Edinburgh Playing Cards - (KS)

[badpete69]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/678889191/edinburgh-playing-cards

[Don Boyer]

OK, so it looks like a tourism deck, but when you read more about it, you see it's a deck for a charity cause.

Which means that when KS oversight gets wind of it, they may shut it down.

[Mr Rik]

Hi Folks

This deck was my idea.  I didn't post on here as I did not imagine many of you would be particularly interested in a 'souvenir' deck, from a city some of you will not have been to. 

But then this got me thinking about why we as people interested in cards kinda view souvenir decks as less worthy? 

Obviously if you have not been to Edinburgh, why would you want a souvenir deck from there?  Although I bet a few of will have decks from places we have not been, presents from travelling friends, probably bought at an airport!

But what else devalues them though?  For me there is something about the area of the playing card face that is not inked.

I like to see the pips, there is something comforting about them, the arrangement, the instant recognition of suit and value, but I also, in a similar way enjoy the space between the pips, with this space decreasing as the numbers climb, until we reach the court cards who are are typically boxed in, with this 'space' reduced a border.  I prefer white cards to black cards, as for me I enjoy the space of the white cards, whereas the black cards are almost an antithesis of this 'space' for me.

Souvenir decks such as The Edinburgh Playing Cards, rob of us this experience, as in all the cards, the space is almost identical, every card has framing like the standard court cards.  They therefore lack the drama of pip display and the pips encroachment into the 'space' on the card.  Spatially, in souvenir decks, all cards have the same value. 

However, I wonder, have any of you got souvenir decks in your collections that you really like, and if so what is it about them that you like. Any tips for the Edinburgh Cards appreciated?

Just in terms of the design of these cards I really like the backs on them. Please comment on them if interested to.

In response to Don, we don't try to hide the fact that this charity deck, in the text or the video, and the deck has presumably been through 'oversight' at KS, a prerequisite before launching, so I would hope they don't pull it.  I think although we are a charity the project fulfils the creative requirement of KS, through backers getting a 'fresh' product for their investment.  It is still an enterprise, although more of what we call in the UK, a social enterprise.  However, this is our first KS project and as such I am still quite green about the processes of it though, and could be wrong.

Thanks for reading,

Rik

[Yashi]

Here's my opinion:
Souvenir decks don't print on quality paper.
The cuts are bad.
Pasting photos on cards doesn't seem that hard to do.

At this day and age, people can take their own photos. I don't think they'll need a pack of cards to remind them where they've been.

However, I do have a bunch of souvenir decks with me. I only keep them for sentimental value though since they were given to me by people who don't really understand what kind of cards I collect. But it's the thought that counts.

[Sher143]

Here's my opinion:
Pasting photos on cards doesn't seem that hard to do.

At this day and age, people can take their own photos. I don't think they'll need a pack of cards to remind them where they've been.

Pretty much this. Instead of photos, maybe they can be drawings of the places, kinda like how the Portland Places playing cards were (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/944205038/portland-places-the-illustrated-card-deck). I would consider purchasing them if they had original drawings.

[Don Boyer]

Hi Folks

This deck was my idea.  I didn't post on here as I did not imagine many of you would be particularly interested in a 'souvenir' deck, from a city some of you will not have been to. 

But then this got me thinking about why we as people interested in cards kinda view souvenir decks as less worthy? 

Obviously if you have not been to Edinburgh, why would you want a souvenir deck from there?  Although I bet a few of will have decks from places we have not been, presents from travelling friends, probably bought at an airport!

But what else devalues them though?  For me there is something about the area of the playing card face that is not inked.

I like to see the pips, there is something comforting about them, the arrangement, the instant recognition of suit and value, but I also, in a similar way enjoy the space between the pips, with this space decreasing as the numbers climb, until we reach the court cards who are are typically boxed in, with this 'space' reduced a border.  I prefer white cards to black cards, as for me I enjoy the space of the white cards, whereas the black cards are almost an antithesis of this 'space' for me.

Souvenir decks such as The Edinburgh Playing Cards, rob of us this experience, as in all the cards, the space is almost identical, every card has framing like the standard court cards.  They therefore lack the drama of pip display and the pips encroachment into the 'space' on the card.  Spatially, in souvenir decks, all cards have the same value. 

However, I wonder, have any of you got souvenir decks in your collections that you really like, and if so what is it about them that you like. Any tips for the Edinburgh Cards appreciated?

Just in terms of the design of these cards I really like the backs on them. Please comment on them if interested to.

