Hello From Bill Kalush

[WKalush]

Hello All,
I made a post on the Discourse a few days ago and Don Boyer suggested I write a little introduction and post it here.
I'm first and foremost interested in sleight of hand with cards. It's this long held interest that led me to start experimenting with custom cards over 25 years ago.
Being that I started into serious study of card magic in the early 80's I was lucky enough to have cut my sleight of hand teeth on cards produced by USPCC in the 70s and early 80s before they fully adopted plastic coating. We used to have to use fanning powder to keep a deck from getting too sticky to use. As USPCC changed their coatings cards kept getting slipperier and slipperier and this caused me and others to try to collect up unused older packs. Not so much for collecting value but for a sure supply of cards we knew how to handle.
In 1988 I was in a position to introduce a new potato to the American market called Yukon Gold and in commemoration we produced about 1500 decks at International Playing Card Co. in Windsor. I was very lucky and the cards came out beautifully! I wish had more than a couple dozen decks left! This deck had the "paper" feel that USPCC was migrating away from at that time.
My interest in sleight of hand has never waned but my further interests in magic and magic history have grown over the years. In 2001 I started a foundation for the study of magic history and in 2003 this foundation started to operate a real library and research center in New York City. It's expensive to fund the payrolls etc of the librarians and employees so a few years later after Ellusionist and David Blaine had started doing custom decks I decided to get reacquainted with USPCC and to attempt to produce some custom decks with a difference. My primary interest in this new endeavor has been to produce excellent feeling and handling cards. My foundation, Conjuring Arts Research Center, started to produce large runs of cards at USPCC primarily because I believe that their web press uses a superior coating thus making better cards. Over the many decks we did at USPCC we experimented with many different papers and other changes to attempt to get what I consider excellent cards. I feel that many of the cards we have sold at Conjuring Arts represent the finest handling cards presently produced. Near the end of 2012 we decided to expand our horizons and to attempt to find and work with factories world wide. I decided that the foundation would start a proper playing card company as a separate entity and The Expert Playing Card Company LLC was formed. Very simply the EPCC exists to produce the world's best cards for those who actually use them. All proceeds and profits from anything Conjuring Arts or EPCC sells go strictly to charity. No profits are ever kept from our playing card or any other magic related ventures.
To persue more potential factories I personally went to China and visited many factories and met with even more makers who came to see me. After scouring as many as possible I decide to work with 2 asian factories. The first EPCC production was our Global Titan deck. This deck has a distinct feel and for many it performs better than almost anything else on the market. Nonetheless the coating is still a little too platicy for all tastes and the way they are cut out, although good, still has some minor cupping that you don't see with USPCC cards. The Global Titans also are designed to look a certain way. My own personal taste is for cards from the golden period of 1870-1920 and we decided to pattern our decks and style after the venerated NYCC. The Global Titan deck used a back design that Dougherty, NYCC and others used from as early as 1864 and this was really an American classic design. Historians will obviously see that we repurposed artwork from NYCC brands for Global Titans tucks, bricks and faces as well.
Looking for even better edges and a subtler coating the EPCC's second venture used a different factory and we again used rare early artwork and great Art Nouveau ideas for our Exquisite decks. We feel these cards are the best yet and without a doubt the edges and registration are the finest we have found anywhere in the world.
The EPCC is about how cards feel and we will continue to search the globe for factories with high standards and who can work with us to create cards that perform. We also realize that there are those who think calling ourselves a Playing Card Company without owning a factory is improper but that is how the world has always worked. Even now the largest company in the world, Apple Computer, doesn't own a factory. They design, commission and sell their products and can shift from factory to factory as they need to in order to compete. EPCC is no Apple computer but the "designed by" model is the same.
We have also sought out close ties to Tom and Judy Dawson and have learned a great deal from them and they have helped EPCC start a strong collection of early playing card designs. You will definitely see some of these long lost beautiful old decks revived and reintroduced for the 21st century. They will not be decks that are just reproductions but things will be modified and updated and hopefully made to appeal to a modern aesthetic.
I hope this introduction tells you a little about me and why Conjuring Arts and EPCC are in the business of selling playing cards.

Bill Kalush

[MagikFingerz]

Welcome, Bill! Thanks for the fascinating read

May I ask how/where the Legends decks fit in with the other decks you mentioned?

[john]

Welcome Bill! Interesting read, hope to see you drop some knowledge on us more often!

I'm honestly fascinated with the work CARC does. Without trying to make this a Q&A may I ask you a few questions?

Do you intend to work with other factories beside the ones that worked on Global Titans and Exquisite?

Do you intend to work with USPC again in the near future?

