The Pokédek - Pokémon themed playing cards (KS)

[badpete69]

Note This deck will come with sparkly coating hehehehehe

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/456570357/the-pokedek-pokemon-themed-playing-cards

[Shebhnt]

Well I played pokemon when it first came out way back on my original game boy (I think I still have it somewhere... blue all the way!) but because I only played the next generation after that I don't recognize most of these...

I also again wonder how this is not a copyright issue...

[jwats01]

I never played any Pokemon, but my first thought was also about copyrights. If the copyright owner catches wind of this, if it's not already worked out, they will likely shut it down is my guess.

[Paul Carpenter]

I can't imagine why you would attempt a project that clearly violates trademarked art and characters that are also PART OF THE BIGGEST TRADING CARD GAME in the world. Naw, doing a knockoff set of cards wouldn't step on any toes...

[Don Boyer]

Nintendo is the copyright holder of Pokemon, if I remember correctly.  I'd be shocked if this deck ever saw the light of day.

What the hell is in the water that's making people think they can make decks based on someone else's intellectual property like it's no big deals and things like lawyers and courts don't exist??  It's becoming a plague on Kickstarter.

[Shebhnt]

I thought kickstarter individually approved each project, wouldn't the person who reviewed this realized that it might not be a good idea to approve something like this?

I also like how the copyright issue is no where addressed in the "risks" section.

[Don Boyer]

I thought kickstarter individually approved each project, wouldn't the person who reviewed this realized that it might not be a good idea to approve something like this?

I also like how the copyright issue is no where addressed in the "risks" section.

It's widely believed that Kickstarter's vetting process consists of little more than a rubber stamp...

There's been many occasions where projects came up and were approved that were based on illegitimately used intellectual property.  The Bicycle Army Men deck is a prime example - got all the way to funded, only to get shot down with a C&D letter from the company that makes the "Army Men" toy soldiers...but hey, KS got their cut, so as far as they were concerned, it's ALL good, right? 

[jwats01]

It's widely believed that Kickstarter's vetting process consists of little more than a rubber stamp...

There's been many occasions where projects came up and were approved that were based on illegitimately used intellectual property.  The Bicycle Army Men deck is a prime example - got all the way to funded, only to get shot down with a C&D letter from the company that makes the "Army Men" toy soldiers...but hey, KS got their cut, so as far as they were concerned, it's ALL good, right? 

That's interesting about the Army Men deck. First time I've read that. I knew that it never saw the light of day, but never saw this detail.

And Nintendo does not look kindly, even when you are working with an older, no longer used entity, like Punch-Out: http://kck.st/OXgGoS
Great looking book about an old video game couldn't get approval, which was a shame.

[RandyButterfield]

Yeah,

I remember meeting Russell from Circle City Cards here in Indy just after the Ornates launched. He was telling me about Adam's new Army Men Deck coming to Kickstarter in a few months. Adam had even looked into the copyright and trademark for the Army Men name and thought it was free and clear. It's sad how that all ended up.

That's the first I ever heard of the Punch-Out Book. I would've been all over that one!! My brothers and I spent many days trying to beat that game.

I'm surprised none of the Pokeman Deck backers are making any comments asking if they have the rights to print the Deck. After reading through some of the Punch-Out attempts to get the licensing rights, I would imagine that the Pokemen Deck creators would be better off if they cancelled before the funding period was over.

Thanks, Randy

[Sher143]

This was in the FAQ section:

"What about copyright? Won't Nintendo shut this down?
There have been a few campaigns that deal directly with Pokemon, and many were successfully funded, with no legal action taken. And this is only dealing with projects on kickStarter.

If you go to online stores like Etsy and storeEnvy, or to places with "Artist Alleys" such as anime and comic conventions, there are literally thousands of items you can purchase that are not officially licensed.

While Nintendo is well within their rights to order a cease-and-desist, we're hoping that they understand this project, and allow it to happen!

Take a look at this SDCC panel about fan art and copyrights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKBsTUjd910"

-----

Pledge at your own risk. It's possible they won't get a cease-and-desist during the campaign, but they might get one after they've already gotten the funds from Kickstarter and there's no guarantee of refunds.