In response to Don, we don't try to hide the fact that this charity deck, in the text or the video, and the deck has presumably been through 'oversight' at KS, a prerequisite before launching, so I would hope they don't pull it.  I think although we are a charity the project fulfils the creative requirement of KS, through backers getting a 'fresh' product for their investment.  It is still an enterprise, although more of what we call in the UK, a social enterprise.  However, this is our first KS project and as such I am still quite green about the processes of it though, and could be wrong.

Thanks for reading,

Rik

This is a very well thought-out response.  Thanks for that.

Souvenir decks are not the worst thing in the world, by far.  The general reputation that most location-based souvenir decks, often called "tourist decks", have is that they're cheaply manufactured and generally played with a few times on the trip, perhaps a few more times at home, then they're forgotten about.  It's usually comprised of photos of the popular tourist sights, but they tend to have less of a personal connection than, for example, photos you took of you at those sights, having fun with your traveling companions.

Now if you want to see a much more dynamic take on a souvenir deck, check out this project, based on the city of Tacoma, Washington, USA.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tacomamakes/tacoma-artist-playing-cards

This was a lovingly-created, very artistic deck of cards.  More important, however, are the rewards - you can see that this is a deck not really aimed at the tourists who think Tacoma is a lovely city, but more so at the people who live there and that have a passion about their hometown.  Many of the rewards involve highly local events - in fact, the decks were for the most part intended to be picked up locally, rather than being shipped anywhere, never mind out of the country!  People had opportunities to be in the deck, participate in the launch party and art exhibition, etc. - even the highest-value rewards were snapped up by locals who wanted to be part of the project!  It lives in a totally different atmosphere than a cheaply made, "Greetings from Wherever" deck with generic photographs.

And no, I'm not denigrating your photos as generic!  Your project has a totally different timbre to it as compared to the common tourist decks sold anywhere that has tourists.  But while you need not go to the extremes of a Tacoma Artist deck, there's more you could be doing in terms of making this deck of great interest within your own community, giving a really local, personal touch to the entire project and making the residents take notice and want to be involved.  THAT is where you're going to find your most fervent supporters - from the people who live there, or at least those that visit often enough to wish that they did.

[badpete69]

And in turn good reply Don.  I live near Tacoma and I did purchase both Tacoma decks when they came out, not solely because I lived closed by  but i thought it was a cool concept also

[GBAllison]

Our neighbors buy tourist cards on every trip they take.  So we play with them a LOT.  Photos without captions are almost meaningless.  One or two-word titles help some, but the more fun decks are the ones that add an extra sentence about what's pictured on the card. Especially if it teaches you something new. The better decks actually apply some sort of theme--with the Aces being photos of the most important features at the destination, and then the Kings, Queens and Jacks also related in some way.  Our favorite decks have 52 images.  It's annoying when we discover that all the fives have the same image.  Or worse, that all the clubs have the same image.

My favorite ever destination deck is a Canada-themed deck that I played with once at someone else's house and have never seen since.  Each card-value represented a specific location (I remember that the Aces were all Canada, and the 5s were all Manitoba), and then each suit offered something different about the locations.  For example all the clubs had the location's flag or seal.  All the hearts had a map of the location.  All the spades showed where the location was on a big map of Canada.

That said, I was an automatic pass on the Edinburgh deck.  I don't collect those ... but even for my neighbor ... no titles, no captions, no education, no themes.  The fonts were overdone and the backs were underdone.  I expect a destination deck to have a one-way back, but I would hope for it to *say* the location.  Literally.  It should have the word Edinburgh on it, it a nicely done font.  And maybe with a map or other clean, bright eye-catchy logo.

Just some suggestions.  Hope this helps!

[Don Boyer]

Our neighbors buy tourist cards on every trip they take.  So we play with them a LOT.  Photos without captions are almost meaningless.  One or two-word titles help some, but the more fun decks are the ones that add an extra sentence about what's pictured on the card. Especially if it teaches you something new. The better decks actually apply some sort of theme--with the Aces being photos of the most important features at the destination, and then the Kings, Queens and Jacks also related in some way.  Our favorite decks have 52 images.  It's annoying when we discover that all the fives have the same image.  Or worse, that all the clubs have the same image.

My favorite ever destination deck is a Canada-themed deck that I played with once at someone else's house and have never seen since.  Each card-value represented a specific location (I remember that the Aces were all Canada, and the 5s were all Manitoba), and then each suit offered something different about the locations.  For example all the clubs had the location's flag or seal.  All the hearts had a map of the location.  All the spades showed where the location was on a big map of Canada.

That said, I was an automatic pass on the Edinburgh deck.  I don't collect those ... but even for my neighbor ... no titles, no captions, no education, no themes.  The fonts were overdone and the backs were underdone.  I expect a destination deck to have a one-way back, but I would hope for it to *say* the location.  Literally.  It should have the word Edinburgh on it, it a nicely done font.  And maybe with a map or other clean, bright eye-catchy logo.