[WKalush]

Hi Fingerz and John,
On my trip to China Lawrence came along for part of it and we have worked together on his Legends as well as my Exquisites and the Carbon Clips.
EPCC will work closely with Lawrence and his Legends card company on many new products coming soon. Some will be co-releases as well.

We definitely will work with other factories and are actively searching for them everyday. As long as they are better than what we are doing or can do innovative things we will work with them.

We sincerely love USPCC. Not so pleased about their Skull project but the brand manager that did that to us is gone and that's water under the bridge. I have made so many decks with USPCC that I understand their process very well and will definitely print with them again. I have an order in with them as we speak but it's primarily for research and I probably won't release them retail. But I have several other decks in the works that can only be printed with them and I am also consulting with friends who are printing there. I'm helping them get the exact feel and cut they want. It's a surprisingly difficult thing to get USPCC to do precisely what you want. You have to be able to tell them exactly what you want and then follow through so that don't leave anything out. It's a big place and lots of moving parts.
I can also say that since Bill Schildman took over and has now made Ashley and Tiffany his point people on custom they have greatly improved how things work over there.

bk

[Nurul]

Welcome Mr Kalush so great to have you on here. I recently purchased "the secret life of Houdini", still waiting for it to arrive. I hear it's an amazing read

[Anthony]

Wonderful to have you on the boards Bill, Welcome!

[Don Boyer]

It's good to see you here, Bill, glad you came.  If you have any questions (or answers!) please feel free to let me know.

[john]

We definitely will work with other factories and are actively searching for them everyday. As long as they are better than what we are doing or can do innovative things we will work with them.

We sincerely love USPCC. Not so pleased about their Skull project but the brand manager that did that to us is gone and that's water under the bridge. I have made so many decks with USPCC that I understand their process very well and will definitely print with them again. I have an order in with them as we speak but it's primarily for research and I probably won't release them retail. But I have several other decks in the works that can only be printed with them and I am also consulting with friends who are printing there. I'm helping them get the exact feel and cut they want. It's a surprisingly difficult thing to get USPCC to do precisely what you want. You have to be able to tell them exactly what you want and then follow through so that don't leave anything out. It's a big place and lots of moving parts.
I can also say that since Bill Schildman took over and has now made Ashley and Tiffany his point people on custom they have greatly improved how things work over there.

bk

If you were to find a better factory, would all your non USPC decks then be printed through them until you found another better factory? Or would you still use the other factories?

Cool, glad to hear you will work with USPC again! About test print runs, have you ever had a run go well and sold it? Such as one of Erdnase decks or other USPC CARC decks? Also what do you do with the remaining decks from a test run?

Sorry for the questions but as I said before, SUPER interested in the workings of CARC and how run things.

[Rob Wright]

Bill, glad to see you here. Another great presence here on the forum. Enjoyed your story. What a great time we live in- playing cards wise. USPC puts out some great cards, but they are about making money- so it's save money, and put out a product that's good enough. Now we have people like yourself trying to break that mold. Someone saying good enough is never good. You're making them make better cards, and showing them there is competition. Thank you for your work. 

Thank you also for the signed Exquisite deck you gave Don. That's been a great contest for us here. Hopefully we'll be able to do something like that again [cough, cough]Hint[/cough] 

[Don Boyer]

Bill, glad to see you here. Another great presence here on the forum. Enjoyed your story. What a great time we live in- playing cards wise. USPC puts out some great cards, but they are about making money- so it's save money, and put out a product that's good enough. Now we have people like yourself trying to break that mold. Someone saying good enough is never good. You're making them make better cards, and showing them there is competition. Thank you for your work. 

Thank you also for the signed Exquisite deck you gave Don. That's been a great contest for us here. Hopefully we'll be able to do something like that again [cough, cough]Hint[/cough] 

Perhaps we shall, though maybe for the next contest, the prize will be a VINTAGE deck... 

The results of the contest drawings are in...

[HolyJJ]

Welcome Sir!

It's great to know that one of the mostly highly respected people in the business has a presence on these forums also.

I've only been into collecting cards and learning slight of hand for roughly a year, but in that time I've learnt that the cards from CARC (and now also the EPCC) are the real deal.

The fact that CARC insists on traditionally cut cards (where as most others seem not to care) is another thing that makes them my favourite. I'm into gambling slights, and so I absolutely loved the look and feel of the original Erdnase Smith back cards -- in fact they're still my 'go to' cards whenever I want to demonstrate bottom dealing to others.

Keep up the great work Mr Kalush, and thank you (and the entire CARC team) for giving us some of the best cards around

[52plusjoker]

Hi Bill
Great to have you on board. Your knowledge and desire to help will be a big strength to our members.

