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Tuck case prototype?

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Tuck case prototype?
« on: April 28, 2014, 02:02:15 AM »
 

rjtomlinson1977

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I've never got involved with embossing and hot foil stamping yet of tuck cases but would like to. Does anyone know where you can get prototype tuck cases with these effects done?
 

Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2014, 02:17:53 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I've never got involved with embossing and hot foil stamping yet of tuck cases but would like to. Does anyone know where you can get prototype tuck cases with these effects done?

I'm not sure.  Based on what you're saying, it sounds like you have a print facility - is this correct?

I'd wager that any of the known card manufacturers could do that for you, but as a one-off of your own design, it could cost a small fortune, particularly if you had USPC make it.  If you wanted to see other deck designs, such as whatever they had lying around, though, you might be able to get some of those at a reasonable cost as samples of what they can make - it would largely depend on the company you ask and what their S.O.P. is regarding such requests.

Have you tried asking Bill Kalush?  He does run his own deck-making company these days...  :))

Why would you need a prototype as opposed to simply an example from a print run?  There's a LOT of decks out there with those features that can be had for a reasonable price.
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Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2014, 02:28:27 AM »
 

rjtomlinson1977

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I'm looking for a prototype because I want to make sure I am capable of doing what I want. Plus I want to show what it will look like on KS project. Having never done those effects I'm a little unsure of myself.
 

Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2014, 05:54:10 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'm looking for a prototype because I want to make sure I am capable of doing what I want. Plus I want to show what it will look like on KS project. Having never done those effects I'm a little unsure of myself.

Well, the thing of it is that different printing companies don't always use the same template for their tuck boxes - getting just any old prototype might not be what you're looking for.

Is it that you're looking for an uncut tuck box sheet?  They're only recently become collectibles because they've only recently been offered.  The reason is that they're often done in a "mix" of different projects.  For example, USPC has an uncut sheet that holds five uncut tuck boxes on it.  Typically, each tuck box will be for a different project, often for different clients.  The rare occasions I've seen them, it's been because a single company places quite a large order - for example, I think the first uncut sheet of tuck boxes made available was for the NOC deck by the Blue Crown.  It was a perfect choice, because the NOC deck came in five different colors, each considered a separate print run by USPC - they were able to combine the five boxes into a single sheet.  It rarely happens that way unless the creator either pays extra for the privilege or places a massive order with at least five different tuck designs.

Attached are some of the images of the NOC uncut box sheet - they've been sold out for a while now but the images are still on the website.  The new version three NOC deck will be quite different in that they're using side-loading tucks printed by Expert PCC rather than USPC, and Expert uses a different template.

Is this what you're looking to get when you say you want a prototype?  What company's prototype were you interested in?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 05:55:30 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2014, 08:00:10 AM »
 

rjtomlinson1977

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Yes, that's similar to what I was thinking about. One of the decks I have in the pipeline is a Titanic deck. I have two designs I'm thinking about for a tuck case and haven't decided which direction I should go. The first design option is doing something really ornate using embossing/foiling to give it a luxury feel as if it came off the Titanic. The other design option would use two separate tuck cases each showing a porthole of the Titanic. With the first tuck looking like a brand new ship and the second tuck morphing into what the Titanic looks like now (102 years under the ocean). The glass in the first tuck would be reflecting an iceberg while the glass in the second tuck would be cracked and you would see a broken off piece of the Titanic in the distance. If possible I would try to give the iceberg and the broken off ship the appearance of a spade (abstract).
The reason I want a prototype is because I'm not to confident in doing embossing/foiling because it's new to me. I would hate to screw it up. I would feel more confident  pulling off the two porthole tuck design.
 

Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2014, 08:16:23 AM »
 

rjtomlinson1977

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I forgot to mention... for the Titanic deck I haven't decided upon a printer yet. So, I'm open to EPCC or USPCC. For my Colonial Unrest deck I'm going with USPCC.
 

Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2014, 11:50:54 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I forgot to mention... for the Titanic deck I haven't decided upon a printer yet. So, I'm open to EPCC or USPCC. For my Colonial Unrest deck I'm going with USPCC.

Ask printers about what they'd charge.  Honestly, I don't think it would be cheap to just print a prototype tuck box without printing the deck as well.  Find a company that handles VERY small print runs for your initial test - MakePlayingCards (MPC) would be a possibility.  Don't bother with Zazzle - they don't even use tucks, putting their decks in plastic cases.  You could also try Brahma Playing Cards, but I'm not sure what they're up to these days - haven't heard from them in many months.
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Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2014, 12:57:59 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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I thought this was some good behind the scenes process that Jackson posted during the Sherlock Holmes project. I think this is the idea you were talking about. Keep in mind, as Jackson has pointed out. You are not going to get this with an $8,000 print run from USPCC. You start adding features like this and that cost is going to jump quickly. With all the add-ons he did, around $16,000 from my understanding.
I would suggest drawing up the files, and send them to the printer. See what they say about if they can do it, and cost.
Check out encarded's Bicycle Deco. It's another great example of embossing/ foil on the tucks.


