$1 decks from T11

[Nurul]

Theory 11 are selling blue bikes for $1 for the next 72 hours

http://bit.ly/bicyt11?cc=34b53105f17f90db16b8c8dba34c7ec4

[Don Boyer]

Theory 11 are selling blue bikes for $1 for the next 72 hours

http://bit.ly/bicyt11?cc=34b53105f17f90db16b8c8dba34c7ec4

On the surface it seems a little strange, but then, when you think about it, it actually makes sense that they'd be a little overstocked on blue Rider Backs.  We all know that the Rider Back has more gaffs designed in that style than pretty much any other deck on Earth.  What some don't realize is that some of those gaffs only come in a red-backed version.  Thus, magicians may be inclined to buy more red than blue.

This is a good sign, actually - a clearance like this doesn't usually occur unless the company is creating new products and needs the stock room space for them!

[BiggerDee]

I bought a few bricks and they came in today. I was surprised to find out that these were Cincinnati decks. Pleasantly surprised.

[Don Boyer]

I bought a few bricks and they came in today. I was surprised to find out that these were Cincinnati decks. Pleasantly surprised.

Are the seals black, blue or red?  A black seal means there's a better-than-even chance the deck was made in Erlanger and placed in a Cincinnati box.

[Sher143]

What's the difference between Erlanger and Cincinnati factories? The Cincinnati ones are better? And what's the story behind the seals? Terribly curious.

[Don Boyer]

What's the difference between Erlanger and Cincinnati factories? The Cincinnati ones are better? And what's the story behind the seals? Terribly curious.

Cincinnati, Ohio was the old factory that shut down in 2009.  By about August of that year, operations had been shifted to Erlanger, Kentucky - a suburb of Cincinnati that's actually a bit closer to the metropolitan area's international airport.

There was a notable drop in quality with the shift to Kentucky.  For custom decks, it was simply a "shakedown" period when they were ironing out the kinks of the new printing equipment.  For the bread-and-butter products like Bicycle Rider Backs, the quality was believed to have been lowered just a tiny bit - enough for some people to at least think they've noticed it.  For example, I have a pack of Tally Ho Circle Backs in a Cincinnati Box that were made in Kentucky in '10 that have inconsistent shades of color on the card backs, almost as if they'd been cut from a few different sheets from different portions of the print run.

The biggest issue in the shakedown period was noted in their custom work.  They had to adjust their Bicycle stock to be just a little lighter (from about 325 g/m² to 300 g/m²) in order to work better in the new Heidelburg printing press.  That in itself wasn't a problem, but at some point many decks had finish issues, especially those with unusual or metallic inks - some examples would be the Stephen Rooks decks he printed with backing from Diavoli in Germany and USPC's own Bicycle Tragic Royalty deck, which used a heavy grey in on most of the cards' surfaces and a fluorescent, UV-sensitive ink on the court faces.

With the development of Magic Finish, first commercially used on Ellusionist's Gold Arcane deck as a real-world test of the product, followed by the subsequent policy change making the new coating the default finish for custom decks, the problems seem to have become a thing of the past.  I'm certain the time spent learning the ins and outs of the new machines was also a contributing factor.  Any custom decks and most standard decks made roughly from 2011 to present in Erlanger would likely exceed the quality of the Cincinnati plant in its final few years at the least.

[BiggerDee]

I'll have to double-check, but I believe that it's blue. It's definitely not red though.

Also of note is that there are many folks who swear that the Cincinnati decks are much better. I'm not professional enough to note any difference myself but whether real or imaginary, many folks place a higher personal value on the OH decks for their use.

I bought these for my kids to use with their friends. Teens tend to be rough on cards and I'll gladly let them use these as they see fit. On an interesting side note, when my kids have a couple of diozen teens over and they are all piled into mty game room, the girls are always the ones sitting at, and crowded around, the poker table. The guys want to sit in the theater and watch a movie and the girls want to play poker, or do something else in the game room with one of the other tables. Smashed that stereotype that I had pre-made in my mind!

[jwats01]

What's the difference between Erlanger and Cincinnati factories? The Cincinnati ones are better? And what's the story behind the seals? Terribly curious.

