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Kickstarter "Successful Failures"

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Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« on: December 14, 2013, 02:35:20 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I use a term, "successful failures", to refer to the omni-present KS deck projects that have simply failed to deliver, failed to keep in touch with backers, failed to post any updates and for all intents and purposes have committed Internet fraud using Kickstarter as the conduit for their activities.

Which projects did you back that failed to deliver?

For me, it's these:
Fund Michael Frömmer's 1616 Silver Bicycle® Playing Cards
The Mirror Deck Gaffed Playing Cards
Asylum Playing Cards
ULTRAVIOLET // Playing cards from beta17

I've heard on the Founders Playing Cards project, another successful failure, that the backers have actually gotten the New York State Attorney General's Office involved with an Internet fraud case against the project's creator, John Markian Slabyk, d.b.a. The Department of Design.  I'd love to get the various state attorneys general to start hounding all these other successful failures a.k.a. frauds, and hold the creators accountable once and for all.

Let me know who got shorted on what projects.  I'll declare an end date of January 31 - at that time, we'll break people into groups based on projects backed and select a volunteer to pursue the case with the attorney general of the creator's home state, including the name of all the group members in it.  When the case is picked up, we'll post the case number and instructions for how to join the case to the project's main comments section and try getting as many backers as possible involved in this.

I'm going to add a chart to this post for keeping track of who got defrauded on which projects and we'll take it from there.  Please only list projects that have failed to deliver, failed to post updates and failed to respond to backer inquiries - these are the true frauds that need to be dealt with.

Who knows?  If we need money to get the ball rolling, perhaps we can create a Kickstarter project to raise the funds for the case!  We can post a reward of little black and green ribbons like the pink ones supporting a cure for breast cancer - we'll be supporting a cure for KS Internet fraud, though officially, we're posting a project for the creation and distribution of these ribbons.  If nothing else, it would certainly get the attention of Kickstarter itself, hopefully spurring them to be more active in preventing and remedying such situations.
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2013, 07:35:22 AM »
 

Nurul

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Mustache playing cards by David Goldklang. No update from him since 7 Sept. Made one comment (not update) last month, saying he took on more than expected. Disappeared again after that. A woman called heather apparently got in contact with uspcc and was told the cards are making their way to David. I'm pretty sure she's affiliated with him in one way or another. I've sent an email the same manner she did and have still got no response from them.
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2013, 08:36:37 AM »
 

Loop Cuts

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I can vouch for David G.  You will definitely get your Card from Vanda but he did simply take on way too much and is now backed up a good bit. 
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 08:36:50 AM by Robert »
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2013, 08:44:26 AM »
 

Sher143

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Mustache playing cards by David Goldklang. No update from him since 7 Sept. Made one comment (not update) last month, saying he took on more than expected. Disappeared again after that. A woman called heather apparently got in contact with uspcc and was told the cards are making their way to David. I'm pretty sure she's affiliated with him in one way or another. I've sent an email the same manner she did and have still got no response from them.

I was such a n00b. I didn't back this one on Kickstarter, but I messaged him asking about whether I can still pre-order the cards. He sends me a BackerKit invite and I jump in, not reading the comments section on the Kickstarter campaign. :( At the end of October, my card was charged, and I thought things would finally get going, but no word from him since...

I thought it would be okay, since he had already done two previous Kickstarter playing card projects, but I guess not. I've pretty much already lost all hope.
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2013, 10:32:35 AM »
 

BastianBJ

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For me, it's these:
Fund Michael Frömmer's 1616 Silver Bicycle® Playing Cards
The Mirror Deck Gaffed Playing Cards
Asylum Playing Cards
ULTRAVIOLET // Playing cards from beta17

Haven't checked on the project for quite a while.. but I actually received my cards at least a month ago or so. But yeah, I haven't received Asylum, Ultraviolet and Quicksilver, though I am more optimistic about the Quicksilver cards than the others :)
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2013, 10:34:16 AM »
 

badpete69

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My first 2 deadbeat Kickstarters were the Bicycle Core deck and the Ultraviolet deck from Beta 17. But I was one of the rare lucky ones that eventually got both decks delivered.
Then the Army Men deck made the list but again luckily I got a refund from Adam. Currently I am still waiting but probably will never see the Founders Deck and The Asylum deck. As far as the Mustache deck goes yeah David has turned in one of those deadbeat I cannot stand. Even if you are having trouble keep the people informed. I cannot stand people like that.  OOOO poor baby  he doesn't have any money and can't ship/print the cards.  If you cannot run a business get the F out of the business.  Not sure if I ever will see those mustache decks

I also have a few non card related KS projects that I have been waiting for for more than year. 
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2013, 11:16:04 AM »
 

CBJ

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How about people that started shipping.. but then never completed.  Now some backers are STILL asking for their items or refunds

Vortex  <---  2 years completed and people are still waiting - funded Dec 3, 2011

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/aethercards/vortex-playing-cards-sci-fi-poker-sized?ref=live

Comments section:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/aethercards/vortex-playing-cards-sci-fi-poker-sized/comments



Bicycle Quicksilver  <--- 1 year completed and people are still waiting - funded Sept 19, 2012

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1017676492/quicksilver-playing-card-deck?ref=live

Comments section:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1017676492/quicksilver-playing-card-deck/comments



These people should also be held accountable for the fraud they've committed .



