The Discourse Deck

[HandSkillz]

Hey everyone, I've only been a member here for a few months, but I have been thinking lot lately about some new deck designs, vintage cards, and how great a community that has been built here.  The main question in my mind is has anyone ever undertaken the idea of creating a limited run of "Discourse" cards for the forums?  If not, this could be a great time.

Here is my thought process, please hear me out and read all bullet points before jumping to any conclusions:
1) We have some of the best designers on the planet, Jackson, Paul, etc (I know it's not fair, I could name 20 of you) posting here all of the time.
2) We have many people with an incredible wealth of knowledge and love of cards and card designs, look, feel, handling. I always wondered what a deck of cards would look like if Don, Lee, Rob, MrMollusk, and a bunch of you I see around had a lot of say for instance.
3) A lot of people here know how to run a successful kickstarter campaign, so getting the cards printed and shipped wouldn't be as big of an undertaking as it could be.
4) The designers are busy working on their own projects, but if we had a master thread, voted on ideas, and got small contributions from everyone, we could have quite the epic deck.  I say we give someone veto power as well, like Don or another moderator.  I really mean would could create something for the ages.
5) Which leads me to what started this entire idea in my mind - This could be an awesome opportunity to marry the designs of a modern deck design with vintage deck designs!!!

I would be happy to participate in any aspect if this is something that could work - I definitely think the deck would be called "Discourse".

I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback and thoughts.

-B

[Don Boyer]

The idea has been attempted before, but as a group-made work.  It fell apart over time - too many cooks and all that.  At the time, Alex had committed to getting the deck made if the design was ever completed - it never was.

As Tom Dawson owns the Discourse, the rights to make such a deck would be in his possession.  It's not a bad idea, really, as it would help promote the board, but he may also want to tie in the board's connections with 52 Plus Joker as well.

What could be very interesting would be to create a two-deck set - a Discourse deck and a 52+J deck.  The Discourse deck would have a modern design, while the 52+J would be more old-school, something you would have expected to see a hundred years ago or more.

At that would remain then would be getting it designed and funded.  Kickstarter would be a good way to try funding it, but there would have to be a LOT of community support for it.  Additionally, you'd need to find a designer or two willing to work on spec for the job, something not many graphic designers are willing to do, unless Tom or someone else was interested in fronting the cash to pay them.

I would say to let the idea sit for a while, let people discuss it.  If the support for it is still strong in, say, three or four months, maybe it is something worth looking at seriously.  Right now, we're still in the process of integrating the board with the club, so getting that under our belts first would be more prudent.

[JacksonRobinson]

I think (as an artist) creating a Discourse deck or a 52+ Joker deck would be totally doable. I'll be straight up and say that I can't commit to designing another Federal 52 "level of detail deck" but I would personally would be more than happy to design a solid back and tuck case. If you guys want I will even make sure the production side of it goes smooth as well.

I can also chat with the powers at be of how much the production cost would be. I would contribute my art for free, especially if it is for 52+ joker. It would be really nice this fall to have the first 52+ joker deck at the convention, especially since alot of new people are planning on coming.

If Tom is interested, just have him give me a shout or Don can get a hold of me as well.

[Nurul]

This would be an amazing idea. You've got my vote and funds

[JacksonRobinson]

I personally would like to design a vintage style deck with vintage style back, standard courts, and vintage tuck case.

[xela]

Funding would be an issue if it was just a "Discourse deck." A joint venture seems more appropriate, perhaps with 52+ fans, PCF fans and fans of Lee Asher's magic, it could get done.

The last forum deck here was a failure because of, like Don said, too many cooks in the kitchen. It was a member's collab effort, and went down the drain as a result of every member having vastly different artistic skill.

The last forum deck to get funded wasn't even really funded, it got about half way before receiving the other half of its funding in one lump pledge. Maybe it was self-funded or maybe there was just one guy who wanted thousands of decks, but either way we can't rely on that kind of luck.

Decks that don't go "viral" (and this one certainly won't, since it would be by the members, for the members) must rely on proper marketing. I hate to say it, but it would be easier to get a shitty deck made with great marketing, than an amazing deck made with poor marketing.

So before all else, I think we should have a discussion about exactly how we will find the numbers needed to accomplish this.

A 2500 deck run seems most appropriate, and I love the idea of mixing vintage with modern. However, could we get a unique feel for the cards? The best thing about vintage decks from the 60s-80s is their handling.

[HandSkillz]

Funding would be an issue if it was just a "Discourse deck." A joint venture seems more appropriate, perhaps with 52+ fans, PCF fans and fans of Lee Asher's magic, it could get done.