[Lukeout]

Really? "they would be in their rights to order a C+D, but we HOPE THEY DON'T?!?!?"   Wow. This statement probably opens them up to a whole new level of law suit - as they can't possibly claim ignorance (both the creator AND Kickstarter as now they are knowingly assisting in the selling of an infringing product).

This type of thing hurts Kickstarter and makes me ornery... more than it probably should, but as someone who has worked on officially licensed products for decades and paid all the appropriate royalties, I really hate this type of thing.

[Sher143]

I'm surprised none of the Pokeman Deck backers are making any comments asking if they have the rights to print the Deck. After reading through some of the Punch-Out attempts to get the licensing rights, I would imagine that the Pokemen Deck creators would be better off if they cancelled before the funding period was over.

Thanks, Randy

From the comments section:

"Kristina McQuillen about 12 hours ago
So the answer to the copyright violation question is...yes we know we are in violation but everyone else does it and hasnt gotten sued yet so its ok."

"Creator Misun Kim about 11 hours ago
@ Kristina: That's the jist of it, yes. So the bad news is, if Nintendo orders issues a cease-and-desist, then we'll cancel this project. Good news is, nothing will be charged on your credit card! (but perhaps a deep sadness will ingrain into your heart...)"

[Lukeout]

@ Kristina: That's the jist of it, yes. So the bad news is, if Nintendo orders issues a cease-and-desist, then we'll cancel this project. Good news is, nothing will be charged on your credit card! (but perhaps a deep sadness will ingrain into your heart...)"
[/quote]

It could go that way OR, they could get the C+D letter AFTER the Kickstarter closes. In which case it would be up to the backers to try to pry their money back - and good luck with that. I would normally never say this about another creators project, but I strongly suggest people don't back this project. Not only is your money at risk, but it's supporting a terrible president.

[PrincessTrouble]

On the Kickstarter page for the project:

The Pokédek - Pokémon themed playing cards is the subject of an intellectual property dispute and is currently unavailable.

[Sher143]

Copyright Notification:

"DMCA Notice
The Pokédek - Pokémon themed playing cards [Submitted by The Pokemon Company International, Inc.]
Date: Mar 14, 2014

Sender
[Private]
The Pokemon Company International, Inc.
333 108th Ave NE Suite 1900
Bellevue, WA 98004
USA

Sent via online form

Recipient
Kickstarter, Inc.
58 Kent Street
Brooklyn, NY 11222
USA

Re: The Pokédek - Pokémon themed playing cards

Description of copyrighted material: This individual is creating a deck of playing cards using the Pokémon intellectual property.

Description of infringing material: The copyrighted work is the world-famous and copyrighted Pokémon intellectual property which includes but is not limited to Vaporeon, Marill, Horsea, Poliwag, Oshawott, Piplup, Panpour, Dewgong, Wooper, Mudkip, Froakie, Squirtle, Flareon, Darumaka, Cyndaquil, Ponyta, Tepig, Litleo, Pansear, Ninetales, Growlithe, Torchic, Fennekin, Charmander, Leafeon, Budew, Chikorita, Skiddo, Lilligant, Turtwig, Pansage, Chespin, Celevi, Treeko, Snivy, Bulbasaur, Jolteon, Dedenne, Pachirisu, Blitzle, Emolga, Pluse & Minun, Shinx, Helioptile, Ampharos, Pichu, Raichu, and Pikachu."

[Anthony]

I'll be the 1st to admit I love KS, but come on, they're going to have to step up to the plate on these obvious cases and shoot them down. I do have a question, and it may be a dumb one, but lets say this deck gets to funding just like Army Men did and Nitendo is made aware, because I have to believe they haven't cought wind of this yet, and takes action against the designer, if funds were collected wouldn't KS be part of the lawsuite? I mean they collected funds generated from an item that infringed on copyright laws, they approved the project for funding, right?

