slippery cards

[boss]

Hello guys,
I'm pretty new to cardistry and a week ago I bought an Bicycle Black Scorpion Deck. At the beginning it was pretty slippery but now it isn't anymore like this, when you hold it in your hands it feels a little bit sticky and the cards doesn't slip anymore that good. What can I do to get the cards again like they were at the beginning?
PS: Sorry for my bad english:)

[AtomSmash]

Hello guys,
I'm pretty new to cardistry and a week ago I bought an Bicycle Black Scorpion Deck. At the beginning it was pretty slippery but now it isn't anymore like this, when you hold it in your hands it feels a little bit sticky and the cards doesn't slip anymore that good. What can I do to get the cards again like they were at the beginning?
PS: Sorry for my bad english:)

Shouldn't this be in playing card plethora? 

Welcome to the discourse by the way 

[boss]

upps, my bad
is there a possibility to move the post?

[AtomSmash]

Wait for an admin to notice, Don checks the boards very regularly.

MESSAGE TO ADMIN:
Can this thread be moved to playing card plethora? Thanks.

[boss]

okay and do you have a solution for my problem?

[Don Boyer]

Hello guys,
I'm pretty new to cardistry and a week ago I bought an Bicycle Black Scorpion Deck. At the beginning it was pretty slippery but now it isn't anymore like this, when you hold it in your hands it feels a little bit sticky and the cards doesn't slip anymore that good. What can I do to get the cards again like they were at the beginning?
PS: Sorry for my bad english:)

Shouldn't this be in playing card plethora? 

Welcome to the discourse by the way 

Yeah, Boss, welcome from me, too.  You should make a new topic in the "Introduce Yourself" board, let the gang get to know you.

This is fine here - he's looking for ways to freshen up a deck for cardistry after it's a bit on the worn side.  It's kind of a cross-interest topic.

First, remember that there's a lot of decks like that, made around late 2009 or throughout 2010 that had some performance issues - USPC was getting the kinks worked out of the new plant at Erlanger.  Many people call it the shakedown period.

The BEST thing to do regarding deck performance is to start with a good deck!  These days, pretty much all custom decks are made with Magic Finish coating, which gives the cards a lasting slip.  From there, it's just a matter of whether you want a heavier stock or a lighter stock and a smooth finish or a textured finish.

Failing that, there's a number of things I've heard of that can help revive a deck - though eventually, you'll just need to replace them.

Some people think that refrigerating their decks will bring them back.  Haven't tested this yet.  A little time in a strong deck clip (like a Porper) or a card press will help - you can use a bunch of heavy books if you don't have a press, but take the cards out of the box or you'll crush it.  Storage in a cool, dry area works as well.  Some people swear by fanning powder, some can't stand it - it can help when properly applied, but that's the trick, isn't it?  I've also seen a video where someone took a deck of good moisturizing soap like Dove or Cashmere Bouquet, drawing an X on all of the card fronts and backs, and working them in a little.  He actually got a terribly performing deck, Bicycle Tragic Royalty, to perform like a new, smooth custom deck.

Wait for an admin to notice, Don checks the boards very regularly.

MESSAGE TO ADMIN:
Can this thread be moved to playing card plethora? Thanks.

You're right, I do, and I'm not the only staffer who does - so there's no need to point things out to me like this... 

[boss]

Thank you, I'm gonna try out those tipps.
So you also said that the newer decks aren't like that and keep their slip longer, right???

[AtomSmash]

You're right, I do, and I'm not the only staffer who does - so there's no need to point things out to me like this... 

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you're the only admin who does, you're just the first I thought of off the top of my head.

[Jonathan]

Hey Boss,

Another way that's been discussed on these forums fairly recently (although it was apparantly for dirty vintage decks) is using a banana to clean the front and back. It looks interesting and they posted a video on the topic but I haven't had a banana at home recently to try it out haha.
As for your problem; unfortunately I've heard that the bicycle black scorpions - while a great looking deck - are one of those decks that apparantly just don't perform as well and get run down fairly quickly.
If you can't clean them all is not lost however - my suggestion would be to get a new, inexpensive unlimited deck for practice use (such as nearly any decks from ellusionist, theory11, blue crown or house of playing cards for 3-8 USD) and keep the black scorpions for special occasions/display/ only use the black scorpions to practice flourishes where stickiness is a good thing (think cuts where you're holding a number of packets?). Having a clumpy deck isn't bad - for some flourishes it actually helps to learn them on a clumpy deck and then move to a slippery deck.

