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vixentorgames · « **on:** March 24, 2014, 10:19:19 PM »

Some of you may have noticed the Plugged Nickel cards didn't hit their funding goal. In fact, we missed by a hell of a lot. Part of that was my lack of marketing ability, but more than part of it was, no doubt, due to the design. I got a lot of good advice here before I started the Kickstarter, but I would really love to come back and get more help to make these as great as I can.

I'm going to start with the number cards and work my way through, picking the deck apart and putting it back together again. And if I can find a way to increase the appeal of the Rusted Tin deck (which I like a lot, but willingly concede it could be a lot better), that would be even better.

So this is the eight of spades:

Here are some things I know I want to do:

1. Lose the barbed wire border and replace it with a line, but perhaps something with some flavor to it. I'm thinking old wood, bent nails, chunky metal, that kind of thing. Right now this is all just sketches.

2. Figure out the big pips. They're kind of overdosing on barbed wire, and I know that didn't go over very well. Maybe something still thematic, but not as irregular.

3. Bigger numbers, and bolder corner pips.

Any other advice or suggestions would be thoroughly welcome and much appreciated.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2014, 11:30:32 PM »

OK, first of all, if you're going to make playing cards, you need to know what they are first - that's an eight of CLUBS, not SPADES.

You want to lose the barbed wire but stick with the theme? Why not just lose the barbed wire? Few people liked it and the only time I ever see spot cards with a border around the pips is on jumbo decks - and I was never very fond of it there, either..

While you're at it, ditch the faux aged look as well. It's tired and overdone. I can think of a number of ways you can change this design into something genuinely unique and attractive without that look.

You should send me a PM - I do consulting for card designers and I have decent rates. My biggest client to date has been Uusi, and I've worked with them on all but their very first deck.

maggock · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2014, 03:19:50 AM »

Okay, I've given it a little thought, and this is what I would do if I was given the art assets to this project.

Dump the barbed wire borders and the big pips. It looks all right in some places on the court cards but otherwise feels like a barbed wire OD to me.
Redo the big pips completely, and make them 100% symmetrical. I think a big problem with them at the moment is they're neither asymmetrical enough nor symmetrical enough, so they look oddly misshapen and lumpy in a displeasing way. They have to veer more strongly in one direction or another, and my personal preference for pips is symmetry.
Redo the backgrounds of the court cards to look more like wanted posters. Add text to the background, make it look like a poster the courts are popping out of, make the big pips look like they were printed on paper. Instead of the barbed wire border, make it look like old and torn paper. IF this was done, I think the use of the paper texture would be fine, as it has a purpose in the design, rather than feeling just thrown in there for the sake of having texture.
I think I would also lower the contrast and saturation on that paper to make the courts pop more from the background.
I would also use the torn edge border on the number cards, for the sake of continuity.

Like I said, this is just what I would do with the assets - feel free to take those suggestions or leave them! Aside from a few problems, I think you have a good potential deck on your hands and I hope you can work out the kinks.

ETA: Also, when you relaunch the kickstarter project, I would consider making the Rusted Tin deck a stretch goal. a $25k goal for a first project is very ambitious, and it would have better chances if the goal was around $15-18k, with the extra design a stretch goal.

lrw1951 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2014, 11:16:42 PM »

I liked everything about the cards except the skull you had on the Ace of Spades, the dice and cover of card box. I could not figure out what it was. It kind of looked like a horse skull but wasn't sure. I think if you changed to a Buffalo skull or Longhorn steer skull it would be more appealing . Loved the barbed-wire on everything, that's part of the Old West. Hope you keep the dice also but just change that horse skull to a Buffalo or Longhorn. Maybe have a vote of some kind to see what the public would like.

vixentorgames · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2014, 12:00:08 AM »

It's a wolf skull. I'll look at changing it. No guarantees, though - I was pretty damned happy with the wolf. A longhorn skull would fit, too, and would be more identifiable. And I'm not sure it would fit inside a spade.

Dan, Maggock, I've tried some of the changes you suggested. Smooth, symmetrical pips, and the wanted poster background was brilliant. I did put 'WANTED' on it at first, but it looked like I was trying too hard to make the theme fit. It was overly literal, I guess.

Anyway, the new changes are presented on the 10 of clubs (not spades), just to see how they work with the 10 (being the only two-character card).

