Environmental Control for storing older cards

[jupiter3]

Is anyone out there concerned about temperature, light, and humidity control for larger collections of older cards?
I use a couple of dehumidifiers near my display cabinets to keep the atmosphere dry. 
I also protect my older decks in plastic boxes that are made of lo-gassing uv blocking plastic.

In more than just a few cases I have found that celo wrapping has been so tight that some older decks have warped
over the years (from previous owners).  Has anyone else experienced this or am I just "special"?   

Jim

[ATS]

I am interested in this also, as paper and fabric products notoriously do not withstand the tests of time too well. Would it be possible to see a picture of your setup? Other then the plastic sheet covers, and sometimes other similar forms of encasing, is there much in the card conservation side?

[Don Boyer]

Lee Asher has a great PDF on his site about caring for and storing J-Nuggs - it also applies just as well to any decks you want to preserve for the long term.

There are cases where the cellophane will shrink over time, owing to the heat.  Controlling a storage area's temperature, humidity and light are critical, as well as protecting it from other environmental hazards such as insects, children and other vermin.    Simple de-humidification alone could make the cards too dry and brittle - paper is practically a living, breathing thing.

[CardConjurer]

I store every vintage deck I own in sealed plastic bags. There is a certain size you can buy that fits 4 decks perfectly. I lived in South Florida (very humid) for over 10 years with my collection and have never had a problem. Massive swings in temperature/humidity is the only time I think you'd have a problem.

[jupiter3]

Yes Don, it's true that going overboard with dehumidifying will do as much damage to cards as adding water to the environment.  Subtlety is required.  I had to do much research in the library sciences to learn that swings in temperature and humidity do the major harm to card collections.  Temperature swings promote mold, even to shrink wrapped decks.

ATS, be very careful about any plastic sheet protectors or card covers that you purchase.  Some of the plastics produce gasses that will promote molds or other deteriorations of the cards.  I had to dig deep into vendor's specs before I decided how to display parts of my collection in plastics.  Also be careful about any wood varnishes that outgass noxious fumes.

Of some interest, I found that older paper decks that were made without a varnish or finish were only slightly more suseptable to mold and other detriments  than varnished cards.  The cut edges of modern cards are unprotected and can "soak up" the environment.

Jim

[52plusjoker]

We have found that light and humidity are the biggest enemies. We had a great presentation on preservation at our 52 Plus Joker convention in Vegas last October. We wera also given some excellent product information. I am away right now, but in a couple  of weeks I will do a post on the topic in the Source.

[Don Boyer]

I remember from my CCG collecting days that there's a brand of preservation products called Ultra-PRO that was developed initially to cater to the needs of sports cards collectors.  They use 100% neutral plastics that won't affect the paper in any way.

As bizarre as this sounds, be careful about the use of a sealed-bag product like a zipper-locking bag.  When you put your cards in there, you're literally creating a tiny micro-environment in the bag.  Unless you're having something sealed up in a plastic slab after being graded, it's better to allow some passage of air.  Often a grading company will seal your object using a neutral gas as a replacement for the air in the container to practically freeze the aging process as much as possible.  If you can't do that (like most mortals can't) then you're better off having the cards in the same environment as the rest of the room at all times - you can run into that issue of rapid changes in humidity when an airtight bag gets opened, as I'm sure you'll want to do from time to time.

[jupiter3]

You're on the mark again, Don, about Ultra-Pro being one of the best for preservation.  Unfortunatly, they have been cutting back on their product line over the last couple of years.  They decided to cut out the products that I have used.  Ouch.  I'm still looking for replacements at a good price.
Jim

[Don Boyer]

You're on the mark again, Don, about Ultra-Pro being one of the best for preservation.  Unfortunatly, they have been cutting back on their product line over the last couple of years.  They decided to cut out the products that I have used.  Ouch.  I'm still looking for replacements at a good price.
Jim

That's probably got a lot to do with the drop in sports memorabilia and CCG popularity from it's peak in the '90s.  Perhaps if someone whispered in their ear about this new collecting phenomenon that's growing rather than shrinking, they'll stand up and take notice.  http://www.ultrapro.com/contact_us.php

[Rob Wright]

Don, I emailed them about a month ago. They said no, and had no plans to in the future.

[Don Boyer]

Don, I emailed them about a month ago. They said no, and had no plans to in the future.

I just tried - maybe I'll be more persuasive? 

[Rob Wright]

Don, I emailed them about a month ago. They said no, and had no plans to in the future.

I just tried - maybe I'll be more persuasive? 

I asked them about a screw down or magnetic close box similar to the single card one, but would hold a full deck. My thought was a KS project to pay for the tooling, and initial run.
I think that could be a great thing for Bill to add to CARC/EPCC.

[Don Boyer]

Don, I emailed them about a month ago. They said no, and had no plans to in the future.

I just tried - maybe I'll be more persuasive? 

I asked them about a screw down or magnetic close box similar to the single card one, but would hold a full deck. My thought was a KS project to pay for the tooling, and initial run.
I think that could be a great thing for Bill to add to CARC/EPCC.

That's kind of complex, though.  What about their single-deck products they already create for CCGs?

[ATS]

Hmmm, the pdf states preferable temperature is 68f... that can be a normal winters day in my part of the world, and things are not much better in Vegas. I am probably going to have to invest a lot more time and effort learning about all of this.

