Interlace Deck - Returning to KS soon..

[Shebhnt]

Sorry I meant epcc, expert playing card company

[sastian]

considering this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYi6sa-YyWo

[sastian]

Further analysis of the Standard Bicycle pips leaves much to be desired. I'm really wondering if i were to refine the Bike art if they would be interested in using it.

[sastian]

my guidelines in place for redesign....

[sastian]

Bicycle Spade analysis and refinement done.... thoughts?

[Don Boyer]

Bicycle Spade analysis and refinement done.... thoughts?

The design change seems really subtle - only the sharpest of eyes and the people who already know will notice even a small difference.

You might be interested in using Perfect Pips, assuming you're printing with USPC.  They came up with a pip design that wasn't as popular for their mainstream decks but seem to work well for some custom designs.  I know the Buck Twins used it for the original Smoke and Mirrors decks that I possess (versions 4 through 6).  I think the overall intent was to get the pips to a uniform size, but it made some, like the spades, seem a little too narrow - and it was a big issue for magicians that it didn't match the thousands of gaffs that had been made for the USPC standard faces.  Ellusionist used Perfect Pips for a while on some of their earlier Masters decks in red and blue and I've had spectators notice the difference - they've since switched back to the original standard.

[sastian]

[edited for clarity]

well at the end of the day, my pips wont match anyones. i just wanted a clean starting point and to build repository for future projects.

I was just surprised to see that these are soo varied after all these years. it was time to bring them up to date...
 
The images below are high resolution scans i took from a fresh deck of Bicycle stand cards.
below is just a sample of the level of analysis im going into.. look how out of register these are with each other!

1) the first image shows how much variation there is in the web press production ( which is why im considering a different printer)

2) the second image shows how much variation there is AFTER i line up the top left 10's instead of the edges of the card...
    this show the accuracy of the Bicycle layout... the pips are pretty inconsistent in their placement. seems they were aligned to outer edge but not too much care is vertical spacing

[sastian]

FINISHED MY BASE PIPS!!! 
Now to get them to fit the theme

[sastian]

So to explain... the reason im being so picky is that when i go to extrude this design so that it looks punched through. inconsistencies in the lines will only be magnified by this process. Look how clean these clubs look.. if the spacing around the stems were left as they were it would have looked like errors.

[Don Boyer]

well at the end of the day, my pips wont match anyones. i just wanted a clean starting point and to build repository for future projects. I was just surprised to see that these are soo varied after all these years. it was time to bring them up to date...
 not to mention.. heres a sample of the level of analysis im going into.. look how out of register these are... the second image shows how much variation there is if i line up the top left 10's instead o f the edges...

Wow - I get the feeling that you're REALLY overthinking things a bit here.  You do understand that even if you get the cards perfectly aligned on the uncut sheet, there's no guarantee that the finished cards themselves will be so perfectly centered, right?  And that USPC generally worries more about aligning the backs than the fronts when it comes to cutting the cards from the sheets, since back alignment can take a perfectly fine deck and make it a one-way design because of off-sized borders?  I have news for you - those Bicycle faces in your example were probably aligned pretty close to perfect as well, before they were cut from the sheet...

I'm all for a uniform deck, but you're seeking the kind of precision that scientists and engineers demand but that printers can rarely deliver, USPC included.

[Shebhnt]

considering this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYi6sa-YyWo

Legends and Epcc both use the same printer in Taiwan.  They also use the same paper and finish.

[troy]

FINISHED MY BASE PIPS!!! 
Now to get them to fit the theme

Please consider making the spades and clubs black and the the hearts and diamonds red. Simple is better and more usable.

[Don Boyer]

FINISHED MY BASE PIPS!!! 
Now to get them to fit the theme

Please consider making the spades and clubs black and the the hearts and diamonds red. Simple is better and more usable.

Actually, it depends on the user.  For some, having the pips in four different colors makes it easier to spot a flush when playing poker, though it can be annoying to use for playing most solitaire games.  Four colors aren't my favorite choice, but there is indeed a valid reason for using them.  It's why the Bicycle Lo-Vision deck now comes with four-color as well as two-color pip designs on their decks, whereas originally they were only two-color.

[sastian]

don't worry all. the colors were just a design reference... 


Don, I've spent long enough in design and print to know the limitations in accuracy when printing on large web offset CTP processes. I think your misunderstanding the WHY of what im doing. i'm not concerned about the alignment of the printing on the back of the cards... i spent that time cleaning up the pips because inconsistencies in the lines that make the pips get magnified when you double them up the way I am when applying the dimensional effects.  this screen shot goes to show that basically if i have to spend the time to hand trace the base pip, i might as well redesign it to be accurate.

[sastian]

working out the indices font 

[sastian]

preferences on the "J"

[Don Boyer]

don't worry all. the colors were just a design reference... 


Don, I've spent long enough in design and print to know the limitations in accuracy when printing on large web offset CTP processes. I think your misunderstanding the WHY of what im doing. i'm not concerned about the alignment of the printing on the back of the cards... i spent that time cleaning up the pips because inconsistencies in the lines that make the pips get magnified when you double them up the way I am when applying the dimensional effects.  this screen shot goes to show that basically if i have to spend the time to hand trace the base pip, i might as well redesign it to be accurate.

This project would be printed by USPC on the sheet-fed press, not the web press.  These days almost no "boutique" decks get made on the web press unless you're making the kind of quantities Ellusionist, T11, TBC or D&D typically order, in the low five figures at the least.  Before the shift to Erlanger they let a few smaller projects through, but that had a lot to do with the poor condition of the sheet-fed press toward the end.  However, that's at least five years ago.

A redesign is fine - it just looked like you were going through a lot more work than needed.  I could be wrong; wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

I like a more narrow "J" - the other looks almost like a backward "L"!

[sastian]

PROGRESS UPDATE!~

[sastian]

number cards are getting finished!... and new shadows!

[Leif]

I also prefer the narrow J in Joker, but I also like the stretched out R, is it possible to use those together or would that look strange?
I really admire your work on this deck, courts as well as pips. I do agree that the pips on the standard bicycle cards look inconsistent. I also wondered why they would look that way in today's world of micrometer alignment and stuff. I thought it might be that they want them to look kind of a little more "handdrawn", the standard courts also looks unsymmetrical, with varying linewidth on the border and one half different from the other.

I also like the way you show the work from the beginning, and hopefully to the happy end. You have done great with this deck.

[sastian]

I also prefer the narrow J in Joker, but I also like the stretched out R, is it possible to use those together or would that look strange?
I really admire your work on this deck, courts as well as pips. I do agree that the pips on the standard bicycle cards look inconsistent. I also wondered why they would look that way in today's world of micrometer alignment and stuff. I thought it might be that they want them to look kind of a little more "handdrawn", the standard courts also looks unsymmetrical, with varying linewidth on the border and one half different from the other.

I also like the way you show the work from the beginning, and hopefully to the happy end. You have done great with this deck.

thanks for you notes. I think i get what your getting at.. ill make a joker title like that as well and post later... been up for wwwwaaaayyyy to long as it is and have to be UP again in an hour... but ill follow up . Thanks again for your kind words!

[sastian]

the first 50 people to sign up on my email list will get a free interlace decal... I will post a picture of the first cut soon.

I'm getting very close to announcing a launch date and only few slots open for those who will get the decals with their order!  Remember this is also the list I will be using to announce the early bird specials!

[troy]

preferences on the "J"

I prefer the 3rd one. However, I prefer it when all the capital letters rest on the same line, not dipping below like the J and R do.

[sastian]

How Kings are made!

[sastian]

Spades are almost done! only missing one...