Fake Jerry's Nuggets?

[Jonathan]

Hey guys, wasn't sure where this post should go - I read the STISO possible frauds section but I don't think it fits those rules so I'm sticking it here now.

There's one seller on ebay with these two listings
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Jerrys-Nugget-blue-Opened-vintage-deck-great-condition-/291049743767?pt=AU_PaperPostcards&hash=item43c3eaa597&_uhb=1

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Jerrys-Nugget-blue-sealed-vintage-deck-great-condition-/291049744813?pt=AU_PaperPostcards&hash=item43c3eaa9ad&_uhb=1

Until I went to Hong Kong recently I didn't know about the existence of hi fidelity jerry's nuggets fakes and probably would have tried to bid on these thinking they were a good deal.
But thanks to the Discourse I have a suspicion this seller is seller counterfeit ones as authentic whether knowingly or otherwise.
Should all authentic Jerry's Nuggets come with a CoA or are those only the ones Lee Asher sells (at the moment the 2014 Lee Asher J Nuggs sale, and possibly 2015 sale are where I plan to get my Jerry's Nuggets, not eBay)?
And I'm not sure if this has been discussed in detail before but is there a way to tell authentic from counterfeit? Is there a particular batch number that isn't good/gets counterfeited a lot? I suspect Lee might have a bunch of knowledge on this topic?

Cheers guys, and I hope no one on these boards is being suckered on those listings (that is under my assumption that they're not authentic listings)

[John B.]

I think there are ways of telling. Don and Lee Asher might be able to tell you. I would say the decks look way to nice to be real. This is an old deck. They dont look this nice.

[Nurul]

Well, I know that the person selling it is a member of the discourse. He was pretty active before, haven't seen a post from him in a while, but they do look very good and clean. I'm no expert, Lee Asher would definitely know.

[agera94]

Hi I am the 'counterfeit' seller. The lighting and the flash of the camera probably wasn't the best combination for taking photos. I have one opened nugget deck that I purchased from Lee and have the sealed red one that I also bought from his previous years sale. The opened deck I am selling was purchased from Allan Ackerman - a well known magician that was selling opened nugget decks over a few months last year, and the nugget with a rip I purchased from world wide collectibles, a well reputed vintage deck seller on eBay. I've tried taking photos without the flash and with some better lighting conditions. The wearing on the opened deck should now be visible. As far as I can feel with the opened nuggets, they handle and feel like the opened nuggets I had opened from Lee Ashers sale.






To view the images, if they don't load, right click and view.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit 

[Sher143]

Taken from Lee Asher's website: http://www.leeasher.com/playground/articles/how_to_spot_fake_jerrys_nugget_playing_cards.html

1. Color

Genuine 1970 Jerry's Nugget cards were only printed in two colors: red and blue. If the pack(s) in your collection are orange, black, green, etc., then there's a great chance your decks are fake.

2. Security Band

If you're lucky enough to purchase an AS ISSUED deck of Jerry's Nugget Playing Cards, the cellophane contains a red-striped security band. If that band is any other color, then your deck(s) are not real.

3. Tax Stamp

Authentic 1970 Jerry's Nugget decks have a perforated United States Playing Card Company tax stamp. If the stamp on your deck(s) are actually printed stickers, then your decks are not legitimate.

4. Date Stamp

Genuine Jerry's Nugget decks have the year 1970 printed on the inside flap of their tuck box. You must rip open the box to see it. If date is not printed there, then you own imitation Jerry's Nugget Playing Cards. By the way, this is not the preferred method of authentication, as it should be considered among one of your last resorts.

5. Textures

Look at the texture of the paper on the face and back of the cards. The faces feature vertical lines running from top to bottom while the backs display an overall pattern of dimpled squares, textures imparted to the cards by the giant rollers which pressed the glue between the face and back sheets. If your cards lack these vertical lines and these vertical lines and these dimpled squares, then you most likely own forgeries.

[agera94]

Ok managed to take a close up of the front and back of a card. I will upload them at the native image resolution to allow you to zoom in and do the forensics yourself. Also to answer the question of the OP, as far as I know, decks that came from the gift shop did not come with certificates of authenticity because they were just sold casually. The CoA's from Lee are mini replicas and just there to state that 'yes this is legitimate'. I'm still trying to take the most clear picture that I can take.
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[agera94]

Sorry for the double post. Took some more pictures.