Don - Good idea to have a VINTAGE deck for the next contest. I know where you can get one at a very good price, perhaps even a donation!

Cheers

[WKalush]

Thank you to everyone for the kind welcome.
I'm delighted to participate in the forum and very happy that it's now Tom's baby and will be more integrated into the 52 Plus Joker.

bk

[splice42]

Mr. Kalush, it's a pleasure to see you on these forums. I am a playing card and Erdnase enthusiast, and I have to say I really, really appreciate the work you've been doing in both respects. I have an order on for the Erdnase rarities from CARC. I'm not sure who drove this sale, but please pass on my thanks. I've been looking out for a green cover bible edition for at least 5 years! Now I can finally have all (?) three colours. I've also got a few Exquisite decks on that order, I've heard great things about them.

I play poker and I mostly use the cards I buy in my game. I find it adds variety, and I just like having something different from the same-old same-old bikes or bees. Unfortunately, I sometimes find it difficult to find decks which both look nice and are appropriate to the game. For example, I just love the design and finish of the Fulton's Casino cards, but I nearly cried when I saw they flipped both the heart and spade indices upside-down, used small indices in the corners, and modified the center pips of the ace of hearts, diamonds and clubs to be a kind of shadow of the pip, inside a different pip (ace of hearts is the white shadow outline of a heart inside a spade pip, and so on). I can't see myself using these in a game, there would be too much confusion.

I'm not sure what your plans are for the future, but if somehow you were able to get a deck out with standard indices (size and shape) and ivory stock (looooove that ivory stock), I would surely be putting in an order! I might not even mind what back it has, except if it had an obvious cheating related design. I'm still a bit wary of introducing D&D's Erdnase deck for that reason. It's got a nice, simple design, but the references to Erdnase aren't exactly the kind of thing I'd like to bring up in the middle of a poker game, oh well.

At any rate, very nice to see you here, and I hope you have a pleasant time!

[Don Boyer]

I'm still a bit wary of introducing D&D's Erdnase deck for that reason. It's got a nice, simple design, but the references to Erdnase aren't exactly the kind of thing I'd like to bring up in the middle of a poker game, oh well.

I was unaware that D&D made an Erdnase deck.  Which one is it?  The only one they sell is one of the CARC models.

[splice42]

Yes, both decks I can see on the D&D website are CARC productions. The one I'm referring to isn't there any more, I think it's out of print. This is the deck I'm talking about. There's only a picture of the back there though, you can get a better view here. I have about a brick left of the first edition. They're pretty nice; standard faces except for a custom ace of spade and jokers, a bee back in green with a border, and a somewhat thin and flexy stock with a cambric finish. I like the design but I'm not in love with how fragile they are. I practice the table faro shuffle and the corners get banged up more easily than other decks. They do faro the right way for it though, and as long as I don't force them too much, they'll stay in good shape. Of course, given the kind of handling cards are given in a poker game populated with players who don't handle cards day in and day out, they would likely get damaged enough not to last more than one game. That's paper for you, though.

[WKalush]

Hi Splice,
Thanks for the kind comments and I'm very glad you will get one of these green bibles. I made those originally just for myself to give friends from time to time. Last year we released a handful at Christmas and thought this would be nice again this year.
Regarding Erdnase cards. I think the D & D Erdnase deck you are referring to is actually our Erdnaseum deck. Dan and Dave were partners on the run in that they paid for half of it and sold half of it but we actually did the design.
The deck that fits your criteria closest is our Erdnase 216 deck which is the Bee 216 back and original Bee faces. The spots are very similar to modern ones and the Courts are original Bee and not exactly like modern but similar. I'm very proud of the finish on these cards as it is as close as I could possibly make with modern technology to a Bee deck from the time of Erdnase. It took a great deal of research to create that finish. Have you tried them?
We are doing one final deck in our Erdnase series (Smith V3 or Signature Edition) and I can say that it will be bordered, green and quite different than any others we have done. Unfortunately I don't think we will do any in a smooth or ivory finish. And one thing that sort of disqualifies them for your use is that we will once again use the old USPCC courts and spots that have smaller indices (like all the Smith and Acorn series did). Sorry about that! One good thing though is the name Conjuring Arts won't be on the deck. Some have complained that this sometimes makes an observant spectator (in your case another player) suspicious that he cards are marked or gimmicked in some way.

bk

Yes, both decks I can see on the D&D website are CARC productions. The one I'm referring to isn't there any more, I think it's out of print. This is the deck I'm talking about.

