Kings - Ellusionist, Madison & McKinnon

[Card Player]

Kings - Ellusionist, Madison & McKinnon

[Paul.Middleton]

This was posted by Daniel on Facebook. I believe he's a fan of the Misc Goods Co decks, and to me - it seems to definitely be a little inspired by that look.

And another image was posted by Peter Mckinnon on Instagram here - http://instagram.com/p/miRstGmIbQ/ - so it looks like it's designed by him.

EDIT - I see the images have now been added above.

[Card Player]

This was posted by Daniel on Facebook. I believe he's a fan of the Misc Goods Co decks, and to me - it seems to definitely be a little inspired by that look.

And another image was posted by Peter Mckinnon on Instagram here - http://instagram.com/p/miRstGmIbQ/ - so it looks like it's designed by him.

EDIT - I see the images have now been added above.

I don't see the resemblance to Misc Goods Co. Playing Cards. It reminds me of Madison Players with a new design replacing the Madison logo.

[Don Boyer]

Note the advertisement for "Heritage" by Daniel Madison at E has two crosses axes of the same design as what's on the back of this deck...

Any word on a release date?

[Paul.Middleton]

Any word on a release date?

No, but from past experience it's tended to be 2-3 weeks after tease photos that a DM deck gets released. I'd guess at the end of April.

[Card Player]

Note the advertisement for "Heritage" by Daniel Madison at E has two crosses axes of the same design as what's on the back of this deck...

Any word on a release date?

The Axe was first seen on DM's book #MadisonSaid.

[Don Boyer]

Note the advertisement for "Heritage" by Daniel Madison at E has two crosses axes of the same design as what's on the back of this deck...

Any word on a release date?

The Axe was first seen on DM's book #MadisonSaid.

Well, sorta - it was REALLY first seen in the possession of THIS man, below, alias "the man with the ax..."

[Card Player]

Note the advertisement for "Heritage" by Daniel Madison at E has two crosses axes of the same design as what's on the back of this deck...

Any word on a release date?

The Axe was first seen on DM's book #MadisonSaid.

Well, sorta - it was REALLY first seen in the possession of THIS man, below, alias "the man with the ax..."

Very true! I walked right into that. lol

[hawk199]

For those who aren't aware about this

https://www.ellusionist.com/kings-inverted-playing-cards-by-peter-mckinnon-and-daniel-madison.html

Only, $10 USD

This should be the " 1300 deck* " reminding deck avaliable, release to the non-black club member..so enjoy

*Saw it in the description but they seem to have change it

[Don Boyer]

For those who aren't aware about this

https://www.ellusionist.com/kings-inverted-playing-cards-by-peter-mckinnon-and-daniel-madison.html

Only, $10 USD

This should be the " 1300 deck* " reminding deck avaliable, release to the non-black club member..so enjoy

*Saw it in the description but they seem to have change it

It's possible that they pulled it from the description because it wasn't accurate.  They may have made more than 1,300.  It's possible there was originally only 1,300 and they made at least one extra print run since then.  There's many other possibilities, but the point is that if they pulled it from the ad text, there's usually a reason for doing so, the most common of which being "We said something that wasn't true and our lawyers freaked out so we're trying to cover our asses and retract the statement."  Mere mistakes and typos aren't worth the effort, but legal liability is a powerful motivator.

[hawk199]

Ya I myself won't do that to just cover my ass and because 1300+/- is quite a specific number

So not too sure about this is the remainding of 5000 deck made or this reprint run and so on ~.~

And sorry for the trouble of finding this thread, searched for "Kings Inverted" but didnt see any related in the first few results

[Don Boyer]

Ya I myself won't do that to just cover my ass and because 1300+/- is quite a specific number

So not too sure about this is the remainding of 5000 deck made or this reprint run and so on ~.~

And sorry for the trouble of finding this thread, searched for "Kings Inverted" but didnt see any related in the first few results

There's a lot of things one can get away with in advertising, but outright, bald-faced lies isn't one of them.  If a deck run is claimed as 1,300 and isn't even remotely that number, you could run into issues with false claims.  I've seen them let typos and such slip by unchanged - I would think they had deeper motivation to make the change they did, assuming they made a claim somewhere about how many of the deck existed or were available and that number wasn't correct.

[vasta41]

One thing's for sure- no one is better at devaluing their own decks better than E. Almost every "rare, never sold" deck of theirs is or was available at far less than what people were originally paying for it.