CBJ
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2013, 12:09:00 PM »
 

Nurul

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I can vouch for David G.  You will definitely get your Card from Vanda but he did simply take on way too much and is now backed up a good bit.

with all due respect, I want to hear it from David himself.
SHOGUN Playing Cards coming soon to Kickstarter
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2013, 12:33:26 PM »
 

vmagic

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I can vouch for David G.  You will definitely get your Card from Vanda but he did simply take on way too much and is now backed up a good bit.

with all due respect, I want to hear it from David himself.

I want to hear it from him as well.

Definitely for me it's the Bicycle Core, Bicycle Quicksilver, Ultraviolet, Asylum, and the Bicycle Army Men since I never got a refund on that one. Fortunately I missed out on the Founders and got away from the Michael Frommer decks and other associated projects. We'll have to see about the Mustache deck but it may also be added to the list. Also what about the Dante's Inferno? Haven't been hearing good things about that one, might be added to the list soon.

On the bright side there is apparently somebody who got a brick of Ultraviolet and is kind of enough to send some out to a few disgruntled backers and I will hopefully be getting one or two of those finally!
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 12:55:00 PM by Card Collector »
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2013, 01:31:09 PM »
 

Michael

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For me, it's these:
Fund Michael Frömmer's 1616 Silver Bicycle® Playing Cards
The Mirror Deck Gaffed Playing Cards
Asylum Playing Cards
ULTRAVIOLET // Playing cards from beta17

Haven't checked on the project for quite a while.. but I actually received my cards at least a month ago or so. But yeah, I haven't received Asylum, Ultraviolet and Quicksilver, though I am more optimistic about the Quicksilver cards than the others :)

I have also received my Mirror Decks a while ago as well. I didn't back those other ones so I'm in the clear.
"The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled."
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2013, 03:21:05 PM »
 

Ben Taylor

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The only one that I'm probably not going to get is the Seelie cards.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dernjg/seelie-playing-cards-with-a-touch-of-fairy-magic

I checked out his other projects at the time that one was running. He had previously delivered one card project, and was almost done with some others. Unfortunately, it looks like he hasn't made any progress on any of his projects since July.

Whenever someone at UC complained about this forum, it was because of the Vortex deck. I've seen posts here from people asking about their decks, and then the posts are either locked and moved to the archive, or deleted entirely. That's the reason I've been more active on UC than here. If you're going to do this, then Alex needs to be held to the same level of accountability as everyone else. It would be hypocrisy otherwise.
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2013, 04:01:35 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Whenever someone at UC complained about this forum, it was because of the Vortex deck. I've seen posts here from people asking about their decks, and then the posts are either locked and moved to the archive, or deleted entirely. That's the reason I've been more active on UC than here. If you're going to do this, then Alex needs to be held to the same level of accountability as everyone else. It would be hypocrisy otherwise.

My only question in regard to that would be: did you personally request Vortex decks as a reward for backing the project and not receive them?  Because that was the question I asked.

Aether Cards, the company, despite the URL in place at the moment, has nothing to do with the Discourse at playingcardforum.com.  Alex isn't the admin here, I am.  He's still on staff and plays an important role here, but that role has nothing to do with his one deck project.  That was why Alex was moving all those topics into the Archives back when he was still ranked as admin.  These days, I have a good deal of leeway in keeping the board running smoothly.

If you personally didn't receive your decks, and if Alex hasn't given you a satisfactory reason as to why, then by all means, jump on the bandwagon.  But if you didn't even order any from him, there's no point in bringing it up, because I created the topic for going after people who have personally defrauded you as an individual so we can join said individuals into a larger group and pursue the case with the Attorney General of the creator's home state.

