Sherlock Holmes - Moriarty Edition Reprint - Playing Cards

[badpete69]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1722808047/sherlock-holmes-moriarty-edition-reprint-playing-c

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

... and the errored decks will be selling on eBay for....?

[badpete69]

probably not much. Everyone will have them from the first KS

[bhong]

I think it depends on how on the market is: how much people want it and how much people are willing to pay for it? That's always hard to say. Maybe in a few year they might go for a lot as they're less available but these things are hard to judge. Now if Jackson was to burn all the V1 Moriarty he had left that aren't shipped out to backers... that'd be a different story.

[S. Carey]

He has the v1 error decks on his site listed for $10 (avail. late April). I do not know how much the v1's will go for on ebay when they can just get them off Jackson for $10.

This whole thing kind of baffles me. I realize he offered refunds (at that point no deck will be shipped) but it still comes at the cost of the backer because they aren't going to get what they thought they were getting when they originally pledged. They have to pledge for this new campaign if they want a fully functional deck of cards. And the deck they pledge for in this new campaign is an updated box so its different from the original campaign. I get the response will be if they do not want the error v1, they can ask for a refund and then pledge for this new v2 campaign. Easy enough. But what a hassle for a product that isn't even the original design. Not to mention, if you use the extra cards to fix the original, then you have a v2 Moriarty deck with only 54 cards without a v2 sherlock deck counterpart. So a complete set of the Sherlock series has an extra Moriarty.     

This also coming from a company who has been all about quality and ridding the market of crap. I do not understand why he would want this product on the market with errors. Sure it looks great but it has functional errors. Paul from Encarded reprinted his last project at zero cost to the backer (except for time) when DECO was not at the quality that he wanted it. Backers waited some extra time and got the cards they originally thought they were getting free of any errors. Then Paul sold the errors on his site like Jackson is planning to do with his errors.

I canceled my pledge for this project because it was around Christmas time and I wanted to save. I am not personally impacted by all this so this is just an observational opinion. However, if I were in this position, I would wait for a reprint of the original design and prefer not to deal with a new design/v2/new project/refund.     

[vmagic]

Yeah these should have been reprinted without the extra campaign like Paul did. Actually I'm not sure why he didn't just reprint the affected cards and then include them with the orders, like Blue Crown did before.

[Rob Wright]

He has the v1 error decks on his site listed for $10 (avail. late April). I do not know how much the v1's will go for on ebay when they can just get them off Jackson for $10.

This whole thing kind of baffles me. I realize he offered refunds (at that point no deck will be shipped) but it still comes at the cost of the backer because they aren't going to get what they thought they were getting when they originally pledged. They have to pledge for this new campaign if they want a fully functional deck of cards. And the deck they pledge for in this new campaign is an updated box so its different from the original campaign. I get the response will be if they do not want the error v1, they can ask for a refund and then pledge for this new v2 campaign. Easy enough. But what a hassle for a product that isn't even the original design. Not to mention, if you use the extra cards to fix the original, then you have a v2 Moriarty deck with only 54 cards without a v2 sherlock deck counterpart. So a complete set of the Sherlock series has an extra Moriarty.     

This also coming from a company who has been all about quality and ridding the market of crap. I do not understand why he would want this product on the market with errors. Sure it looks great but it has functional errors. Paul from Encarded reprinted his last project at zero cost to the backer (except for time) when DECO was not at the quality that he wanted it. Backers waited some extra time and got the cards they originally thought they were getting free of any errors. Then Paul sold the errors on his site like Jackson is planning to do with his errors.

I canceled my pledge for this project because it was around Christmas time and I wanted to save. I am not personally impacted by all this so this is just an observational opinion. However, if I were in this position, I would wait for a reprint of the original design and prefer not to deal with a new design/v2/new project/refund.   

I believe he has given the customers a choice of what they want to do

1. Keep the V1 version
2. Get a refund for the V1 version
3. Get a refund for V1, and back the new V2
4. Keep the V1, and back the nee V2
5. If you didn't back the V1- now's your chance to get the V2

If you just get the V2. You can still use the 2 extra cards for gaffs, or something. If your a gambler you can...........use them. 

There is an argument that maybe he should have reprinted, since he made a mistake, but I think most people are ok with this solution.

[S. Carey]

I believe he has given the customers a choice of what they want to do

1. Keep the V1 version
2. Get a refund for the V1 version
3. Get a refund for V1, and back the new V2
4. Keep the V1, and back the nee V2
5. If you didn't back the V1- now's your chance to get the V2

If you just get the V2. You can still use the 2 extra cards for gaffs, or something. If your a gambler you can...........use them. 

There is an argument that maybe he should have reprinted, since he made a mistake, but I think most people are ok with this solution.

Since he made a mistake is the key phrase. If he is cool with most people being ok with the solution than fine but given how much he talks about quality, I would think he would want everyone to be happy.

Just my two cents. I was already called a moron for expressing this argument on Facebook lol. Apparently this v1 is going to be the most valuable deck on the market. Can't wait to snatch it up for $10 when Jackson puts them on sale.

