House of Cards Playing Cards (KS)

[bamabenz]

Don,
I totally agree. The House of Playing Cards Deck of Cards by "no reply design" is a blatant rip-off. Time will tell if the folks who own the copyright actually care. If they do then KS will pull the project and publish the DMCA takedown notice.
/bama

[bamabenz]

Pretty simple, Bama.

I got a DMCA takedown notice from the right full owner with documentation.

Say what?

From UC:
"Jackson has provided notice on the A C Doyle Estate letterhead sufficient for enforcement that both his and their IP (Intellectual Property) rights are being infringed.

Thread locked pending legal process."

New to me is that this was an official DMCA notice. Its sort of curious in that I believe the law states only the Copyright holder or their agent can file a notice.

Jackson has subsequently stated that he doesn't care, and I believe him. I'm guessing that this was sort of a knee-jerk reaction.

But it does point-out the need to have multiple independent forums for discussing playing cards.

Designers may fail on their first attempt in KS, yet try again and be successful. What's the likelihood that she'll come back to UC to discuss her next project when the discussion of her first deck gets locked?

/bama

[Mike Ratledge]

Obviously Jackson is the one that proved the infringement on his exclusive rights. You must not be up on DCMA, it is pretty cut & dry. If he didn't care, I would have to assume he would not have flagged the thread and provided period of infringement on his exclusive rights to produce playing cards for five years worldwide. I don't know why you are arguing frankly.

[bamabenz]

You mentioned that you are or were a lawyer, is that true or was it a joke?
If so, in which area did you specialize?
That's not a dig or nothing, I'm emphatically not a lawyer and I have no wish to argue with someone in their field of expertise.
That would be dumb!

[Mike Ratledge]

You mentioned that you are or were a lawyer, is that true or was it a joke?
If so, in which area did you specialize?
That's not a dig or nothing, I'm emphatically not a lawyer and I have no wish to argue with someone in their field of expertise.
That would be dumb!

"WAS" being the key word. IANAL any more, but I was, and member of the state bar for 15 years and their technology advisor for 20. I worked for the US Department of Justice for eight years. That I consider legalized stealing any more, I decided to get an honest job...

It's all in my Introduce Yourself thread. I am a Cyber Security Officer at Military Health System's Global Network Security Operations Center, have been for 18 years with a detour back to DOJ at the Executive Office for US Attorneys NSOC.

[bamabenz]

Gosh, now I remember reading your post.
I'm troubled that you state what you received proved infringement.
Will you post the takedown notice so we can discuss what it actually states, what was proven and what was demanded that be taken down?

/bama

[Mike Ratledge]

Gosh, now I remember reading your post.
I'm troubled that you state what you received proved infringement.
Will you post the takedown notice so we can discuss what it actually states, what was proven and what was demanded that be taken down?

/bama

Can't. That was the one thing that I agreed not to do when I asked to see it. I can assure you that I had no choice but to do what I did and what he has is legal and signed by all parties and unequivocal in the language - and signed by their attorney as well. Honestly, if I have what I think is a legitimate DCMA takedown request, I can't ignore it without putting myself and UC in jeopardy. Just for example check out eBay's DCMA takedown request requirements. Easy to find...

[bamabenz]

Can't. That was the one thing that I agreed not to do when I asked to see it.

You had to ask to see the takedown notice?
That doesn't make sense. I guess I wasn't clear. Just post the actual takedown notice, not any accompanying documentation.
That can't be private. Otherwise no one could ever dispute a takedown notice, or know what is being alleged.

[JacksonRobinson]

This and Sherlock are night and day. This is not only a living breathing IP it also has a full cast of actors who each own the rights to their faces and likenesses.

Old Game Dev Story:

Any body remember the Nintendo Game NBA Jams? I cheerleader from a NBA team sued the creators because the 8 bit cheerleader in the game had her likeness. AND SHE WON! Fan art or no this creator will get glassed if they don't watch it.

[bamabenz]

This and Sherlock are night and day. This is not only a living breathing IP it also has a full cast of actors who each own the rights to their faces and likenesses.

Old Game Dev Story:

Any body remember the Nintendo Game NBA Jams? I cheerleader from a NBA team sued the creators because the 8 bit cheerleader in the game had her likeness. AND SHE WON! Fan art or no this creator will get glassed if they don't watch it.

No argument there.
The character likeness's really make your decks stand-out.
I'm waiting on 40 of your decks to be delivered -- this week I hope!
I didn't pledge for the Museum decks.

The original thread died a good death here at the Discourse, but then he accused her of copyright violation again in this thread, and I hate to see a young kid just starting out getting the bum's rush out the door.

Let's agree to kill the conversation.

[Don Boyer]

Don,
I totally agree. The House of Playing Cards is a blatant rip-off. Time will tell if the folks who own the copyright actually care. If they do then KS will pull the project and publish the DMCA takedown notice.
/bama

I think you meant "Deck of Cards/House of Cards" rather than "House of Playing Cards", since HOPC isn't involved! 

If it's a Hollywood studio making a project driven by a major player (the lead actor is also the producer), then yes, the gears may move slowly but they will move.

Pretty simple, Bama.

I got a DMCA takedown notice from the right full owner with documentation.