And no, if someone has a legitimate grievance against any deck creator, I don't plan on censoring the comments made about that creator.  I want this place to be a welcoming, enjoyable place for everyone, and want people to know they're free to express their opinions as long as they're placed in the proper topic for it.  I won't delete it if it's just the wrong topic - I'd just move it to the correct topic.  The only messages I've deleted as admin are those from posters in the STISO who haven't met their minimums yet or from people who asked me specifically to delete them - and in the case of the latter, there should be at least a little justification as to why.  Censorship is a slippery slope which I try to avoid and I prefer that people censor themselves in regards to what's appropriate to post and what isn't.  Perhaps with the exception of Russell/sprouts1115 and that fugly picture he posted recently...and yet, even that picture is still here.  All I ask for is a degree of civility in any discussions around here.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 04:03:48 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2013, 04:51:56 PM »
 

montecarlojoe

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For me it's 3:

Michael Frommer
- Probably the least hopeful of the 3. It the lack of communication and the fact that there are 3 Manmade Games projects in the same situation that really seem to nail the coffin. Still you never know

Moustache
- It's all very well to vouch for him, or say he bit off more than he could chew - but it takes 5 minutes and no real effort to communicate with an update. Seriously - there is zero excuse not to have a weekly update - even if that's to tell us that there's been no change.

Type Deck
- Again - poor communication, zero preparation (hardly any art done) and a totally unprofessional approach to prioritising work. Sure we're glad you got a job - but that's no excuse to simply put the project on hold, sit on our money, AND SAY NOTHING!
I think these will probably get there, but I'm not holding my breath.
-MCJ

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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2013, 05:43:02 PM »
 

xela

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Haha, I'm not sure where some folks get the idea of censorship around here. It's pretty big over at UC but almost nonexistant here.

None of the old Vortex posts were deleted, they were archived, including the hundreds that were positive, because the forums no longer had anything to do with that deck. Differentiating between the two allowed for a larger community to join, and for more designers to promote their products here without feeling like there is a bias towards my work (and by the way, on UC, you can't even promote your work at all).

I think it's pretty self-evident that the board has nothing to do with my project, and any accountability I have is the same as any other KS project has. If you have a problem with that, you can contact me or KS to vent.

Furthermore, this board pushed tons of projects forward, and many of the companies/decks that were released on KS wouldn't even be here if it weren't for this site and the (literally) hundreds/thousands of hours of work I put into it.

Quote
Whenever someone at UC complained about this forum, it was because of the Vortex deck.

That is completely and totally false. Maybe the initial vendetta some folks over there had were a result of their problems with me, but you can easily find dozens of posts harassing other staff members here, as well as the regular members for being more "childish."

There is a reason we are more active than UC, and that's despite my late shipping with my deck.

That's all I have on the subject. :)
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2013, 06:14:28 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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I need to take a break....

« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 11:07:26 PM by sprouts1115 »
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2013, 07:20:28 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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He had a brick of cards and a pair of goggles for $13 international shipping which is a steal.  Everyone makes mistakes, but It hard to communicate with a creator when he can't respond to a post.

Russell, we're talking about people who've backed COMPLETED projects that haven't delivered and aren't updated.  You're posting a picture of a conversation about a currently-active project - why?  It hasn't even closed yet, never mind went past the delivery date...

Please, stay on topic.  All the stuff about Vortex and UC is a tangent - if people want to discuss that, I ask that you make a new topic for it.  The only exception are people who backed Vortex and didn't receive their reward.  I really would like to organize us and turn up the heat on these rip-off projects - and perhaps even Kickstarter.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 07:20:47 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2013, 11:46:57 PM »
 

Rob Wright

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I backed both the Michael Frömmer's 1616 Silver Bicycle Playing Cards & Victorian Adventure from Alex W. Luckily no a lot. I see some comments that people are getting refunds when they email him directly. I'm going to take it as lesson learned. No longer will I back a second project when a designer has not delivered the first.
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2013, 12:20:16 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I backed both the Michael Frömmer's 1616 Silver Bicycle Playing Cards & Victorian Adventure from Alex W. Luckily no a lot. I see some comments that people are getting refunds when they email him directly. I'm going to take it as lesson learned. No longer will I back a second project when a designer has not delivered the first.

Were that the case, and had everyone followed that advice, Federal 52 Part 2 would never have funded.
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2013, 12:47:55 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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I backed both the Michael Frömmer's 1616 Silver Bicycle Playing Cards & Victorian Adventure from Alex W. Luckily no a lot. I see some comments that people are getting refunds when they email him directly. I'm going to take it as lesson learned. No longer will I back a second project when a designer has not delivered the first.

Were that the case, and had everyone followed that advice, Federal 52 Part 2 would never have funded.

Ok- a caveat to my statement- there is always exceptions. With Jackson's projects- he is very involved with the backers, and constantly updates. He has no red flags.
Alex may have been involved more at the beginning, but he had a huge red flag of an $8500 goal.... that barely got there on both.

I think Jackson would admit that running his second project suffered some(time wise to do art) because of how long shipping of Fed 52 took.
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.

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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2013, 12:49:04 AM »
 

BiggerDee

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Michael Frommer and Type for me. I have a couple if others like Mustache, but I believe that they will deliver. I also funded several of the projects mentioned in this thread, but I received my cards without ant problem. I've backed around 100 card projects, with only these two being thorns in the side for me.