[Don Boyer]

I'll be the 1st to admit I love KS, but come on, they're going to have to step up to the plate on these obvious cases and shoot them down. I do have a question, and it may be a dumb one, but lets say this deck gets to funding just like Army Men did and Nitendo is made aware, because I have to believe they haven't cought wind of this yet, and takes action against the designer, if funds were collected wouldn't KS be part of the lawsuite? I mean they collected funds generated from an item that infringed on copyright laws, they approved the project for funding, right?

I'm sure any contract between KS and a creator has an "indemnify and hold harmless" clause in it somewhere, making the creator the sole person(s) responsible in the event of a case like this.  It's like suing Instagram for posting a photo of a copyrighted image, even despite the fact that KS does vet the project.  It leaves one wondering what exactly takes place during vetting - I think they use tarot cards and Ouija boards... 

[jwats01]

The Pokédek - Pokémon themed playing cards, is the subject of an intellectual property dispute.

I guess that answers that.

[vmagic]

Why would Kickstarter even approve such a project?

[DarkDerp]

Herm. The company I used to work for had an itchy trigger finger when it came to others printing Pokemon  cards. Tshits, dice, posters, didnt care, but if someone dared to produce actual cards.. yeesh.

[Don Boyer]

Why would Kickstarter even approve such a project?

Because they like money.  When Bicycle Army Men got a C&D letter after being funded, there was no way to get the fees back that were charged by KS and Amazon - they were gone, leaving Adam Clarkson holding the bag.

Herm. The company I used to work for had an itchy trigger finger when it came to others printing Pokemon  cards. Tshits, dice, posters, didnt care, but if someone dared to produce actual cards.. yeesh.

You worked for whom?  Nintendo or a licensee?

[DarkDerp]

Why would Kickstarter even approve such a project?

Because they like money.  When Bicycle Army Men got a C&D letter after being funded, there was no way to get the fees back that were charged by KS and Amazon - they were gone, leaving Adam Clarkson holding the bag.

Herm. The company I used to work for had an itchy trigger finger when it came to others printing Pokemon  cards. Tshits, dice, posters, didnt care, but if someone dared to produce actual cards.. yeesh.

You worked for whom?  Nintendo or a licensee?

I was head of digital and small press at PBM graphics. Believe it or not it was the actual printers that went after people.

[Don Boyer]

I was head of digital and small press at PBM graphics. Believe it or not it was the actual printers that went after people.

I find it very easy to believe.  The printer who prints unlicensed IP can get into a lot of hot water, so I can easily see why they'd be harsh about it.  Or am I understanding you incorrectly?  If your printer was licensed, I could also believe them going after someone printing new versions of your stuff off-license - that license cost money and that other printer is in essence stealing profit potential from you.

[DarkDerp]

 Wizards of the Coast was a client of PBM Graphics. It was a exclusive deal where all printing was done by PBM.   Bigger print companies generally want more than an individual campaign when they are looking to fill up their web press. At 40,000 impressions an hour its either making you money or bleeding you dry.

I think for PBM it was about quality control. They didnt want the market saturated with cheap rip offs that would reflect badly upon the product. Also the Owner of PBM and Wizards of the Coast had a unique relationship. It was one of PBMs first clients and when Pokemon took off it took them from a small print company to one of the largest.

[Don Boyer]

Wizards of the Coast was a client of PBM Graphics. It was a exclusive deal where all printing was done by PBM.   Bigger print companies generally want more than an individual campaign when they are looking to fill up their web press. At 40,000 impressions an hour its either making you money or bleeding you dry.

I think for PBM it was about quality control. They didnt want the market saturated with cheap rip offs that would reflect badly upon the product. Also the Owner of PBM and Wizards of the Coast had a unique relationship. It was one of PBMs first clients and when Pokemon took off it took them from a small print company to one of the largest.

Interesting.  I remember when they were first making Magic: the Gathering cards, they were using some tiny little printer from one of the independent Italian city-states - damned if I can remember the company or the city, other than that the city's name was two words.

That's one of the big reasons why USPC works hard on stopping counterfeiters of their products.  Often they're unable to go after the printer (China can be like that much of the time!) and they instead look for the distributors within borders of countries where they can go after them.