Just some suggestions.  Hope this helps!

You raise some excellent points here.  My favorite location-based souvenir decks is all about Key West and the rest of the Florida Keys.  Key West tends to get the most attention, since many of the rest of the Keys are tiny, with just US1 as the only road and a few houses or stores at most.  Professional-grade photography done by locals, captions and descriptions beneath each picture - it's not my favorite poker deck, but I do like pulling it out now and then for some solitaire and pretend that I'm on a patio or balcony on Duval Street, chilling out before sundown and the festivities at Mallory Square.  Sometimes it's enough to forget, if only for a moment or two, that about five inches of snow fell outside my door yesterday...

[Mr Rik]

Thanks to all who have posted ideas and suggestions on this thread.

I will try to answer a few points here.

In terms of the quality of the cards, we intend to use the same printers and stock, finish that the Grain Back decks used.  More information on ‘Sure Slip’ can be found here:
http://www.ivorygraphics.co.uk/sureslip.asp

I will take on board your comments Don about trying to create a more engaging campaign.  Thanks for the Tacoma and Portland Places campaigns suggestions.

I also agree with GBAllison’s comments about the images needing some wording for people to know where the photos were taken or what the images are of.  I had planned a location list on one of the Ad Cards but appreciate that this is not ideal, and photo identification on the card is more preferable.  I will endeavour to add these.

With regards to the back, as indicated in the campaign this is the actual tartan of the charity I work for which is why it was chosen.  It is also quite symbolic of Scotland and seemed a perfect fit for our needs.  I like that it is 2 way. 

I really do appreciate you all taking the time to give suggestions and to make criticisms, and where possible and practicable I will incorporate them into the campaign.

[DarkDerp]

A problem I have is  there are a limited number of options when it comes to paper stock and finish. This means it comes down to the look of the deck.  By using photos the cards are an automatic no no for magic, so it comes down to the art.  Art for me is all about a connection. A photograph is more than a transfer of an image, but a feeling, a smell, a taste. It presents not just what was in front of the lens but what the photographer felt the connection the artist had to his or her art. Presentation and print quality are a big part of this, and playing cards in my opinion are the wrong medium.

[PurpleIce]

I would comment for myself as a collector only. That being said, i give no hoots about the quality of the card stock and finish. I think "tourist" decks have no collectors value (other than the sentimental value of being in that place) because they are mostly just photos. Photos that can be taken by anyone and use it to print on decks that basically anyone can do if only they wish to do it. In fact, they can probably just google images and slap it on a deck of cards. In short, there is no artistic or design value behind a tourist deck.

I believe there are a lot of good comments already being mentioned to help improve your deck. What i think would make a unique tourist deck would be to have a sketch of the place. Not a direct sketch but rather an abstract interpretation of what that place means to you or feels to you. Also, it need not be a place, but can also be its culture, food, festival, people, language...etc. And as pointed out by GBAllison, include a short description so people know the concept/thinking behind each image. I think this could give people who have not been there an interesting perspective of what that place could be like, and people who are there a common....familiarity (Sorry, I can't think of the right word now, but hope you know what i mean)

I also do have a few tourists decks from friends and family, but i never took a second look to it simply because i never been there. Sure, i see nice photos and places but i do not know what is it like or how it feels like to be there. You simply have to convey more than just a nice picture to the user.

[Don Boyer]

A problem I have is  there are a limited number of options when it comes to paper stock and finish. This means it comes down to the look of the deck.  By using photos the cards are an automatic no no for magic, so it comes down to the art.  Art for me is all about a connection. A photograph is more than a transfer of an image, but a feeling, a smell, a taste. It presents not just what was in front of the lens but what the photographer felt the connection the artist had to his or her art. Presentation and print quality are a big part of this, and playing cards in my opinion are the wrong medium.

I would comment for myself as a collector only. That being said, i give no hoots about the quality of the card stock and finish. I think "tourist" decks have no collectors value (other than the sentimental value of being in that place) because they are mostly just photos. Photos that can be taken by anyone and use it to print on decks that basically anyone can do if only they wish to do it. In fact, they can probably just google images and slap it on a deck of cards. In short, there is no artistic or design value behind a tourist deck.

I believe there are a lot of good comments already being mentioned to help improve your deck. What i think would make a unique tourist deck would be to have a sketch of the place. Not a direct sketch but rather an abstract interpretation of what that place means to you or feels to you. Also, it need not be a place, but can also be its culture, food, festival, people, language...etc. And as pointed out by GBAllison, include a short description so people know the concept/thinking behind each image. I think this could give people who have not been there an interesting perspective of what that place could be like, and people who are there a common....familiarity (Sorry, I can't think of the right word now, but hope you know what i mean)

I also do have a few tourists decks from friends and family, but i never took a second look to it simply because i never been there. Sure, i see nice photos and places but i do not know what is it like or how it feels like to be there. You simply have to convey more than just a nice picture to the user.