Victorian adventure as well. I had forgotten about it. Same creator as Michael Frommer.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 12:47:27 PM by BiggerDee »
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2013, 07:51:13 PM »
 

JacksonRobinson

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I want to add a special note that I think is interesting. I my self backed The Founders deck, and am very disappointed it didn't come through.

The thing I want to point out is during the Sherlock Holmes campaign I ran a google hangout that was also streamed on youtube. The creator of the Founders deck actually made a comment during the hangout.

hmmm, so hes watching
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2013, 10:47:16 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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In case you didn't know, your sister site the UC is planning on doing the same thing your trying to do. http://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2597 Interesting reading.  It all makes sense Kickstarter has been around for what 3 years and now we want to show the bad apples.  This will hopefully deter other scammers and bring people to your site for more information. I would say you have some time.  I have noticed a significant decline of activity at the UC.  I wonder why?  At the UC, I do not see a lot of deck creators responding to the posts that people have set up for them.  They do have a lot of lurkers, but it takes people to provide content. 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 10:52:09 PM by sprouts1115 »
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2013, 11:23:03 PM »
 

Firdawesome

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I have noticed a significant decline of activity at the UC. I wonder why? At the UC, I do not see a lot of deck creators responding to the posts that people have set up for them.

That's because the deck creators keep getting banned left and right. It's pretty much the Ratledge Show over at the UC these days, and he's no Don Boyer.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 11:25:13 PM by Firdawesome »
 

Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2013, 12:39:18 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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In case you didn't know, your sister site the UC is planning on doing the same thing your trying to do. http://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2597 Interesting reading.  It all makes sense Kickstarter has been around for what 3 years and now we want to show the bad apples.  This will hopefully deter other scammers and bring people to your site for more information. I would say you have some time.  I have noticed a significant decline of activity at the UC.  I wonder why?  At the UC, I do not see a lot of deck creators responding to the posts that people have set up for them.  They do have a lot of lurkers, but it takes people to provide content.

Sister site?  More like second cousin!  :))  Just kidding...  Actually, it would be more like the site of the kid next door...  There's no relation other than sharing some members in common.

The topic refers to a campaign that Mr. Ratledge wants to see to fruition about getting Kickstarter to force a clause into their creator contracts that requires they supply their backers before entering into any retail sale arrangements with vendors.  The thing is, however, that it would dramatically increase the cost of making a deck (and the fact that it would affect ALL projects, not just decks, make it unlikely to pass).

When a designer makes a deck and has a few retailers in place who placed bulk orders for decks, the usual practice is to have USPC break up the shipment to go to the various destinations - for example, Joe Player makes Joe's Deck, he has AceKing, JP and PokerStud52 lined up to buy in bulk, so he arranges for USPC to ship those bulk orders straight to the retailers with the remainder coming to him so he can divvy, pack and ship them to all the backers.  USPC will break up a larger shipment like this at no extra charge, or so I'm told.

If Ratledge's rule went into effect, all the decks would have to be shipped to Joe Player or his fulfillment center.  Then while dealing with shipping out all the tiny one- and two-deck orders, he'd have to have the retailer bulk orders shipped from his place, at his expense, and he'd have to sit on the entire thing until all those other backer orders were completed.  If he got Larry's Mint to make some coins for the campaign and Larry was late on delivering, he's still forced to wait on shipping to the retailers and has all those cards taking up space in either his apartment or at the fulfillment center - which I'm sure would be charging for storage if delivery had to be delayed, since his project is tying up valuable storage space for other projects they've contracted to deliver for other companies.  The problem gets compounded when he's dealing with Larry's Mint (coins), Jane's Print Shop (art prints), Jessica's Dice Emporium and Factory (dice) and Bishop's T-Shirt Extravaganza (custom t-shirts).  A delay from any of them delays shipments from leaving and keeps the cards out of retailers' hands, which they'll only tolerate for so long before canceling the agreement to buy.

It's just a mess to try adding such a requirement, and it would be not just difficult to enforce, but depending on the laws of the various states and countries, it might not even stand the litmus test to determine if it's legal to have such a requirement.

I have noticed a significant decline of activity at the UC. I wonder why? At the UC, I do not see a lot of deck creators responding to the posts that people have set up for them.

That's because the deck creators keep getting banned left and right. It's pretty much the Ratledge Show over at the UC these days, and he's no Don Boyer.

I hope that's a compliment...  :))  Since I think it is, thanks for that.

BTW, has anyone noticed that the UC forum's clock display on the home page is an hour fast?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 12:47:40 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Kickstarter "Successful Failures"
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2013, 05:21:39 AM »
 

MagikFingerz

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Actually, the most important thing that Ratledge wants to get through is that kickstarter shouldn't let campaign creators start a new campaign until their previous one is fulfilled. Which makes a lot of sense.
- Tom