[Frost]

$10 for a really simple deck of cards. really !!!!! plus shipping onother $5 i'll pass.

[Don Boyer]

One thing's for sure- no one is better at devaluing their own decks better than E. Almost every "rare, never sold" deck of theirs is or was available at far less than what people were originally paying for it.

...major exceptions being the Black Ghost First Edition and Gold Arcane, both of which they're pretty much out of.

[hecrob]

This feels like a sucker punch...

We were told this deck was not going to be sold and then after the price escalated quite a bit, they kill it releasing it for $10.

Way to go Ellusionist....

This was the last straw for Ellusionist im not buying their "black club membership" again.

[Don Boyer]

This feels like a sucker punch...

We were told this deck was not going to be sold and then after the price escalated quite a bit, they kill it releasing it for $10.

Way to go Ellusionist....

This was the last straw for Ellusionist im not buying their "black club membership" again.

Sorry to hear that, bro.  I bailed after year one, haven't regretted it.  Just too much money and not enough value in return.

So this was a Black Club exclusive, advertised as rare or something to that effect, then they just started selling them?  Man, that looks like a real back stabbing.

[hecrob]

It was advertised in December as an exclusive deck, never to be sold by itself and that only small quantities of that deck were made... (this was written on an email) and now theres magically 1300 decks. (im sure they have more but they are not telling us how many).

This was just like what happened with the revolvers... first they tease it for a really long time, then they say its going to be available on X day of December, then they suddenly make a random number of them available weeks before the actual release date, they say only a small quantity a day but in reality you can buy as much of them as you want (some friends and i bough more than the alleged limit number they said they had for each day) and finally we get them on X day of December.

Way to go Ellusionist... way to go.

[Don Boyer]

It was advertised in December as an exclusive deck, never to be sold by itself and that only small quantities of that deck were made... (this was written on an email) and now theres magically 1300 decks. (im sure they have more but they are not telling us how many).

This was just like what happened with the revolvers... first they tease it for a really long time, then they say its going to be available on X day of December, then they suddenly make a random number of them available weeks before the actual release date, they say only a small quantity a day but in reality you can buy as much of them as you want (some friends and i bough more than the alleged limit number they said they had for each day) and finally we get them on X day of December.

Way to go Ellusionist... way to go.

They seem to have lost their way a bit in regard to deck designs and releases.

[vasta41]

This feels like a sucker punch...

We were told this deck was not going to be sold and then after the price escalated quite a bit, they kill it releasing it for $10.

Way to go Ellusionist....

This was the last straw for Ellusionist im not buying their "black club membership" again.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. In 2008-2009 people were paying upwards of $125 for a 1st Edition Black Ghost.  A few years back E released them again (with shrink wrap) and the market got saturated.  Now they barely sell for $75.  Not that the selling prices necessarily translates to what they're worth but it gives you an idea.  Don's right about the Gold Arcane- other than that E has or will re-release "never-to-be-sold" decks so never hold your breath.

[HankMan]

I never even bother checking ellusionist now. I realised there were so many great deck produced out there.

[Don Boyer]

This feels like a sucker punch...

We were told this deck was not going to be sold and then after the price escalated quite a bit, they kill it releasing it for $10.

Way to go Ellusionist....

This was the last straw for Ellusionist im not buying their "black club membership" again.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. In 2008-2009 people were paying upwards of $125 for a 1st Edition Black Ghost.  A few years back E released them again (with shrink wrap) and the market got saturated.  Now they barely sell for $75.  Not that the selling prices necessarily translates to what they're worth but it gives you an idea.  Don's right about the Gold Arcane- other than that E has or will re-release "never-to-be-sold" decks so never hold your breath.

Now that's not entirely fair to say.  Ellusionist, at least with the Gold Arcanes, the BG1Es and the Red Artifice decks, was always up front about how many were made - they were made in runs of 5,000 at a time when 5,000 was a short run, and except for the initial release of the Red Artifice, none of them were even available for sale - you had to earn them in a contest or as a premium for buying certain amounts of merchandise or during a special limited-time offer.  Only 3,000 of the Red Artifice were sold, the rest were premiums like the other two brands.

E can't be held responsible for what people are willing to pay for a deck of cards in the market - BG1E used to go for over FOUR HUNDRED BUCKS a pack on eBay at one point, back when they were only given as gifts to prominent magicians and cardists.  People still try to get top dollar for the ones in the original steel frames, as high as the low four figures.  Now that E is no longer giving them away for any reason (their stock is depleted), the price has nowhere else to go but up, really, especially as decks are lost through attrition - damaged, used, lost, destroyed, etc.