To give you an example my current setup is this:
I have an old standard blue bicycle deck (from the 1990s) that I use to practice and learn/improve my new moves. It's a little stickier than most of the new custom magic-finish decks from all the use.
I have another old standard blue bicycle deck in a stainless steel clip that I use to practice moves that really bend and warp the cards (read: card springs).
I then have a LTD blue from ellusionist (it's a standard, inexpensive, slippery deck) that I use to practice moves that I've gotten better at and want to try with a more slippery deck of cards.
And I'll have one or two more decks out that are my most recent acquisitions /just nice to look at (at the moment those are black madison rounders and green madison dealers)

Another thing that'll help in the future is to make sure you wash your hands before handling your deck of cards - cleaner hands, less dirt and oils get onto your cards and then they won't degrade as quickly.

[boss]

thank you for the reply
I wanted to buy the Artisans from Theory 11 and the Bicycle Prestige deck soon, are that decks that are more slippery?

[Jonathan]

thank you for the reply
I wanted to buy the Artisans from Theory 11 and the Bicycle Prestige deck soon, are that decks that are more slippery?

Yeah the artisans are a great deck and yeah they'll be slippery when you open them. I don't know how quickly they wear but I think they should be ok.
I don't have bicycle prestige cards so I can't say. They're the plastic cards aren't they? I suspect they would handle and wear completely differently
I'd recommend you get some standard bicycle decks if you don't already have them. They're good to practice with cause they're cheap and you don't feel bad if you drop/dirty/ruin them .

[Joker and the Thief]

Hello guys,
I'm pretty new to cardistry and a week ago I bought an Bicycle Black Scorpion Deck. At the beginning it was pretty slippery but now it isn't anymore like this, when you hold it in your hands it feels a little bit sticky and the cards doesn't slip anymore that good. What can I do to get the cards again like they were at the beginning?
PS: Sorry for my bad english:)

Hi man, ditch the black scorpion decks. In fact get rid of any Magic Makers cards or Karnival cards. You're best bet is to use Bicycle Rider Backs or even better Tally-Ho. They're cheap, reliable and they handle well. In fact Tally-Ho are in my list of favourite cards of all time. If you want really nice cards try and stay with, Dan and Dave, Theory11, Ellusionist and some of the great independent brands that are now popping up.

[MagikFingerz]

A good way to keep any deck in a condition as close to new as possible is to wash your hands every time before handling them, and whenever you feel like your hands get sweaty or oily within a session. This is particularly useful in hotter climates. Also try to limit the "contact time" of each card, so if you practice techniques that keep the deck in a dealer's grip do a cut every now and then to avoid the bottom card being in contact with your hand too much. In general, heat and moisture are bad for cards, so keep that in mind whenever handling a deck you want to keep in good shape.

[bhong]

Some people think that refrigerating their decks will bring them back.  Haven't tested this yet.

I actually got a chance to test this one by chance as I had a deck of cards in my bag while I was outside in the lovely Canadian cold last month. I'm not sure so much as bringing them back, but I found that the deck handles really nicely for awhile after being in the cold. I had a Legends V1 deck on me though. I should tested it out with a USPCC printed deck.

[Don Boyer]

Hi man, ditch the black scorpion decks. In fact get rid of any Magic Makers cards or Karnival cards. You're best bet is to use Bicycle Rider Backs or even better Tally-Ho. They're cheap, reliable and they handle well. In fact Tally-Ho are in my list of favourite cards of all time. If you want really nice cards try and stay with, Dan and Dave, Theory11, Ellusionist and some of the great independent brands that are now popping up.

I agree about the Karnivals up to a point.  The decks released before Bicycle Karnival Dead Eyes has some really bad handling over time - again, they were transition period decks.  Since then, they've been using Magic Finish like pretty much the rest of USPC's clients and the handling difference shows.  If I remember correctly, that transition period would cover the original versions (NOT the new colors or foil edition reprints) of:
Bicycle Karnival (white)
Bicycle Karnival Midnight (black)
Bicycle Karnival Assassins (red)
Bicycle Karnival Renegades (blue)
Bicycle Karnival Ryujin (what would you call that color?  It's kind of a coppery orange-brown, though not metallic...)

Of all those decks, only the Bicycle Karnival Ryujin hasn't been reprinted in some manner.  Karnival (the first) were reprinted in gold on white, Midnight had a foil edition, Renegades were reprinted in purple, and Assassins had both a reprint in green and a foil edition of the original red color.