These pips were a quick test just to see if they would work; if I like them after I have time to sleep on them, I'll actually hand-draw the barbed wire that coils around the inside of the pips and push the color contrast a little to make the barbed wire pop out a little more. I still want to have a lot of barbed wire on the cards, so hiding it in the pips means you still get that when you're not looking at a face card.

maggock · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2014, 12:56:53 AM »

I think it's going in a good direction so far! The barbed wire on your new pips looks much cleaner - you just need to refine it and lighten it so it's more visible. If you want another suggestion: put different animal skulls on all the aces. Wolf, horse, buffalo, longhorn, one for each ace (I'm personally a big fan of having all the aces be 'fancy', it's just a good way to get more cool art on the cards.)

vixentorgames · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2014, 01:25:05 AM »

Holy crap, dude, that's a great idea!

And I know someone is going to groan, but I'm TOTALLY putting barbed wire on those skulls.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2014, 05:22:10 AM »

You should also push the indices further into the corner.

I had a different idea for the look of the spot cards, but this "wanted poster" thing works well. You can push it a little further by making a "real" wanted poster in the background, but make the images and lettering a faint shade of grey so as to not interfere with reading/counting pips. The printing need not even be sharp or distinct - a little blur would keep the poster from being distracting while still giving the impression that it's a wanted poster.

vixentorgames · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2014, 10:00:31 PM »

Don, I tried adding text to the paper when I first tried it, but it looked overly literal, like I was trying too hard. I faded it way back and blurred it a little, and it still just kind of looked like I pasted it in there.

I did refine the club pips. Now I can move on to the other three pips, and then tune up the aces and jokers. The aces will take a little longer - it's going to take me a while to draw three more skull pictures.

vixentorgames · « **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2014, 03:46:21 AM »

I just finished updating the pips for all four suits, which means I'm about to start drawing a whole lot of skulls, if three counts for a whole lot. Here are the cards with the suits refined:

Feedback would be wonderful.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #10 on:** March 30, 2014, 06:26:06 AM »

Definite improvement. Better than before.

Syrus · « **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2014, 11:01:31 AM »

I'm loving the new pips, they definitely look a lot cleaner and more attractive. I'm not sure if it's an illusion created by the gradient inside of the diamond, but it looks to me that the barbed wire inside of the diamond pip is sitting a bit closer to the dark point than the lighter point. Everything else looks nice and centered, but that one seems to be "sinking" just a bit.

I have to say that I was a fan of the barbed wire border on all the cards, but I also like the aged paper look that you've replaced it with. And I can't wait to see the other skulls for the other aces!

(As an aside, I totally plan to use this deck for my next game of Deadlands, so I can't wait for it to get back to Kickstarter!!)

vixentorgames · « **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2014, 06:08:57 PM »

Syrus, you're right, the diamond was off. That's what I get for designing at 3 in the morning. Thanks for noticing that. They're fixed now, though I have not uploaded new images because I'm drawing skulls all day.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2014, 12:16:12 AM »

Quote from: Syrus on March 30, 2014, 11:01:31 AM

I'm loving the new pips, they definitely look a lot cleaner and more attractive. I'm not sure if it's an illusion created by the gradient inside of the diamond, but it looks to me that the barbed wire inside of the diamond pip is sitting a bit closer to the dark point than the lighter point. Everything else looks nice and centered, but that one seems to be "sinking" just a bit.

I have to say that I was a fan of the barbed wire border on all the cards, but I also like the aged paper look that you've replaced it with. And I can't wait to see the other skulls for the other aces!

(As an aside, I totally plan to use this deck for my next game of Deadlands, so I can't wait for it to get back to Kickstarter!!)

First of all, Syrus, allow me to welcome you to the Discourse! When you have a moment, stop by the "Introduce Yourself" board and let the rest of us get to know you better.

When you mentioned Deadlands, that brought up memories - I used to collect CCGs and I always liked the look of the one based on Deadlands but could never find anyone interested in playing, so I never picked any up.

If you like the "aged deck/Western" look, there's a few other decks available now you can check out. Ellusionist carries the Bicycle Series 1800 in red and blue as part of their regular stock, and some playing card retailers still have some of the Bicycle Americana deck in stock. They're worth a look, especially the Americanas - sheriffs as kings, bandits as jacks, and barmaids (plus one strict-lookin' nun) as queens!

There's also been two decks on Kickstarter based on La Dia de los Muertes.

vixentorgames · « **Reply #14 on:** April 01, 2014, 09:06:49 PM »

Work is going well on the aces. Thought I would post up the ace of hearts. I'll be replacing the ace of spades on the tuck box with the cow skull here.

The four skulls will be wolf (spades), cow (hearts), horse (clubs) and buzzard (diamonds). I'm not going to be posting them here - I think these are one part I have covered.

I would like to see what you guys think of the jokers. The last one is the art card - I'm pretty happy with that, though I will be changing the background to the lighter paper I'm using in the rest of the deck. Same with the jokers - everything is getting rid of the barbed wire frame and using the wanted poster backdrop.

lrw1951 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 02, 2014, 02:25:51 PM »

Love the new Ace of Hearts !!!