The last forum deck here was a failure because of, like Don said, too many cooks in the kitchen. It was a member's collab effort, and went down the drain as a result of every member having vastly different artistic skill.

The last forum deck to get funded wasn't even really funded, it got about half way before receiving the other half of its funding in one lump pledge. Maybe it was self-funded or maybe there was just one guy who wanted thousands of decks, but either way we can't rely on that kind of luck.

Decks that don't go "viral" (and this one certainly won't, since it would be by the members, for the members) must rely on proper marketing. I hate to say it, but it would be easier to get a shitty deck made with great marketing, than an amazing deck made with poor marketing.

So before all else, I think we should have a discussion about exactly how we will find the numbers needed to accomplish this.

A 2500 deck run seems most appropriate, and I love the idea of mixing vintage with modern. However, could we get a unique feel for the cards? The best thing about vintage decks from the 60s-80s is their handling.

I agree with all of your points.  As far as marketing and making things viral, I think we could get a blank deck funded on Kickstarter tomorrow with some of the potential names that could be attached to the project.  Not to mention the word-of-mouth factor would be exceptional.  If we look at playing cards on kickstarter, I would be shocked to see any deck started by the group of people on this forum and 52+ Joker not be successful, even if it was a run of 5000 decks.

I haven't done it before, true, but I would be happy to take the reigns on the marketing effort.

[JacksonRobinson]

Funding would be an issue if it was just a "Discourse deck." A joint venture seems more appropriate, perhaps with 52+ fans, PCF fans and fans of Lee Asher's magic, it could get done.

The last forum deck here was a failure because of, like Don said, too many cooks in the kitchen. It was a member's collab effort, and went down the drain as a result of every member having vastly different artistic skill.

The last forum deck to get funded wasn't even really funded, it got about half way before receiving the other half of its funding in one lump pledge. Maybe it was self-funded or maybe there was just one guy who wanted thousands of decks, but either way we can't rely on that kind of luck.

Decks that don't go "viral" (and this one certainly won't, since it would be by the members, for the members) must rely on proper marketing. I hate to say it, but it would be easier to get a shitty deck made with great marketing, than an amazing deck made with poor marketing.

So before all else, I think we should have a discussion about exactly how we will find the numbers needed to accomplish this.

A 2500 deck run seems most appropriate, and I love the idea of mixing vintage with modern. However, could we get a unique feel for the cards? The best thing about vintage decks from the 60s-80s is their handling.

I agree with all of your points.  As far as marketing and making things viral, I think we could get a blank deck funded on Kickstarter tomorrow with some of the potential names that could be attached to the project.  Not to mention the word-of-mouth factor would be exceptional.  If we look at playing cards on kickstarter, I would be shocked to see any deck started by the group of people on this forum and 52+ Joker not be successful, even if it was a run of 5000 decks.

I haven't done it before, true, but I would be happy to take the reigns on the marketing effort.

I think the more groups you bring into the "collaboration" the more "cooks" you have so I think it would be best just to pick one group. But honestly it doesn't matter what group is doing as long as it is well designed deck all collectors would want it.

Unfortunately your not going to get a 60s-80s feel as those days are dead and gone. You will either get a USPC deck or non USPC deck and even with the USPC decks its all but a crap shoot. Theres tons of talk about "i like the handling of this, I don't of this deck" when theres really no difference in the production, or what you have control of. So much of what people "like" about the handling is a random factor of who ever is running the presses the day your cards are printed and if they are in a good mood or not.

I disagree about having to have marketing. If you make well designed deck and keep the run low you will get it funded. 9 out of the 10 decks I see fail not because they didn't have a marketing plan but fail because they are just flat out crappy decks.

Also if yo design a great deck it will reach past just the members of the group and be wanted by all card collectors because it is a great deck.

[Rob Wright]

UC got $7k funded on KS for their deck. After fees and shipping, I would think that would get the deck about half funded. While Jackson is very generous for offering his design service. I doubt he would want to run a KS campaign. With Jackson's name attached as the designer, it could turn into a pretty big project for whomever runs it.

[xela]

UC got $7k funded on KS for their deck. After fees and shipping, I would think that would get the deck about half funded. While Jackson is very generous for offering his design service. I doubt he would want to run a KS campaign. With Jackson's name attached as the designer, it could turn into a pretty big project for whomever runs it.

The UC deck got funded half way on KS, and then mysteriously got the other half from one more pledge nearing the end.  It's unreliable to look at it and go "well, hey, we can do it too!"