Say what?

From UC:
"Jackson has provided notice on the A C Doyle Estate letterhead sufficient for enforcement that both his and their IP (Intellectual Property) rights are being infringed.

Thread locked pending legal process."

New to me is that this was an official DMCA notice. Its sort of curious in that I believe the law states only the Copyright holder or their agent can file a notice.

Jackson has subsequently stated that he doesn't care, and I believe him. I'm guessing that this was sort of a knee-jerk reaction.

But it does point-out the need to have multiple independent forums for discussing playing cards.

Designers may fail on their first attempt in KS, yet try again and be successful. What's the likelihood that she'll come back to UC to discuss her next project when the discussion of her first deck gets locked?

/bama

I don't know - depends on the person, really.

I can't see how a public discussion of the deck is a DMCA violation - it's like saying a newspaper report about the deck also violates the DMCA, and there's no way the law reaches that far into free speech territory.  As newspapers move to the digital world and leave the print world behind, the rights extended to them in the print world don't suddenly stop at the modem connecting them to the Internet.  That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!  (Then again, I've never been issued a DMCA for anything and I'm not the board's owner, so...)

And no, I'm not a lawyer, and I've never played one on TV...

[bamabenz]

Latest (last?) update from the Project:

Apr 28 2014
Cease and Desisted!

Hello everybody!

We have just received a cease and desist request from the big man, Director of Business and Legal Affairs at MRC II Distribution Company L.P. Elizabeth A. Miller who respectfully asked us to remove any copyrighted material.

We have complied by taking down the project.

This is disappointing for us as, after extensive research, we were sure that this project -- given that it did not overlap with any official merchandising and was on a very small scale -- fell under fair use law and the Visual Artists Rights Act. We still believe that it does, but have no interest in arguing about it. After attempts to contact Netflix et al. and Kickstarter's approval of the project, we were sure that there was no trouble (especially given that there are many fan art projects on Kickstarter). But we were wrong and we apologize for any disappointment y'all may feel!

Be aware that all of the money pledged returns to backers, don't worry.

Also, we'd ask you to take this as an opportunity to ask Netflix to put out some official merchandise (especially a deck of cards) for House of Cards. We'd love to see it on the market, and love to have a deck of our own!

Thanks for your support, and sorry for the disappointing end to this project!

-No Reply Team

[Rob Wright]

Lucky for them this happened before the project closed, and backers credit cards were charged. That letter may have saved this guy thousands.

[Mike Ratledge]

Don, Jackson asked us to kill it, but last comment - there were pictures that clearly violated his rights.

[bamabenz]

Don, Jackson asked us to kill it, but last comment - there were pictures that clearly violated his rights.

Mike,
You got the wrong topic.
/bama

[Don Boyer]

Actually, if they were indeed asked to remove the infringing images, they technically haven't complied with the DMCA notice!  They didn't remove a single image as far as I can see.

[Mike Ratledge]

...and can't. Kickstarter locks the project for historical purposes just like it does when any project "over".

[Don Boyer]

...and can't. Kickstarter locks the project for historical purposes just like it does when any project "over".

I know that, but before closing the project, they could have edited it to remove the infringing images.  It's not impossible that KS will receive a similar letter telling them to take the project our of their search results, rendering it effectively invisible - they'd done that many times before when forced to close a project.  They have made projects disappear as if they weren't even there - just look for the Lego-based "Steampunk Heroes" deck project.  We have an article for it here, with links to the project, but the project is gone without a trace, last time I looked, 'cause Lego is very fond of their copyrights and trademarks.  The creator was using hobbyist-altered Lego minifigs for all the characters in his deck.

http://www.playingcardforum.com/playing-card-plethora/steampunk-heroes-deck-now-in-legal-limbo/?all

[Mike Ratledge]

Being Danish in roots, I have been to the Lego Museum. They are rather fond of them...  Legoland.dk  for anyone interested. Billund is a small town that used their influence to create a big draw there.

Perhaps a defensive move on their part will come today? They just closed it within the past 24 hours. I would not be surprised if it does evaporate.  Godt for dem! (dansk 101 isn't that hard)

I predict a quick death for the "Breaking Bad" project, now that we have the legal beagles attention.

[Don Boyer]

I found the old page - it's a bit different these days...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/406037970/steampunk-heroes-lego-inspired-bicycle-playing-car

"Sorry, this project is no longer available."  That's it, nothing else.

Using the terms "X-inspired" or "inspired by X" doesn't generally hold up as an adequate legal defense in an infringement case...

You can get away with something like this under very limited circumstances.  Look at "Cards of Legend", based on the Legend of Zelda videogame series from Nintendo.  They used likenesses that weren't perfect likenesses, they used logos from the game that were generic enough that prior art could apply, and nowhere did they make mention of any character names, the title of the videogame, name of the game manufacturer, etc.  No "Inspired by" jack squat.  It provided enough "reasonable doubt" territory that they could squeak it by without getting legally hassled.  Either that or Nintendo let it slide so as to not annoy the fanboys and fangirls.

http://www.fangamer.net/products/cards-of-legend

I feel bad about taking the thread into such a tangent, but then I remember is that this deck is presently dead in the water and unlikely to rise to the surface again...