I believe that deck was done by Brent Geris of the Magic Apple. Our original Erdnase 1902 were stuck in the USPCC pipeline when those came out. I was a little disappointed that ours weren't first but that's my fault for not being pushier with USPCC.

bk

Cool, glad to hear you will work with USPC again! About test print runs, have you ever had a run go well and sold it? Such as one of Erdnase decks or other USPC CARC decks? Also what do you do with the remaining decks from a test run?

Hi John,
The test runs I have done I've used standard backs (Bees and Bicycles) and most of the results were excellent. But since they don't strictly conform to what Bee and Bicycle retail feels like we agreed not to retail them. So I just use them myself! (and the Bees especially were terrific). These tests were how we created what I call the "Erdnase Finish" for our Erdnase 216 deck. I would say the Erdnase 216 came out about 85% as good as the results of our most successful test run.
Hope these few details help.

bk

[Don Boyer]

Thanks for all of that info, Bill - have I mentioned that it's good to have you here?

Note that I combined your posts.  If you have something new to say moments after a post and no one has yet commented, simply edit the existing post and add the new information.

[52plusjoker]

A guy could get to like all this new-fangled stuff!!!

[Anthony]

So I was getting caught up on some scanning and pictures for my collection and came across this "King of Hearts", which if my research is accurate should be recognized by Bill........is my research right?

[Don Boyer]

So I was getting caught up on some scanning and pictures for my collection and came across this "King of Hearts", which if my research is accurate should be recognized by Bill........is my research right?

Yup, that's the man!  He doesn't have a beard IRL, though.

[HandSkillz]

Hi Bill!
It's great to have you here on the forums.  Don recommended I pick up some of your Exquisites, and they have hands down been my favorite deck since (you can actually see them fanned in my profile picture).

I look forward to seeing you in the community and seeing all of your future releases.  Thanks so much for everything so far!

-B

[john]

Cool, glad to hear you will work with USPC again! About test print runs, have you ever had a run go well and sold it? Such as one of Erdnase decks or other USPC CARC decks? Also what do you do with the remaining decks from a test run?

Hi John,
The test runs I have done I've used standard backs (Bees and Bicycles) and most of the results were excellent. But since they don't strictly conform to what Bee and Bicycle retail feels like we agreed not to retail them. So I just use them myself! (and the Bees especially were terrific). These tests were how we created what I call the "Erdnase Finish" for our Erdnase 216 deck. I would say the Erdnase 216 came out about 85% as good as the results of our most successful test run.
Hope these few details help.

bk

Interesting, thank you for that! Is there a reason why they were only 85% as good?

Also you mentioned before in your previous post that a Smith Back v3 would be happening eventually. Any idea when? Why no smooth finish? Lastly is it safe to assume they will be Bee Casino and the regular ol' finish?

[MagikFingerz]

Bill,

before reading this intro post of yours I thought all of your decks came from the same ("secret") factory. I wrote a summary of my impressions on all the non-USPCC CARC decks under this assumption, so learning that they're not from the same factory changes things a bit. I understand that you want to keep the names and specific locations of these factories a trade secret, but maybe you could give them arbitrary names like Taiwan A etc and list which factory printed which decks? This would be a great way to let us enthusiasts compare your decks with a more informed view and allow us to see (and give you feedback on) which factory is doing well or improving.

Just a thought.

[splice42]

Hi Bill,

I just received my package from CARC yesterday. I had added in a couple of decks of the 216s (along with 2 pairs of the Exquisite decks).

I have to say I'm really impressed with the 216s. I love the finish and the feel of the cards. It's close to casino cards for me, and that's right in my tastes. Not like the standard paper finishes, but not quite like plastic cards either. They just feel like they're build to last. I'm really pleased with the whole design job too. No pretense, no big "special edition" wording or stickers or references to Erdnase other than the bottom tuck, which never gets looked at or read anyway. 2 classic jokers, no fancy double backers or blank cards. Nice all around.

They're cut the right way for table faros, which I appreciate. The deck is a somewhat subtle one way design, which I guess is nice for some purposes. Not going to do much for me anyway, but it's subtle enough that it passes easily. Looking more closely at it, the all-over back design combined with the one way back gives the deck the same feature as the old Palmettos that Busby wrote about. Neat.

I really do like the old pip style. Those diamonds are just the nuts for me, I much prefer that old style to the new ones. Court cards are nice as well, the classic look is different but still more than familiar.

I might have to buy a brick or two soon. They're fine for the card table, they handle nicely for when I like to amuse myself with moves, and they have a tie-in to Erdnase and his enduring legend, which is all to the good. Thanks for a great deck.