[vasta41]

This feels like a sucker punch...

We were told this deck was not going to be sold and then after the price escalated quite a bit, they kill it releasing it for $10.

Way to go Ellusionist....

This was the last straw for Ellusionist im not buying their "black club membership" again.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. In 2008-2009 people were paying upwards of $125 for a 1st Edition Black Ghost.  A few years back E released them again (with shrink wrap) and the market got saturated.  Now they barely sell for $75.  Not that the selling prices necessarily translates to what they're worth but it gives you an idea.  Don's right about the Gold Arcane- other than that E has or will re-release "never-to-be-sold" decks so never hold your breath.

Now that's not entirely fair to say.  Ellusionist, at least with the Gold Arcanes, the BG1Es and the Red Artifice decks, was always up front about how many were made - they were made in runs of 5,000 at a time when 5,000 was a short run, and except for the initial release of the Red Artifice, none of them were even available for sale - you had to earn them in a contest or as a premium for buying certain amounts of merchandise or during a special limited-time offer.  Only 3,000 of the Red Artifice were sold, the rest were premiums like the other two brands.

E can't be held responsible for what people are willing to pay for a deck of cards in the market - BG1E used to go for over FOUR HUNDRED BUCKS a pack on eBay at one point, back when they were only given as gifts to prominent magicians and cardists.  People still try to get top dollar for the ones in the original steel frames, as high as the low four figures.  Now that E is no longer giving them away for any reason (their stock is depleted), the price has nowhere else to go but up, really, especially as decks are lost through attrition - damaged, used, lost, destroyed, etc.

You raise some good points but I think where our opinions differ is I think while they may not have directly sold those rare decks you spoke of they did end up releasing more to the public.  I don't question their methods- hell, they can do what they want as far as I'm concerned.  I don't care about that like some people do.  What I'm pointing out is simply their market dilution by releasing/selling/whatever-you-want-to-call-it the decks at all.  A very basic and crude example would be if 100 people wanted a deck of theirs that E only gave to 10 people- that deck would be in demand.  It might cause people to spend more for it, thus increasing its value.  Years later if they released another 60 (somehow, some way- doesn't really matter), more people would have one and they would become less valuable.  To me, that's what they're doing with these Kings- making them more available and less valuable, IMO anyway...

[Don Boyer]

You raise some good points but I think where our opinions differ is I think while they may not have directly sold those rare decks you spoke of they did end up releasing more to the public.  I don't question their methods- hell, they can do what they want as far as I'm concerned.  I don't care about that like some people do.  What I'm pointing out is simply their market dilution by releasing/selling/whatever-you-want-to-call-it the decks at all.  A very basic and crude example would be if 100 people wanted a deck of theirs that E only gave to 10 people- that deck would be in demand.  It might cause people to spend more for it, thus increasing its value.  Years later if they released another 60 (somehow, some way- doesn't really matter), more people would have one and they would become less valuable.  To me, that's what they're doing with these Kings- making them more available and less valuable, IMO anyway...

The key difference is that with those early rare decks, E never left any doubt about how many such decks existed, regardless of how many ended up in people's hands.  There was always 5,000 - no more, no less.  Prices would drop when they held a special akin to "Buy $75 of stuff, get a deck free," but those specials happened perhaps twice a year - the eBay market was temporarily flooded with that deck, but then within a week or two, the fervor died down and the market price stabilized again as fewer of them were available on eBay.  The decks were always held as premium decks - not purchasable, only obtained as a shopper's special giveaway for spending at a certain tier or as a prize for winning a contest.  While there were occasional "bursts" released in a real bargain-basement special, the decks never changed in rarity in the eyes of the public - we always knew how many were out there in total.

For that Madison deck, it appears that they were never terribly forthcoming about the total made, nor did they maintain their release policy.  It was a Black Club deck - but then it was a deck made for sale to whoever wanted to buy it.  Assuming they made claims of permanent exclusivity, then yes, they really screwed over the club members.  But it's a relatively new development, not something they've been doing all along.  And now that those early rare decks are largely unavailable - at least concerning the Gold Arcane and the Black Ghost First Edition - the market value has nowhere to go but up as attrition reduces the total number and the original source is dried up and no longer distributing.