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What brings long term value?

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What brings long term value?
« on: January 27, 2014, 04:44:31 PM »
 

Lukeout

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I'm new to collecting, and I'm not interested in collecting for value so much as just enjoying all the decks. But I come from an industry of collectables and it seems each has it's own pattern for items that become valuable. The obvious ones are rarity (how many are made) and scarcity (how hard is it to get).

There seems to be a few additional ones in playing cards. Some seem to have built in tricks in the tuck boxes (I need to get some of those - would love some recommendations).

There does seem to be a a specific design aesthetic that seems popular for decks on release, but so many decks are released with that general aesthetic that it seems like it would be a minor factor in long term collecting.

I know in toys, some odd trends played out that fought against rarity - where super popular toys became very valuable later due to the high % of copies that were destroyed in play (early Smurf happy meal toys, etc...) That trend sort of started the "Mint In Box" collecting idea that seems to have taken hold with playing cards as well.

What feature do you think will make a specific deck of cards worth more in the future?
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Re: What brings long term value?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 05:00:34 PM »
 

Sher143

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Aside from rarity and scarcity,  I would think maybe unique features that can no longer be replicated.  Like maybe something USPCC (or any company) no longer does,  such as the manufacturing process used to make Jerry's Nuggets,  UV500 stock,  custom die cuts on the tuck box,  gilded edges,  etc. 
 

Re: What brings long term value?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 05:15:39 PM »
 

doubledouble

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Maybe the first production run of a deck that uses a new finish which becomes accepted/new standard. With new methods of making cards and experiments by companies like EPCC this hypothetical deck might be here soon.



 

Re: What brings long term value?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 05:39:31 PM »
 

Nurul

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Aside from rarity and scarcity,  I would think maybe unique features that can no longer be replicated.  Like maybe something USPCC (or any company) no longer does,  such as the manufacturing process used to make Jerry's Nuggets,  UV500 stock,  custom die cuts on the tuck box,  gilded edges,  etc.

You can still get gilded edged decks. The handmade luxuries from blue crown and a small selection of pagan decks are probably the most recent ones to have them done.

I want to see vellum paper which were used to wrap decks, again.
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Re: What brings long term value?
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2014, 06:07:42 PM »
 

52plusjoker

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I'm new to collecting, and I'm not interested in collecting for value so much as just enjoying all the decks. But I come from an industry of collectables and it seems each has it's own pattern for items that become valuable. The obvious ones are rarity (how many are made) and scarcity (how hard is it to get).

There seems to be a few additional ones in playing cards. Some seem to have built in tricks in the tuck boxes (I need to get some of those - would love some recommendations).

There does seem to be a a specific design aesthetic that seems popular for decks on release, but so many decks are released with that general aesthetic that it seems like it would be a minor factor in long term collecting.

I know in toys, some odd trends played out that fought against rarity - where super popular toys became very valuable later due to the high % of copies that were destroyed in play (early Smurf happy meal toys, etc...) That trend sort of started the "Mint In Box" collecting idea that seems to have taken hold with playing cards as well.

What feature do you think will make a specific deck of cards worth more in the future?
Thoughts from a collector of antique and vintage cards.
Value, like almost everything, is dictated by supply and demand [and I barely passed Economics 101]. So scarcity is huge - in the antique area that could mean one to ten decks known. Condition is also huge. For example a mint Bicycle deck from 1890 might be $4-500 whereas a well-played with deck might fetch $100. Completeness also key - missing card or Joker or box has a big impact. Few of us collect for value appreciation - but it is a factor in one's thinking. Finally one thing that really impacts value in older cards is the cross-over impact. Best example is old advertising decks say 1910. A mint complete ad deck for xyz cola might be worth $150. But if it was for Coca-Cola we'll make that $2000 plus.
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Re: What brings long term value?
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2014, 07:39:17 PM »
 

Yashi

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You can still get gilded edged decks. The handmade luxuries from blue crown and a small selection of pagan decks are probably the most recent ones to have them done.

I think Uusi mentioned that they will be gilding it themselves. Sher must have been referring to USPCC doing the gilding.
 

Re: What brings long term value?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2014, 09:18:23 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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How about this everyone? You come up with the definitive list of criteria and I will make a deck that hits everything and sell them for $1000 a piece.  :D

What?
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Re: What brings long term value?
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2014, 09:42:16 PM »
 

Yashi

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How about this everyone? You come up with the definitive list of criteria and I will make a deck that hits everything and sell them for $1000 a piece.  :D

What?

Only if it's signed, numbered, limited to 1 deck, and comes in an indestructible packet jacket.. :D
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 09:44:14 PM by Yashi »
 

Re: What brings long term value?
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2014, 10:05:38 PM »
 

PurpleIce

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How about this everyone? You come up with the definitive list of criteria and I will make a deck that hits everything and sell them for $1000 a piece.  :D

What?