[Joker and the Thief]

Hi man, ditch the black scorpion decks. In fact get rid of any Magic Makers cards or Karnival cards. You're best bet is to use Bicycle Rider Backs or even better Tally-Ho. They're cheap, reliable and they handle well. In fact Tally-Ho are in my list of favourite cards of all time. If you want really nice cards try and stay with, Dan and Dave, Theory11, Ellusionist and some of the great independent brands that are now popping up.

I agree about the Karnivals up to a point.  The decks released before Bicycle Karnival Dead Eyes has some really bad handling over time - again, they were transition period decks.  Since then, they've been using Magic Finish like pretty much the rest of USPC's clients and the handling difference shows.  If I remember correctly, that transition period would cover the original versions (NOT the new colors or foil edition reprints) of:
Bicycle Karnival (white)
Bicycle Karnival Midnight (black)
Bicycle Karnival Assassins (red)
Bicycle Karnival Renegades (blue)
Bicycle Karnival Ryujin (what would you call that color?  It's kind of a coppery orange-brown, though not metallic...)

Of all those decks, only the Bicycle Karnival Ryujin hasn't been reprinted in some manner.  Karnival (the first) were reprinted in gold on white, Midnight had a foil edition, Renegades were reprinted in purple, and Assassins had both a reprint in green and a foil edition of the original red color.

Up to and including Dead Eyes. They have horrific handling.
I think there is a reason a lot of Cardists and Magicians don't use Karnival Cards. My reason being, artistically they're very well done but with their grotesque themes they are simply ugly and unappealing. Plus (transition period or not) I would argue that there hasn't been an extremely good or even great handling deck of cards to ever come out of Karnival. No disrespect to you Don, but I'd just steer clear from Big Blind Media and Magic Makers in general.

[Don Boyer]

Up to and including Dead Eyes. They have horrific handling.
I think there is a reason a lot of Cardists and Magicians don't use Karnival Cards. My reason being, artistically they're very well done but with their grotesque themes they are simply ugly and unappealing. Plus (transition period or not) I would argue that there hasn't been an extremely good or even great handling deck of cards to ever come out of Karnival. No disrespect to you Don, but I'd just steer clear from Big Blind Media and Magic Makers in general.

Magic Makers, yes, I agree.  That yellow deck is so bright, it's practically radioactive.

As far as the deck, no, it's not a one-size-fits-most deck, but it really depends on the audience you're playing to.  I did some impromptu performing in a bar in Brooklyn where the Karnival Dose deck went over big.  The Karnival Bicycle Elite deck is utterly devoid of that grotesque imagery you find so ugly and unappealing.  No skulls, no blood, though still vaguely Gothic in design.

[Joker and the Thief]

Up to and including Dead Eyes. They have horrific handling.
I think there is a reason a lot of Cardists and Magicians don't use Karnival Cards. My reason being, artistically they're very well done but with their grotesque themes they are simply ugly and unappealing. Plus (transition period or not) I would argue that there hasn't been an extremely good or even great handling deck of cards to ever come out of Karnival. No disrespect to you Don, but I'd just steer clear from Big Blind Media and Magic Makers in general.

Magic Makers, yes, I agree.  That yellow deck is so bright, it's practically radioactive.

As far as the deck, no, it's not a one-size-fits-most deck, but it really depends on the audience you're playing to.  I did some impromptu performing in a bar in Brooklyn where the Karnival Dose deck went over big.  The Karnival Bicycle Elite deck is utterly devoid of that grotesque imagery you find so ugly and unappealing.  No skulls, no blood, though still vaguely Gothic in design.

Hahaha.

You're right, they certainly aren't one-size-fits-most deck. In terms of design. In terms of Cardistry and Handling they just don't look the part and they certainly don't feel the part. Even though the Bicycle elite is not grotesque it is certainly not a pretty deck of cards.

I adamantly believe that If you want a deck that handles well, looks great, is reliable and almost better in every single way you're better off sticking with Theory11, Ellusionist, Dan and Dave and USPCC... among some others.

[Don Boyer]

You're right, they certainly aren't one-size-fits-most deck. In terms of design. In terms of Cardistry and Handling they just don't look the part and they certainly don't feel the part. Even though the Bicycle elite is not grotesque it is certainly not a pretty deck of cards.

I adamantly believe that If you want a deck that handles well, looks great, is reliable and almost better in every single way you're better off sticking with Theory11, Ellusionist, Dan and Dave and USPCC... among some others.

Beauty, as I'm sure you know, is in the eye of the beholder.  I happen to like Bicycle Karnival Elite.

Well, nearly any custom deck printed by USPC is going to handle well - Magic Finish is the "great equalizer", I always say.  And they're no longer the only game in town, either.