Cincinnati, Ohio was the old factory that shut down in 2009.  By about August of that year, operations had been shifted to Erlanger, Kentucky - a suburb of Cincinnati that's actually a bit closer to the metropolitan area's international airport.

There was a notable drop in quality with the shift to Kentucky.  For custom decks, it was simply a "shakedown" period when they were ironing out the kinks of the new printing equipment.  For the bread-and-butter products like Bicycle Rider Backs, the quality was believed to have been lowered just a tiny bit - enough for some people to at least think they've noticed it.  For example, I have a pack of Tally Ho Circle Backs in a Cincinnati Box that were made in Kentucky in '10 that have inconsistent shades of color on the card backs, almost as if they'd been cut from a few different sheets from different portions of the print run.

The biggest issue in the shakedown period was noted in their custom work.  They had to adjust their Bicycle stock to be just a little lighter (from about 325 g/m² to 300 g/m²) in order to work better in the new Heidelburg printing press.  That in itself wasn't a problem, but at some point many decks had finish issues, especially those with unusual or metallic inks - some examples would be the Stephen Rooks decks he printed with backing from Diavoli in Germany and USPC's own Bicycle Tragic Royalty deck, which used a heavy grey in on most of the cards' surfaces and a fluorescent, UV-sensitive ink on the court faces.

With the development of Magic Finish, first commercially used on Ellusionist's Gold Arcane deck as a real-world test of the product, followed by the subsequent policy change making the new coating the default finish for custom decks, the problems seem to have become a thing of the past.  I'm certain the time spent learning the ins and outs of the new machines was also a contributing factor.  Any custom decks and most standard decks made roughly from 2011 to present in Erlanger would likely exceed the quality of the Cincinnati plant in its final few years at the least.

Thanks for that concise explanation Don. I'd only previously read about the change in physical locations, but not the detail of the difference. Interesting to note that today's cards are better than the last few years in OH. Were earlier years in OH of higher quality than today's cards?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[Sher143]

What's the difference between Erlanger and Cincinnati factories? The Cincinnati ones are better? And what's the story behind the seals? Terribly curious.

Cincinnati, Ohio was the old factory that shut down in 2009.  By about August of that year, operations had been shifted to Erlanger, Kentucky - a suburb of Cincinnati that's actually a bit closer to the metropolitan area's international airport.

There was a notable drop in quality with the shift to Kentucky.  For custom decks, it was simply a "shakedown" period when they were ironing out the kinks of the new printing equipment.  For the bread-and-butter products like Bicycle Rider Backs, the quality was believed to have been lowered just a tiny bit - enough for some people to at least think they've noticed it.  For example, I have a pack of Tally Ho Circle Backs in a Cincinnati Box that were made in Kentucky in '10 that have inconsistent shades of color on the card backs, almost as if they'd been cut from a few different sheets from different portions of the print run.

The biggest issue in the shakedown period was noted in their custom work.  They had to adjust their Bicycle stock to be just a little lighter (from about 325 g/m² to 300 g/m²) in order to work better in the new Heidelburg printing press.  That in itself wasn't a problem, but at some point many decks had finish issues, especially those with unusual or metallic inks - some examples would be the Stephen Rooks decks he printed with backing from Diavoli in Germany and USPC's own Bicycle Tragic Royalty deck, which used a heavy grey in on most of the cards' surfaces and a fluorescent, UV-sensitive ink on the court faces.

With the development of Magic Finish, first commercially used on Ellusionist's Gold Arcane deck as a real-world test of the product, followed by the subsequent policy change making the new coating the default finish for custom decks, the problems seem to have become a thing of the past.  I'm certain the time spent learning the ins and outs of the new machines was also a contributing factor.  Any custom decks and most standard decks made roughly from 2011 to present in Erlanger would likely exceed the quality of the Cincinnati plant in its final few years at the least.

Thanks for the info, Don!

How did you figure out that the ones with the black seals were Erlanger made cards placed in Cincinnati boxes?

[BiggerDee]

They are black seals.

[Don Boyer]

Thanks for the info, Don!

How did you figure out that the ones with the black seals were Erlanger made cards placed in Cincinnati boxes?