Only if it's signed, numbered, limited to 1 deck, and comes in an indestructible packet jacket.. :D

And comes in UV500 card stock with gilded edges, a laser-cut tuck box, fully custom designed pips, indexes, courts....and to top it all off, put it in a AIP bottle.
 

Re: What brings long term value?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2014, 10:14:33 PM »
 

HandSkillz

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How about this everyone? You come up with the definitive list of criteria and I will make a deck that hits everything and sell them for $1000 a piece.  :D

What?

A standard bike deck with, now this is the part where a hard decision comes into play, a red OOOOR blue back now that's a $1000 deck.
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Re: What brings long term value?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 05:23:48 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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There's rarity, there's scarcity - and there's also demand.  You could create the rarest deck imaginable, an issue of one, and if no one has heard of it or wants it, it has no worth whatsoever, except perhaps to the person who created it.

The toy craze was mentioned - and yes, there's a big market for collecting rare toys.  But even there, the market has shifted.  Whereas at one time in history, toys didn't last long because kids played with them 'til they fell apart, now more and more of these new toys coming out are being sought by collectors, who want the special collectors edition in the serial-numbered box and the bonus widget that comes in a special presentation box, etc.  Those toys DO NOT GET PLAYED WITH terribly often.  A handful might "escape" from their boxes because someone wants to display them on a shelf or something similar, but in general they're very well cared for.  Thus, the attrition rate for such toys is low, so most of the ones made will still be available years down the road.  Toy companies aim for a balance of quantity (so as to not anger collectors wanting complete collections) and rarity.  Aim too hard for rarity and you make less money, unless you release a boatload of "rare edition" toys, in which case those completists get angry again, because it becomes too difficult to make a complete set.

There are some parallels here, but it's important to remember that in playing cards, there's nowhere near as much "mint-in-box syndrome" going around.  Playing cards have been around for hundreds of years and have always been a popular game - there's almost no other game on the market that can be played with in so many different ways.  There's some collectors who will buy them for the sake of owning them, like having bragging rights or something, but to me it's akin to paying good money for rare paintings and sculptures and either tucking them into a storage system somewhere, never to see daylight again, or put them on display while their still in their crates.  Perhaps the crates are interesting sometimes, but you can't actually appreciate the art that way.

That's a big way in which playing cards vary from toys.  A full-custom deck can be a thing of real beauty, much like a well-made toy sculpt, but while the toys tend to come in flashy packaging that shows off the contents in all its glory, playing cards in their box will at most display the front of one card, the back of another and the edges of all the cards - and that's no way to appreciate a work of art, now is it?

Vintage playing cards obtain their value for the same reasons as vintage toys - no one expected them to last forever, few people saved them, and in many cases the examples you do find are opened and well-used.  A "mint-in-box" pack of any deck that's old enough has a significantly higher value, of course - and the point Tom made about the cross-appeal is important as well.  Card collectors AND Coca-Cola memorabilia collectors will be looking for that cool pack of Coca-Cola playing cards, and Lewis Carroll fans will be just as eager as you are to get that Alice in Wonderland themed deck, etc., thus making the demand higher than it would be for a more pedestrian pack of cards.

I can't imagine that the "artificial rarity" of limited-run custom decks will make a great deal of cash in the long run, not unless the hobby of card collecting grows in leaps and bounds.  The rarity is there, but many of us already get the decks we like, if not at the initial offering, then through eBay, trading, etc.  If the demand suddenly shot up with new hobbyists, that would be the tipping point.  There's no way to know if and when that will happen - it's something we fervently hope for, but at the same time something that we dread, because THAT'S when even garden-variety "collectors' decks" will start becoming really scarce and prices will go up not only for our collections but also for all the other decks you don't have yet but really want someday!  Vintage/antique collectors will feel the pain first, because there you have cards that were never meant to be scarce in much the same way that they were never meant to last all these years - they weren't scarce by design, but are so anyway, and good examples can be difficult to find - any not already in collectors hands may be deteriorating as we speak, sitting in a drawer in that dresser in the back of the garage that crazy old guy owns, next to the rats' nest that needs bedding material...  :))
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Re: What brings long term value?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 09:59:57 AM »
 

Lukeout

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How about this everyone? You come up with the definitive list of criteria and I will make a deck that hits everything and sell them for $1000 a piece.  :D

What?

Only if it's signed, numbered, limited to 1 deck, and comes in an indestructible packet jacket.. :D

And comes in UV500 card stock with gilded edges, a laser-cut tuck box, fully custom designed pips, indexes, courts....and to top it all off, put it in a AIP bottle.

And the bottle should be at least Magnum sized...
"Design is nothing more or less than the ability to go from what exists to what is preferred."