[JKuo]

hello everyone, jay from ultra pro here.  i have just gotten into this forum via invitation and started reading this and a few other threads.  it sounds like you guys are looking for a magnetic One Touch UV holder that will fit decks with tuck boxes. 

we don't know how to run KS projects and the way we approve spending on new molds is whether there's enough volume to justify it (obviously). 

so, given some comments on this thread, if someone is interested in running a KS project, we'll be glad to give you the cost of the mold and offer master pricing on the one touch cases for people buying through the KS project.  we can figure the exact math, but as long as the project pays for the mold (hopefully plus some for the project manager and fulfillment), we'll move ahead.

just throwing it out there!  my email is jkuo@ultrapro.com

[Don Boyer]

hello everyone, jay from ultra pro here.  i have just gotten into this forum via invitation and started reading this and a few other threads.  it sounds like you guys are looking for a magnetic One Touch UV holder that will fit decks with tuck boxes. 

we don't know how to run KS projects and the way we approve spending on new molds is whether there's enough volume to justify it (obviously). 

so, given some comments on this thread, if someone is interested in running a KS project, we'll be glad to give you the cost of the mold and offer master pricing on the one touch cases for people buying through the KS project.  we can figure the exact math, but as long as the project pays for the mold (hopefully plus some for the project manager and fulfillment), we'll move ahead.

just throwing it out there!  my email is jkuo@ultrapro.com

Hey, Jay, thanks for taking the time out of your schedule and checking in with us.

There's certainly a market for this kind of thing - we have thousands of members on this site and we don't by far encompass the entire army of deck collectors out there.

I'm surprised that your company would be willing to surrender control of a Kickstarter project to create these cases rather than create a project of your own.  It's the kind of thing that would certainly give the project greater credibility, and if you find the demand is insufficient to make the required mold, you're in a good position because you haven't shelled out any real money, just a little time working out the details of such a design.  But if the demand is there - you've got a winning situation, you've got the capacity to distribute for fulfilling pledges and at that point it's simply a matter of waiting for the cash to come in, minus the percentage that Amazon Payments and Kickstarter collect - these things usually fund fairly quickly after the project closes.

I could even envision a version of the box with belt loops in the back, and another with a clip for hanging it off of a jacket pocket.  Weight shouldn't be an issue, as a pack of cards is less than 3.5 ounces.  You could even make double boxes for carrying two decks in the same box.

[JKuo]

Hello Don

The reason is because we have so much going on at one that there is no way we'll be able to learn how to run a KS campaign, much less run one.  Also we have no experience running KS projects, but what we do best is get molds made and bring inventory in.  We are generally not a consumer-direct type of company, we design and sell through distributors and we generally ship by the pallets.  Also, we never worked with cases for these type of decks and tuck boxes, so we'll probably need to have some kind of discussion around production limitations & costs versus desired utility. 

So with all that said, we're happy to give control of a KS project to someone if they are willing to do the work, and we'll be the manufacturer working in the background.

Anyways, just an idea!

Thanks!

[Don Boyer]

Hello Don

The reason is because we have so much going on at one that there is no way we'll be able to learn how to run a KS campaign, much less run one.  Also we have no experience running KS projects, but what we do best is get molds made and bring inventory in.  We are generally not a consumer-direct type of company, we design and sell through distributors and we generally ship by the pallets.  Also, we never worked with cases for these type of decks and tuck boxes, so we'll probably need to have some kind of discussion around production limitations & costs versus desired utility. 

So with all that said, we're happy to give control of a KS project to someone if they are willing to do the work, and we'll be the manufacturer working in the background.

Anyways, just an idea!

Thanks!

I may discuss this with a business associate of mine...

[jwats01]

I'd be interested in running this project as well..

[ATS]

I'd be very keen to run a ks project on this as I am starting to build up a collection which includes older decks now, which may be very prone to destruction in Australia's summers.

[Don Boyer]

I'd be very keen to run a ks project on this as I am starting to build up a collection which includes older decks now, which may be very prone to destruction in Australia's summers.

Actually, you could use a new watertight cooler and keep it in a room with a dehumidifier.  Or a humidifier, if the problem is dryness rather than humidity.

[ATS]

They are good for storage, albeit I'm looking for something also for use in a way to protect the cards whilst also putting them on display in various ways. Have a fair months to keep looking at various options

[Don Boyer]

They are good for storage, albeit I'm looking for something also for use in a way to protect the cards whilst also putting them on display in various ways. Have a fair months to keep looking at various options

In which case you need to control the environment of the room they're in, not the display.  Unless you're willing to shell out for the types of displays used by museums to display valuable, irreplaceable artworks, you won't find a display that controls the environment the cards are kept in.

Lee Asher posted an excellent booklet on the storage of playing cards for longevity and preservation.  He wrote it originally for buyers of Jerry's Nugget decks, but the information within really applies well to any playing cards.

You can download a free copy here.

[Josh Blackmon]

As a carryover from my collections of vintage and rare periodicals, I have often wondered about storing decks in form fitting Mylar bags. I use a 2 mil bag which is durable and can hold a crease very well. They are large in comparison to a deck of cards, but I may go home and whip out the scissors this afternoon to see what I can come up with.

- As a side note, I've also been curious as to the long term effects of the cellophane wrapping on cards that are never opened. I know that over time, even sealed magazines that are unopened can incur damage or at least some aging from the limitations of the plastics used to seal them at the factory.

[jupiter3]

I have to agree with your concern, Josh.  Cello wrappers, being plastic, do off-gas over time.  I have also found many(!) decks where the tuck box or the cards themselves (when the deck is wrapped) are bent from too tight of a wrapper.