Someone else figured it out before me and passed on the info.

[Aptombstone]

Hey Don, or anyone else that might know, did the Bee decks see any change in quality in the transition phase? I've handled a Kentucky and Ohio version and couldn't notice any difference.

[Don Boyer]

Hey Don, or anyone else that might know, did the Bee decks see any change in quality in the transition phase? I've handled a Kentucky and Ohio version and couldn't notice any difference.

I haven't heard anything regarding that.

[Sher143]

Thanks for the info, Don!

How did you figure out that the ones with the black seals were Erlanger made cards placed in Cincinnati boxes?

Someone else figured it out before me and passed on the info.

Oh, okay. I was kinda wondering how that person knew for sure the cards were made in Erlanger, but I think I got it.

Coincidentally, by boyfriend just recently bought me pack of blue bikes for me to use (since he knows I don't open most of my decks) and it was a Cincinnati box, too. It had a black seal. Upon closer inspection,  I noticed on one of the jokers under that the USPCC address that was listed was Erlanger, Kentucky.

[Don Boyer]

Thanks for the info, Don!

How did you figure out that the ones with the black seals were Erlanger made cards placed in Cincinnati boxes?

Someone else figured it out before me and passed on the info.

Oh, okay. I was kinda wondering how that person knew for sure the cards were made in Erlanger, but I think I got it.

Coincidentally, by boyfriend just recently bought me pack of blue bikes for me to use (since he knows I don't open most of my decks) and it was a Cincinnati box, too. It had a black seal. Upon closer inspection,  I noticed on one of the jokers under that the USPCC address that was listed was Erlanger, Kentucky.

You can also get some idea of where it was made if the jokers are missing.  I'm not certain if the Ace of Spades code was "updated" at that time to include the four-digit prefix, but at least the letter will reveal the year of manufacture - operations were moved to Erlanger by late August 2009, though I'm sure there was some degree of overlap where Erlanger was running prior to that date and Cincinnati was running after.  It becomes more of an exact science if you see date codes corresponding to 2010 - I think Cincinnati was pretty much a done deal by then.

This is Lee Asher's chart on the dating codes.  It's pretty solid information, but covers just the letter codes - and I'm told for some decks, even the letter code isn't enough.  The code certainly applies for decks that have a letter followed by a four digit number, and also for modern decks that have four digits, a letter and four digits.  The last four digits are some sort of internal code that no one's been able to make heads or tails of, probably dealing with things like tracking, lot, etc.  The first four digits (only in modern decks that actually have them) are a more direct date: the first two are the number of the week in the year in which they were made, and the last two digits are the last two digits of the year.

For example: an older deck marked E2356S could be from 1923, '43, '63, '83 or 2003 - other cues in the deck and tuckbox would help with determining age, such as a barcode on the box (barcodes weren't used until the '80s, I think, but certainly not earlier).  (Ignore the last letter in the code.)

A more modern deck marked 1210-M2591L would have been made on the 12th week of 2010, about late March.

[CrankUP]

NOOOOOOO I missed out on the sale D:

[Don Boyer]

Sher - I accidentally left out the link

http://www.leeasher.com/playground/articles/how_to_date_a_deck_of_cards.html

NOOOOOOO I missed out on the sale D:

That was last week or so - where were you?

The sale was only for blue Rider Backs, that's it.

[rousselle]

Does anybody here know anybody who is a "member" at Costco?

You can pick up a brick of brand new bikes for $14 and change at Costco. Add your local sales tax, and that's *still* less than the sale price from T11 plus shipping.

[Don Boyer]

Does anybody here know anybody who is a "member" at Costco?

You can pick up a brick of brand new bikes for $14 and change at Costco. Add your local sales tax, and that's *still* less than the sale price from T11 plus shipping.

Factoring in T11 shipping, yes, that makes sense.  I'm pretty sure they sell them as one of their many loss leaders - a product they intentionally lose money on in order to get you in the door and shopping for other products, because let's face it, how often do ordinary mortals go to Costco and buy only a brick of Bicycles, nothing else?  It's difficult to shop sensibly in mega-stores like those.