Contrasting the 'whiteness'



Vertical lines?

[Don Boyer]

I'm more curious about why your Bicycle Maiden Backs have a T11 logo on the bottom!  When did they start making them?

[agera94]

I'm more curious about why your Bicycle Maiden Backs have a T11 logo on the bottom!  When did they start making them?

Andy Nymans - the code - the deck comes with the dvd.

[jmrock]

I'm more curious about why your Bicycle Maiden Backs have a T11 logo on the bottom!  When did they start making them?

My goodness Don… Does anything get by you???

[agera94]

Would really like to get this situation resolved. Where is the big man, Lee Asher?

[Lee Asher]

Great questions, and comments everyone!

I'm not sure if this has been discussed in detail before but is there a way to tell authentic from counterfeit?

There are a handful of ways to tell if the decks are counterfeit. Even the hi fidelity fakes have some tells. While some methods are publicly listed in articles I've written (link posted here and above), there are a few methods for spotting fakes that remain private in order not to tip-off the counterfeiters.

BTW, learn more about the near-perfect fakes here.

After looking closely at Agera94's pics on this thread, his cards seem pretty legit. I cannot be 100% sure because they aren't in my hands, but I would say they are real Jerry's Nugget Playing Cards. Go ahead, and bid with confidence.

@Agera94 - If you picked up decks from Al Ackerman, then you have real JNuggs. Al is as honest as they come, and has lived in Vegas over 40 years. Al was one of the main reasons why I moved to Las Vegas for University. He's one of my heroes!

Should all authentic Jerry's Nuggets come with a CoA or are those only the ones Lee Asher sells (at the moment the 2014 Lee Asher J Nuggs sale, and possibly 2015 sale are where I plan to get my Jerry's Nuggets, not eBay)?

Only the JNuggs sold by me have CoAs. As mentioned above, the paper basically says THIS DECK IS REAL.

I would say the decks look way to nice to be real. This is an old deck. They don't look this nice.

@JohnB Don't let your eyes deceive you. If cared for properly, JNuggs (or any deck) can look pristine and brand new. I've even seen cards from the 1800's that looked brand new.

Grade is certainly a major factor in pricing, but not so much in authentication.

Hope that helps...

Lee Asher

[Jonathan]

Agera94
First up I'd sincerely like to apologise if I've caused you any offence whatsoever by stating/implying your listing was fake.
I hope my words didn't offend you or anyone else; I reread my initial post; the message I meant to convey was: "are these real and how can one tell?"
The thing that set off a small alarm in my head was no mention of a CoA - I'm new to card collecting and thought that all the J Nuggs had to come with one - I'm glad that's cleared up .
I'm glad I'm a member of the discourse and even more glad that agera94 is.
Now to take a good hard look at the budget and see if these can be fit in yet hahaha .

Mind if I ask why you're selling them agera94? (Also, do you have more sales planned in the future? Because if so, I'd be a potential customer, I live in Queensland like you so not having to pay international shipping is a huge plus ).

[agera94]

Hi Jonathan, look no hard feelings at the end of the day. I understand what it must be like after your experience in Hong Kong and I'd also like to say a big thank you to Lee himself Lee is also very correct when he says that a good condition nugget deck can look very nice - the two I had bought from his sales are very white indeed.

I'm selling them to: thin down the collection a bit, and to just recoup some money - I've recently build a rather grand computer costing upwards of $4k.

Now knowing that you're in Queensland, if you're ever after any decks you can hit me up via PM and we can always try to work out something. As for planned sales in the future, if I see that the collection can use some thinning then by all means; not just with Jerry's but with other decks too.

[fredv]

What is funny is that these 2 decks seem to have been sold to a french guy who has already sold them on a forum now ...

Jerry's Nugget cards are travelling all around the world 

Studying Nuggets (Golden or Jerry) for almost a year now, i think there are not so many fakes and you can find many opened decks with perfect cards. 

I think the best fakes (Lee was talking about them) almost look older than real decks

With an opened deck it's quite easy to find proof of real or fake deck.
I have made photos of 15 ways to find the real ones from the fakes, if it can help
http://seamonsters.fr/nuggets/jerrys-nugget-fake-real/