@Jackson: When I meant multiple groups involved with the deck, I simply meant from a marketing standpoint. For example, back when D&D decks used to launch on T11 as well. Naturally the design of the deck should be given to 1-2 people and that's it. We *did* try this before, with at least a dozen designers involved, and it failed as a result.

[Lotrek]

Funding would be an issue if it was just a "Discourse deck." A joint venture seems more appropriate, perhaps with 52+ fans, PCF fans and fans of Lee Asher's magic, it could get done.

The last forum deck here was a failure because of, like Don said, too many cooks in the kitchen. It was a member's collab effort, and went down the drain as a result of every member having vastly different artistic skill.

The last forum deck to get funded wasn't even really funded, it got about half way before receiving the other half of its funding in one lump pledge. Maybe it was self-funded or maybe there was just one guy who wanted thousands of decks, but either way we can't rely on that kind of luck.

Decks that don't go "viral" (and this one certainly won't, since it would be by the members, for the members) must rely on proper marketing. I hate to say it, but it would be easier to get a shitty deck made with great marketing, than an amazing deck made with poor marketing.

So before all else, I think we should have a discussion about exactly how we will find the numbers needed to accomplish this.

A 2500 deck run seems most appropriate, and I love the idea of mixing vintage with modern. However, could we get a unique feel for the cards? The best thing about vintage decks from the 60s-80s is their handling.

I agree with all of your points.  As far as marketing and making things viral, I think we could get a blank deck funded on Kickstarter tomorrow with some of the potential names that could be attached to the project.  Not to mention the word-of-mouth factor would be exceptional.  If we look at playing cards on kickstarter, I would be shocked to see any deck started by the group of people on this forum and 52+ Joker not be successful, even if it was a run of 5000 decks.

I haven't done it before, true, but I would be happy to take the reigns on the marketing effort.

I think the more groups you bring into the "collaboration" the more "cooks" you have so I think it would be best just to pick one group. But honestly it doesn't matter what group is doing as long as it is well designed deck all collectors would want it.

Unfortunately your not going to get a 60s-80s feel as those days are dead and gone. You will either get a USPC deck or non USPC deck and even with the USPC decks its all but a crap shoot. Theres tons of talk about "i like the handling of this, I don't of this deck" when theres really no difference in the production, or what you have control of. So much of what people "like" about the handling is a random factor of who ever is running the presses the day your cards are printed and if they are in a good mood or not.

I disagree about having to have marketing. If you make well designed deck and keep the run low you will get it funded. 9 out of the 10 decks I see fail not because they didn't have a marketing plan but fail because they are just flat out crappy decks.

Also if yo design a great deck it will reach past just the members of the group and be wanted by all card collectors because it is a great deck.

Agree 100%  A deck is either a good/great deck or not. All the rest are of minor importance.

[Rick Davidson]

I third that

Also agree with running a small team on this.  If Jackson is willing to devote his time to the design, I think free reign will get the best result artistically.  Nice one Jackson.  Others to promote the campaign, great, and I think you'll have a winner.

[xela]

I third that

Also agree with running a small team on this.  If Jackson is willing to devote his time to the design, I think free reign will get the best result artistically.  Nice one Jackson.  Others to promote the campaign, great, and I think you'll have a winner.

Jackson volunteered his time for the backs/tuck, so we still need someone for:

Jokers, AoS, pips, courts (optional)

Preferably one person would tackle the rest of the list. 

[JacksonRobinson]

I third that

Also agree with running a small team on this.  If Jackson is willing to devote his time to the design, I think free reign will get the best result artistically.  Nice one Jackson.  Others to promote the campaign, great, and I think you'll have a winner.

Jackson volunteered his time for the backs/tuck, so we still need someone for:

Jokers, AoS, pips, courts (optional)

Preferably one person would tackle the rest of the list. 

When I volunteered I was including AoS, Jokers, Pips into the equation. Sorry I didn't make that clearer. And simple color variations like metallics and such on standard courts. I just couldn't commit 250 plus hours to create a full set of courts to the level of the Feds.

That way everything has consistency.

[JacksonRobinson]

I already had an AoS in mind for this deck.

[52plusjoker]

I think this is a great idea. Not sure about two different decks [Discourse + 52+J] in one set. I'd like to see the idea percolate for a while as Don suggested. I think I'd like to see a joint deck showing the cooperation and respect that the two organizations have/will have. I'm not concerned with funding if we come up with the right theme/design. I will talk to Jackson and see what is realistic in terms of his time and with a few thoughts I have for a design [I can't design but I can think!]. One model to follow might be that of the Worshipful Company of Makers of Playing Cards in London who do a set every year for presentation at their annual installation of the new Master gala dinner.