[Joker and the Thief]

You're right, they certainly aren't one-size-fits-most deck. In terms of design. In terms of Cardistry and Handling they just don't look the part and they certainly don't feel the part. Even though the Bicycle elite is not grotesque it is certainly not a pretty deck of cards.

I adamantly believe that If you want a deck that handles well, looks great, is reliable and almost better in every single way you're better off sticking with Theory11, Ellusionist, Dan and Dave and USPCC... among some others.

Beauty, as I'm sure you know, is in the eye of the beholder.  I happen to like Bicycle Karnival Elite.

Well, nearly any custom deck printed by USPC is going to handle well - Magic Finish is the "great equalizer", I always say.  And they're no longer the only game in town, either.

That's your personal opinion and I'm cool with that.

I disagree with your Magic Finish statement though. I DO agree that Magic finish has rather generalised the FINISH on most cards. I still think though that there are so many more contributing factors that dictate how a USPCC deck is going to handle. The stock, for example, dramatically affects the handling. Almost every deck I've used, when put to use and under scrutiny, have handled and endured differently. I'm just against the ideology that in the USPCC Magic Finish is the only factor that will cause nearly any custom deck to handle well. 

[Jonathan]

That's your personal opinion and I'm cool with that.

I disagree with your Magic Finish statement though. I DO agree that Magic finish has rather generalised the FINISH on most cards. I still think though that there are so many more contributing factors that dictate how a USPCC deck is going to handle. The stock, for example, dramatically affects the handling. Almost every deck I've used, when put to use and under scrutiny, have handled and endured differently. I'm just against the ideology that in the USPCC Magic Finish is the only factor that will cause nearly any custom deck to handle well.

I think how a deck handles also depends on what kind of flourishing you're doing.
I'm no pro at cardistry/flourishes but honestly I'd prefer a thicker stocked wynn casino bee deck over a slippery USPCC/Ellusionist/Theory11 latest release for packet cuts (maybe when you get better at sybils and the WERM you won't drop cards from packets regardless of the slipperiness but at the moment I sometimes drop/lose packets when using smoother decks haha).
For fans and spreads - of course you can't go past the smoothness of them big companies' decks though.

[boss]

Thank you for all your replies, I think i will put my black scorpion deck aside and buy me two raider backs, two tally hos and a artisan deck

[MagikFingerz]

Thank you for all your replies, I think i will put my black scorpion deck aside and buy me two raider backs, two tally hos and a artisan deck

If you can find them, I highly recommend getting some Tally Ho's printed in Cincinatti, Ohio. All of USPCC's decks were MUCH better before the factory moved to Kentucky, and Tallys were the cream of the crop (without going too far back in time). The bottom of the box should say where they were printed, and in most cases red or blue seals also means OH (though there was an overlap in when the factory moved and when they switched to black seals.

[ruicorreia]

   Hi Boss!

   Regarding your question, you've had already very proper advices, specialy by Don and MagikFingerz.
So I will do only two comments.
   First, the refrigeration advice. It helps the deck when the problem is the humidity (in the air and/or in your hands). The best thing is refrigerate the deck and then save it in a dry place for some weeks. You'll see that makes a difference.
   Second the fanning powder. I still think that when correctly applied is very useful. Here's how I do it: take a really small portion of powder (I mean, really, REALLY small) in a paper bag, put the cards inside, close the bag and shake it well. Then the boring part: with a dry cloth, pass it on the faces and backs of every card to remove the excess of powder. Reasemble the deck, clean all 4 edges of the deck, dhuffle it some times, do some faroes and it should gain a new life. And it's not too much to remember this: use only a really small portion of powder. In this case, less is more.
   
   

[Don Boyer]

Thank you for all your replies, I think i will put my black scorpion deck aside and buy me two raider backs, two tally hos and a artisan deck

If you can find them, I highly recommend getting some Tally Ho's printed in Cincinatti, Ohio. All of USPCC's decks were MUCH better before the factory moved to Kentucky, and Tallys were the cream of the crop (without going too far back in time). The bottom of the box should say where they were printed, and in most cases red or blue seals also means OH (though there was an overlap in when the factory moved and when they switched to black seals.

I would agree that the early Erlanger stuff wasn't so great, but by this point they're actually producing better cards than Cincinnati did in its final months.  The only exception would be Bicycles because they switched to a lighter stock due to problems with the new printer, probably the web press.  The troublesome decks were made in late 2009 and most of 2010.  By 2011, they were making good-quality decks.