Guys, you're both missing some important points here.

This deck wasn't made to appeal to collectors, magicians, cardists, etc.  The specific medium chosen for the art - photography - was the result of a therapeutic program.  These cards are meant to serve a particular purpose as a fund raiser and to judge them by the same standards as you would a deck made for cardists or magicians would be a mistake.  It is as if you were looking to buy a new truck and were presented with a classic Volkswagen Beetle, circa 1970 - you can complain all you like about the small cab, the tiny cargo bay, the rusty bits and the low torque and towing capacity, but none of that will turn the '70s Volkswagen into a new truck.  To judge the classic Beetle by new truck standards would be ridiculous.  Judge it against small, economical, vintage cars and suddenly it makes a lot more sense.

The thing you, Mr Rik, want to emphasize with this project is pride of place.  You and your photographers are proud of Edinburgh or you wouldn't have been taking the pictures in the first place, am I right?  Convey that pride to me, the consumer, and you have a better chance of winning me over.  Let's also not forget the target demographic for a project like this - rather than focusing on the world as a whole, focus on the natives of Edinburgh and vacationers who love the city as much as the natives.  Those are the people for whom this deck will have the maximum appeal, giving you the greatest chance of success.

Advertise the deck locally.  Offer rewards that are location-specific - for example, a "couples special": two decks and a meal for two at a popular local restaurant, preferably one that's romantic.  (Of course, you'd need to include disclaimers about "travel and accommodations not included" or charge a princely sum for the reward to cover them!)  Perhaps offer a walking tour of the locations pictured in the photos as seen from the actual locations where the photographers took their pictures.  Extras to that could include the deck's creator joining the tour and/or a photograph taken of a select scene on the tour, framed like the image in the pack of cards, with you and your loved one/family/etc.

You could also include custom souvenirs from Waverley Care - pens, stickers, coffee mugs, t-shirts, perhaps even a garment like a skirt or a kilt with the same plaid used to represent the charity.  Items like that would be good to use as enticements for non-locals - it reminds them that they're raising money for a cause when they're supporting your deck project.

[GBAllison]

I love Don's point about conveying pride with your photographs.  Imagine that all the clubs are a walking tour through Old Town, All the diamonds are from New Town, and all the hearts from West End.  Spades would be from the surrounding area.  Your locals will get it, big time, and your repeat tourists will know what you're talking about too.

And the photos themselves--instead of the standard picture postcard view of Old College, use a picture of when it's all lit up, at dusk.  Or get something *really* close up.  Something that all the locals know, something that they would all say WOW about.  Instead of the postcard view of St Giles' Cathedral ... crop a close-up.  I love the amazing glasswork above the front entrance. I know the spire is iconic, but maybe that's a little too "normal."  You'd want to be looking for the *special* photograph that sings to locals and tourists.

Don hit the nail on the head ... show the pride.

Your customers already have the pride.  To make this a must-have, your photos will capture that pride.

[DarkDerp]

I seriously recommend going with something other than playing cards if using photos. The print press used, the paper, and the size are just not conducive to the art of photography. An idea might be to make a board game, using cards as a piece of it.

That and..

presented with a classic Volkswagen Beetle, circa 1970 - you can complain all you like about the small cab, the tiny cargo bay, the rusty bits and the low torque and towing capacity, but none of that will turn the '70s Volkswagen into a new truck.  To judge the classic Beetle by new truck standards would be ridiculous.  Judge it against small, economical, vintage cars and suddenly it makes a lot more sense.

I think Don might be Harry Dresden.

[Don Boyer]

I seriously recommend going with something other than playing cards if using photos. The print press used, the paper, and the size are just not conducive to the art of photography. An idea might be to make a board game, using cards as a piece of it.

That and..

presented with a classic Volkswagen Beetle, circa 1970 - you can complain all you like about the small cab, the tiny cargo bay, the rusty bits and the low torque and towing capacity, but none of that will turn the '70s Volkswagen into a new truck.  To judge the classic Beetle by new truck standards would be ridiculous.  Judge it against small, economical, vintage cars and suddenly it makes a lot more sense.

I think Don might be Harry Dresden.

Photos can be printed very nicely, trust me, I've seen some prime examples.

"I've even heard of one guy in Chicago who advertises in the phone book under "Wizard," though that's probably an urban legend." - Alex Verus, Fated