[Don Boyer]

I think this is a great idea. Not sure about two different decks [Discourse + 52+J] in one set. I'd like to see the idea percolate for a while as Don suggested. I think I'd like to see a joint deck showing the cooperation and respect that the two organizations have/will have. I'm not concerned with funding if we come up with the right theme/design. I will talk to Jackson and see what is realistic in terms of his time and with a few thoughts I have for a design [I can't design but I can think!]. One model to follow might be that of the Worshipful Company of Makers of Playing Cards in London who do a set every year for presentation at their annual installation of the new Master gala dinner.

The two-deck set was something I tossed out to represent both groups individually, but perhaps a single deck shows better unity.

I'd like to suggest a few decks that might be something to look towards in terms of creating a deck.  I love the classic design of the Hornets by CCCC, including the ad campaign that Russell Kercheval created and the pale-cream colored background, though I might prefer a color set more akin to what we see on casino decks, with that much-deeper shade of red and pure black.  For the courts, I'd like something a little softer and more updated - I like the courts on the Club Angel deck by Angel Playing Cards in Japan as well as the Virtuoso deck, both versions, printed for the Virts cardistry group by USPC.  The faces are more realistic and look less like they fell out of a history book.  Updated, realistic garments might be nice as well, such as what appears on the WhiteKnuckle deck - and the three-dimensional effect he creates is also quite lovely.

[Leif]

I'm just tossing this idea out there.

Doesn't it feel like we've entered a "New Era" in the world of playing cards collecting? What if we tried to marry a vintage court design like... gee, I don't know... maybe the New Era no. 46, with a more modern back, ace and tuck design, to kind of symbolize the unification of the playing cards collecting universe?

I'd like to be involved in the design of this deck somehow. Mostly to learn from Jackson, but also to do something for the community.

[Don Boyer]

I'm just tossing this idea out there.

Doesn't it feel like we've entered a "New Era" in the world of playing cards collecting? What if we tried to marry a vintage court design like... gee, I don't know... maybe the New Era no. 46, with a more modern back, ace and tuck design, to kind of symbolize the unification of the playing cards collecting universe?

I'd like to be involved in the design of this deck somehow. Mostly to learn from Jackson, but also to do something for the community.

It's worth considering, but I'd think something borrowing from the past but unique in nature would be better - something to tie both the vintage/antique world of collecting with modern custom deck collecting.  Using New Era faces with new backs feels more like a kludge than a unified design.  I'm thinking more of a deck that fuses the elements together to make something both new and familiar, modern and classic.

[Leif]

I'm just tossing this idea out there.

Doesn't it feel like we've entered a "New Era" in the world of playing cards collecting? What if we tried to marry a vintage court design like... gee, I don't know... maybe the New Era no. 46, with a more modern back, ace and tuck design, to kind of symbolize the unification of the playing cards collecting universe?

I'd like to be involved in the design of this deck somehow. Mostly to learn from Jackson, but also to do something for the community.

It's worth considering, but I'd think something borrowing from the past but unique in nature would be better - something to tie both the vintage/antique world of collecting with modern custom deck collecting.  Using New Era faces with new backs feels more like a kludge than a unified design.  I'm thinking more of a deck that fuses the elements together to make something both new and familiar, modern and classic.

It would probably be difficult to make it look good together, I guess. But I like your idea with fusing elements of new and old together.

[HandSkillz]

I'm really happy with everyone's response to the idea.  Any way I can be attached would be great what can I do that's not design related?

[MrMollusk]

Jackson Robinson's helping design a deck for the Discourse?
This is too good to be true.

And I think the deck would obliterate the KS goal if it's good. The United Cardists deck was so specific, that it alienated much of the fanbase. If the Discourse deck's design was still broad enough that it appealed to the rest of the card collecting world in addition to forum members, there would be no problem with funding.

Also, it's freaking Jackson Robinson. It'll most likely look absolutely stunning.

[Rob Wright]

Just an idea to combine the Discourse and 52 Plus Joker- Taking a cue from Uusi, use the two extra cards, and form a diptych. Discourse on one and 52+ on the other

[John B.]

Personally I did not like how the UC deck was just for promotion. Imo unless you knew who they were and wanted to promote them it was ehh. I like the idea of the 2 decks, one modern one vintage. Maybe take the same design and just tweak it to a more vintage style, or make one vintage and tweak it to be more modern. I would say just have one or 2 designers design it and have one person run the kickstarter project. I dont know if any of us live in the same general area but if so we could join up to help with the packaging and shipping.

[xela]

Any way I can be attached would be great what can I do that's not design related?

Just keep checking back in the thread, share ideas, and see where you can help out!