[JacksonRobinson]

I believe he has given the customers a choice of what they want to do

1. Keep the V1 version
2. Get a refund for the V1 version
3. Get a refund for V1, and back the new V2
4. Keep the V1, and back the nee V2
5. If you didn't back the V1- now's your chance to get the V2

If you just get the V2. You can still use the 2 extra cards for gaffs, or something. If your a gambler you can...........use them. 

There is an argument that maybe he should have reprinted, since he made a mistake, but I think most people are ok with this solution.

Since he made a mistake is the key phrase. If he is cool with most people being ok with the solution than fine but given how much he talks about quality, I would think he would want everyone to be happy.

Just my two cents. I was already called a moron for expressing this argument on Facebook lol. Apparently this v1 is going to be the most valuable deck on the market. Can't wait to snatch it up for $10 when Jackson puts them on sale.

It will be $16 cuz shipping isn't free as it is on kickstarter.

[bhong]

I think with the Deco, it's a different kind of issue. That ended up being the machines used to fold the tucks that ended up damaging it so it was solely USPCC so technically they'd have to take it back to fix. As for the Moriarty deck, that's a hard one and I'm not sure what the behind the scenes talk as technically USPCC is paid to do proofing as well since they do do checks and proofs of the cards before it's sent off to print.

I guess if anything, the argument could be made that most backers will more than likely never open their decks anyway, which is probably not the best one to make sure.

Yes, it is an inconvenience to backers though a lot seem quite happy and are glad to keep it, error and all. I know a few Sherlock fans that actually laugh at what happen in that, to them, it seems like just the thing that would happen with a deck named after Moriarty. As per making everyone happy, I think that's impossible. There will probably always be a small few that will find some issue to take with it. That is not to say, someone shouldn't try. It seems that Jackson is trying to do everything he can to make as many backers happy as possible. They get that choice of taking a refund or keeping their deck(s). No one has to have a "complete" collection. Some are quite happy having just one deck out of the 5 or which ones that pleases them. I will point out that the Moriarty deck that end up getting upgraded with new courts over just being a complete recolour so things aren't perfect, but they are better than they can be.

I would ask you to point out any Kickstarter creator that is so willing to freely and regularly offers refunds to backer that ask for it. I will bet it'd be a small list if you could make a list at all.

As for 54 usable cards over having 56 decks in a deck. Honestly, most decks end up being produced, more often than not, with 2 ad/junk cards that aren't really usable anyway. I know that double backer is quite useful for a lot of people, but for more regular card player, I'm sure they just keep it in the tuckbox, toss it out or have a fancy coaster for awhile.

[S. Carey]

I'll back down. Since I didn't pledge and most people seem not to care about the flaw and how it was handled, I will just stop beating a dead horse. Clearly it was a bummer of a situation but it seems people are getting what they want so all is good. 

You are right though. Refunds on Kickstarter usually don't happen.

[CBJ]

It just seems to me that there is absolutely ZERO way to please everyone.

This is the solution that is in motion. If people are not happy with the situation, get a refund and move along.

There really is nothing else that can be done at this point.


I for one am very okay with how Jackson is handling this, and I will most likely grab the corrected deck... and still keep my flawed deck.
And for those that don't know.. I'm an international backer.



Jay

[verloren]

I for one am very okay with how Jackson is handling this, and I will most likely grab the corrected deck... and still keep my flawed deck.
And for those that don't know.. I'm an international backer.

Same here. And I'll probably pick up another V1 just for kicks.

[Don Boyer]

I'll back down. Since I didn't pledge and most people seem not to care about the flaw and how it was handled, I will just stop beating a dead horse. Clearly it was a bummer of a situation but it seems people are getting what they want so all is good. 

You are right though. Refunds on Kickstarter usually don't happen.

Know that we wouldn't call you a moron here simply for having an opinion contrary to the majority.  If people did, I wouldn't be very happy about it.  Minority voices deserve to be heard - just because the majority holds a different opinion, that doesn't automatically make their opinion the correct one.

Just sayin'...

Personally, I think he could have done much worse as far as solutions go.  This one is pretty elegant.  I can think of countless tricks where having a double of something other than a joker on hand would be exceptionally useful, so anyone just jumping in on the second version should be perfectly happy with it.  Alternately, you can write on them, making them into jokers...  Point being, it's rare that a solution to a problem is a perfect one when it has this many variables, but I believe this is as close to a perfect solution as Jackson could make.

[Utterfool]

Know that we wouldn't call you a moron here simply for having an opinion contrary to the majority.

Don is right.
We have much more sophisticated ways of belittling the opinions, of people we disagree with, here.

[DarkDerp]

Don is right.
We have much more sophisticated ways of belittling the opinions, of people we disagree with, here.

Ha! That got me.

[S. Carey]

Don is right.
We have much more sophisticated ways of belittling the opinions, of people we disagree with, here.

