 2,500 decks, keep 1,500, and sell the other 1,000 when you could have easily produced 5,000 and sold 3,500. That's a lot of extra income even if you only factor in $5/deck profit (It's most likely a lot more). Who doesn't want to make more money? At the very least, donate the extra earnings to charity.

[DarkDerp]

Black, not green. That's correct. Thanks for the correction/clarification.

I agree with you 100% about the signatures, that's exactly my point on the reds. While I don't buy to resell, I definitely want to have the highest value retained in an item and with decks, I believe that unsigned appeals to a far greater audience.

I actually think it depends on who is signing the decks. DB's signature might add value to his decks considering who he is (Though still not to $100 in my opinion.) It definitely beats all new designers who without any reputation, prominence or influence of any sort who wants to charge extra for a signed deck. I'm sure they might turn out to be someone great, but you can charge extra for you autograph...later.

Another point to note is how hard it is to obtain that signature. If DB, as the magician he is, walks along the street, or is performing his magic somewhere, and you bring a deck (never before released as a signed deck) up to him to sign, sure, that definitely worth some sh*t. But if he is going to sign on 150 sets and just sell it off, i'm guessing it will not end up anywhere nearly as valuable. In fact, by doing this, if i went to a performance by DB and asked him sign the ticket stub or a DB T-shirt or something, it might end up worthing more than signing on a Red Gatorback, simply because, he has already done it 150 times before.

It has to do with location, quality and condition of the item being signed. It's no longer a new item once that cellophane is taken off. Deck producers can say its new, but we are the ones buying the item and we set the true value of the item by what we are willing to pay for it. 150 times before is not very much. People would pay $100 for it had it been done correctly. If David simply signed the box and a certificate w/ 2 brand new unopened red decks, they would be sold out for $100 already. There is no debate, its fact. It's a collectors market. We know what we want when it comes to signature items. It's not a matter of opinion. The proof is in the sales. Still available. I'll take a free David Blaine autograph all day. If David wants us to pay for his signature, do it right.

The only reason the White Lions Collectors Brick never sold out, was because at that point the White Lions Series_B were not in high demand. Most of us bought them individually when first released.

Wow. Really good insight into the collectors mind. Never thought about how the manner in which a deck was signed would alter its worth/desirability.  Cool stuff.

[Marcus]

CP, I agree, you're spot on. Maybe his angle was to appeal to card collectors by selling the red decks normally, and appealing to DB general fans by offering the signed decks. I also would have bought the set had the box been signed and the cards left alone. A custom seal on the box and decks with matching numbers would have been fine too so that it couldn't be said that it was just a random signed box with two decks thrown in to create a "Limited edition" set.


A few years back, I bought a set of his posters, all autographed. They were $10 more each than the un-autographed ones. When I bought the original black Split Spades, back when he was at his peak of performances (During the Frozen in Time era), and you could get an autographed playing card added to your order for an extra $10. Although I don't perform, I do a lot of research into magic and like knowing how to do all of the street magic type of tricks just for fun. There's not a lot that I can't easily figure out. That said, DB is my favorite performer because of his showmanship, audience control, and how he performs the tricks. That's where his talent is, and I appreciate him for that. I have his performance posters hanging in my office, as well as at home, as well as autographed items. His fame is still great, but he has passed the peak of the greatest hype for his career to this point. If his autograph was worth an extra $10 way back when, I can't see it being worth more now, especially with that many more autographed items available for purchase.

I also note that he stated that only 1,000 decks would be SOLD (my emphasis) on the site. Sure, he could use some for personal performances, but he most likely still has many past decks that could be used as well. Maybe there will eventually be items on the website where a red deck will be included "free" with purchase of something else.

I don't see it making a lot of business sense to (Let's assume the numbers are as such) produce 2,500 decks, keep 1,500, and sell the other 1,000 when you could have easily produced 5,000 and sold 3,500. That's a lot of extra income even if you only factor in $5/deck profit (It's most likely a lot more). Who doesn't want to make more money? At the very least, donate the extra earnings to charity.

My guess is that it's closer to a 5k run. 1k sold, 4k for himself and people close to him. I know he's gone through a 4k run on his own before, so I wouldn't be surprised to see that be the case here as well. Besides, imagine he uses at least one deck per show, gives away a bunch to clients, friends and family, his consultants get a bunch (a few bricks) etc. Add to that the fact that Blaine is a sleight of hand aficionado and most likely goes through a lot of decks every month, 4k isn't that many to begin with.

I highly doubt we'll see any more red gatorbacks released by him except for perhaps a handful in some kind of variety box.

[Don Boyer]

I personally think the jury is still out in regard to autographs.  I can understand it decreases the value of certain things, especially when not in the more favorable location on the object being signed, but certain things are increased in value with the addition of the right signature.  Magic props and the like are often sold at a premium with the artist's signature attached.

And I agree with Marcus - while I can't presume to know the size of the print run, a guy like David will go through a lot of decks in the course of doing business.  If I had to guess, he probably uses - and gives away - maybe three or four bricks a week.  When I visited his office, there were decks all over the place in an assortment of brands, including his own, of course.  The print run could be 2.5k or it could be 10k or more.

Believe it or not, I'd even theorize that by now, he's already blown through most of his personal stash for work, holding a small reserve, and that he's already moved to a NEW Stutzman design!  In time, he'll make those available, but only after he's moved on to another design, and so on... 

[DarkDerp]

I would think a John Hancock slapped on a bunch of the same doodads would do about nada in the long run. Without coming  from a legendary show or another interesting  "origin story" it really doesn't feel so collectable.

[Card Player]

I personally think the jury is still out in regard to autographs.  I can understand it decreases the value of certain things, especially when not in the more favorable location on the object being signed, but certain things are increased in value with the addition of the right signature.  Magic props and the like are often sold at a premium with the artist's signature attached.

And I agree with Marcus - while I can't presume to know the size of the print run, a guy like David will go through a lot of decks in the course of doing business.  If I had to guess, he probably uses - and gives away - maybe three or four bricks a week.  When I visited his office, there were decks all over the place in an assortment of brands, including his own, of course.  The print run could be 2.5k or it could be 10k or more.

Believe it or not, I'd even theorize that by now, he's already blown through most of his personal stash for work, holding a small reserve, and that he's already moved to a NEW Stutzman design!  In time, he'll make those available, but only after he's moved on to another design, and so on... 

It depends on the magic prop. A deck used by David in his real or magic show(s) signed would have increased value. A new deck that simply had the cellophane taken off and then signed would decrease the value. The cage helmet from electrified on its own has high value. If David was to sign the visor of the electrified cage helmet, that would deface the object and decrease the value. I agree 100% the origin story plays a role in value of an item but some items are worth more on their own without the signature. It's hard to explain in words, as a collector you just know. There should be books or documentation online that can better explain it.

The problem is, autographs are difficult to authenticate. When it comes to big ticket items many are not willing to take a chance with an item that is simply signed. Difficulty selling that item brings value down. A signed deck years from now is hard to prove. The new deck on its own is easier to sell and that adds more value.

[DJT]

Santa came early   

[Card Player]

Santa came early   

Magic Santa is Dead. Prove me wrong.