Quote from: vixentorgames on April 01, 2014, 09:06:49 PM

Work is going well on the aces. Thought I would post up the ace of hearts. I'll be replacing the ace of spades on the tuck box with the cow skull here.

The four skulls will be wolf (spades), cow (hearts), horse (clubs) and buzzard (diamonds). I'm not going to be posting them here - I think these are one part I have covered.

I would like to see what you guys think of the jokers. The last one is the art card - I'm pretty happy with that, though I will be changing the background to the lighter paper I'm using in the rest of the deck. Same with the jokers - everything is getting rid of the barbed wire frame and using the wanted poster backdrop.

[img width=920 height=537]http://vixentorgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/WP-jokers.jpg[

Love the Ace of Hearts !!!!

vixentorgames · « **Reply #16 on:** April 03, 2014, 04:05:21 PM »

I'm very happy with the redesign on the wanted poster deck. Thanks, everyone, for all your help. Hopefully you'll stick around when I start posting up images for the rusted tin deck - that one needs help.

Here's the updated black joker (I fixed the red joker, too).

Syrus · « **Reply #17 on:** April 06, 2014, 11:02:55 AM »

New ace of hearts looks like it's coming along very well! Can't wait to see the colorized version.

Also, I feel like there is a lot of white space bordering the cards.. any thoughts to pushing the wanted poster edge out a bit?

DarkDerp · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2014, 02:53:13 PM »

I like the sketches, really nice work. Not a big fan of the barbed wire, or the faded old timey look, I. Fact if you just went straight illustrated line work I'd jump on board real fast.

vixentorgames · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2014, 03:10:51 PM »

Yeah, Derp, I think we're getting down to the land of 'can't please everybody.' I had a lot of people telling me they loved the barbed wire, and several suggestions for a faded paper backdrop.

But maybe that straight line art idea is what I need for the second deck. I've been so focused on getting the wanted poster deck ready that I haven't had time to commit to the rusted tin deck. That suggestion has a whole bucketload of merit. I'm going to try that today.

Syrus, that's basically the place where the border exists on a standard deck of cards. It can't go out to the right or left, unless I do that dodge-around like I originally did with the barbed wire, and then it wouldn't be a 'poster' any more, because I would have to clip the corners around the numbers. If it moves out to the top and bottom, it will create a dissonance between the top and the sides. Right now the border is the same width all the way around.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #20 on:** April 07, 2014, 02:00:09 AM »

I think you're doing pretty well so far. All in all, the deck has improved. No, you will never please everyone, but I think you've given many people who held off the first time a reason for being more interested the second time.

vixentorgames · « **Reply #21 on:** April 07, 2014, 05:36:40 PM »

Thanks, Dan. I really appreciate you saying that. I'm pretty darn happy with how the Wanted Poster deck is looking now - it's actually all bundled up and ready to send to the printer.

If there's anyone left who is not completely exhausted with this entire process, I would love to get some ideas about the redesigned Rusted Tin:

Yes, I used the same face-card art for red and black. No, the actual deck will not do that.

Derp, I would especially like to know what you think about this one, since you expressed an interest in straight line art.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #22 on:** April 07, 2014, 07:23:06 PM »

Quote from: vixentorgames on April 07, 2014, 05:36:40 PM

Thanks, Dan. I really appreciate you saying that. I'm pretty darn happy with how the Wanted Poster deck is looking now - it's actually all bundled up and ready to send to the printer.

If there's anyone left who is not completely exhausted with this entire process, I would love to get some ideas about the redesigned Rusted Tin:

Why do so many people call me Dan (short for Daniel) when my name is Don (short for Donald)?

I'd say lose the frames - other than that, it's pretty good.

vixentorgames · « **Reply #23 on:** April 07, 2014, 10:38:57 PM »

I do not know why I did that. I had a guy at work call me Mark for a year and a half, so I get how irritating it is. But Don it is from now on.

I tried it without the frame, but it looks like the central figure is ungrounded, just floating there.

I definitely don't like it with the disembodied double-man floating in white space. I could live with it on the light background. But I think the frame anchors the design in the middle of the card, whether it's a dude or a bunch of pips.

I'll have to spend a while thinking on it and looking at it. Maybe if the outline of the frame were about half the weight it is now?

Don Boyer · « **Reply #24 on:** April 08, 2014, 01:27:38 AM »

You see what you did with the two images on the right? There's no frame, just a "slab" of pale background color that's noticeable but unobtrusive. PERFECT.