Yeah I think my reputation points when down like 4 points since I stated my opinion. That is much more civil than calling me a moron. But I don't think have a contrary opinion makes me a bad poster.

Just so everyone is aware, my opinion comes from working years in the cigar industry where if a cigar maker puts out a flawed batch they will always reroll a brand new batch and won't even ship the flawed cigars. They scrap them or sell them without a band. Cigars are clearly different than cards and there is a reason this is always done in the cigar industry, taste being a huge factor. Its just what I am used to and I tend to hold a lot of companies to this standard.

[BiggerDee]

Well, since no one asked me for my opinion, I'll toss it in right here! :-)

Jackson is taking ownership of his products, good or bad. He made a video apologizing and explaining the situation, instead of firing off an impersonal e-mail full of excuses. He's giving people options in an attempt to make things right with as many people as possible. He's bending over backwards to take care of his backers, and I appreciate that and applaud his efforts. All of this while there are still qute a few KS projects that are in limbo (some permanently) due to deadbeat creators that set out to steal from backers, or who got into trouble by underestimating costs or effort involved (Michael Frommer's, Founders, et cetera). Not only did Jackson do the right thing, he's gone over and above what anyone would expect, all in the name of taking care of the folks that are taking care of him by buying his products. He could run in any direction, but he's standing tall, accepting responsibility, and taking care of us. I am a loyal customer and will remain so, not just because he puts out great products, but because he truly cares that I am happy and taken care of. Kudos, Jackson!



BTW, Thompson Cigar Company (catalog) used to sell a TON of second quality cigars, bought from manufacturers at a discount and sold to customers as flawed, and discounted accordingly. Not as non-branded, but as branded seconds from that manufacturer. Just checked their website...go to Outlet Sale and search on "seconds" and there are a ton for sale, with the manufacturer proudly listed. They have been selling them like this for at least 30 years that I am aware of.

[Shebhnt]

It's actually very common to find places that will sell flawed batches of their own product for discounted prices.  Often time there are people who would rather just have the product than worry about it being perfect. 

I understand what your saying about how they should have just suffered the costs and reprint them out but it doesn't make much business sense to do that and not still sell the misprints on the side.

[S. Carey]

The majority of the high end brands or boutique brands won't do this. Davidoff seconds, tatatuaje seconds and Ashton seconds are completely unheard of.

Thompson, which is a smaller competitor of the company I work for, strikes large deals to buy this stuff and its usually on their proprietary products or on mass produced stuff. Your average tobacco shop won't be able to purchase seconds. I think only a handful of distributors can carry banded seconds.

Also they are sold with the brand listed but you when you get them they will probably have no cigar band on them or it will have a generic brand band around the cigar. 

Anyway its completely off topic at this point. Sorry guys.

[Rob Wright]

Scott, your opinion is valid. Jackson could have had it reprinted, and just told backers it would be late because of USPCC's work load. No one would have been wiser, and most would still be happy.  I don't  know how much Jackson makes, but to pull $8-12K to pay for a reprint aould be a hard pill to swallow for anybody. I've backed all of his card projects. I've seen Jackson bend over backwards to try and please everyone.
In Pauls case, I believe he sent most decks back. So I don't know how much extra he had to pay.

Because you expressed your opinion & explained. I think that makes you a good poster. +1

[Anthony]

Rob beat me to it Scott, but I have my own opinions of the "Reputation" system....so +1 back at ya. ---Sparkz Rep as of this post 19, lets see what happes  ---

You may not agree with the options that were presented by Jackson, but at least he tried to give the backers something to work with. The reality is that Kings Wild is a business, and reprinting anything costs money beyond what you budgeted your project for. In the end, as stated, you could always return the deck, yes it's a hassel, but you have the option and be done with it.

Anyway, you have choices, find the one you can live with and move on.

[Paul Carpenter]

Just to clarify the Deco situation, that was a different circumstance than what we have here. USPCC failed to catch a major flaw in their production, it wasn't something that I overlooked or designed incorrectly. So in that case, teh fault lied solely with USPCC and they were obliged to take the product back and give me a replacement. It did not cost me anything other than some redesign time. In fact, because they ended up printing a few less the second time around, I actually got some money back.

I think jackson made a good choice. You will certainly never please everyone but his solution in reasonable. That deck, with that special of a tuck case is not a cheap product and even with the success of his projects that would be a burden to simply swallow that cost.

He could have said nothing and I bet most folks wouldn't even notice, but he's a stand up guy, explained the situation and did his best to correct a mistake. You really can't fault someone for that.

[JacksonRobinson]

The Moriarty reprint alone for 2500 decks will cost around $16,000. Thats with the price of the expensive tucks and custom hand applied seals. That doesn't even account for shipping.

[Sher143]

The Moriarty reprint alone for 2500 decks will cost around $16,000. Thats with the price of the expensive tucks and custom hand applied seals. That doesn't even account for shipping.

 

Good thing we'll reach 16k pretty easily.  Plus a little more for shipping Currently 467 people have got your back, and I'm sure there'll be more.