Hound of the Baskervilles Outside Tuck Case Color


Hound Edition Outside Tuck Embossing Layout


Hound Edition Outside Tuck Red Foil Layout


Hound Edition Inside Tuck Red & Black Foil Layouts


and the finished product



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Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2014, 12:43:56 AM »
 

rjtomlinson1977

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Rob... thanks for posting. I can kind of get an idea of what's involved with the process. I'll have to check with my rep at USPCC to check on the prices for the upgraded tuck quality. I'm always looking to improve the quality of the cards I produce. In a way, I'm a lot like Walt Disney... he produced what he wanted without thinking about costs.
 

Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2014, 12:54:15 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Rob... thanks for posting. I can kind of get an idea of what's involved with the process. I'll have to check with my rep at USPCC to check on the prices for the upgraded tuck quality. I'm always looking to improve the quality of the cards I produce. In a way, I'm a lot like Walt Disney... he produced what he wanted without thinking about costs.

Well, I wouldn't recommend the "Disney method" of getting things done unless you also have the Disney fortune...
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Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2014, 04:34:42 AM »
 

rjtomlinson1977

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So far the Disney method has paid off. In 1923 Disney went to Hollywood with a cardboard suitcase and $20 in his pocket. Every success he had he rolled the profits into making the next success even better. His brother Roy handled the money of course... but Walt was the creative lead. While most would have been happy with the success he had with Oswald the Rabbit.. Walt kept gambling everything he had to make the next project better.
While I may use a little more caution then Walt, I do feel the same way aobut making the next project all the better. Always working towards a perfection that isn't defined.
 

Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2014, 06:45:11 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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So far the Disney method has paid off. In 1923 Disney went to Hollywood with a cardboard suitcase and $20 in his pocket. Every success he had he rolled the profits into making the next success even better. His brother Roy handled the money of course... but Walt was the creative lead. While most would have been happy with the success he had with Oswald the Rabbit.. Walt kept gambling everything he had to make the next project better.
While I may use a little more caution then Walt, I do feel the same way aobut making the next project all the better. Always working towards a perfection that isn't defined.

There's been a lot of people who put the end result before the dollar signs.  They line the halls of history's failures.  Disney was an exception, not the rule.
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Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2014, 08:44:59 AM »
 

rjtomlinson1977

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True... Disney was the exception. He had Roy to help keep him grounded. Luckily I have a wife that does the same for me. Otherwise I would be one of the people that would get over my head with costs. I try to push the envelope as much as I can however.
 

Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2014, 10:42:56 AM »
 

Lukeout

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I use Henson as my guide post. If you don't push yourself, you don't get better. When it comes to cost, I've always felt that people will pay for things of quality, but there is also a real beauty in making "the best thing at a certain price point" (if that's your goal).
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Re: Tuck case prototype?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2014, 12:14:16 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I use Henson as my guide post. If you don't push yourself, you don't get better. When it comes to cost, I've always felt that people will pay for things of quality, but there is also a real beauty in making "the best thing at a certain price point" (if that's your goal).

I'd take that a step further and say that being forced to work within certain boundaries will force an artist to become more creative.  I've heard of strange exercises where an author will write an entire story, sometimes even a novel, by starting every word with a particular (common!) letter, or by excluding a letter from any word he writes.  People have done so well at it that some of these works have been published.

It's not much different from, for example, forcing an artist to work within a budgetary restriction or to create a great piece of artwork that fits on the outside of a tuck box when it's folded and glued.

I'd even wager that Jim Henson had to work within similar restrictions when he created the Muppets - the name is a portmanteau of "marionette" and "puppet".  He created them in the early 1970s for a new children's show on public television called "Sesame Street".  I remember from that era that public funding for anything was hard to come by, so their budgets must have been miniscule - the main set of the street got used a LOT, and many if not most of the rest of the scenes were played against a blank background wall with a shorter wall nearby that the Muppets often sat on, in order to hide their Muppeteers.  In dreaming up a way to portray the "creature" characters, they wanted to find a solution that could give them the physical control and speed of movement that a hand puppet had, while at the same time developing some means by which to move their limbs, just as a marionette does, in ways that a normal puppet simply couldn't replicate.

Anything that even resembled a special effects budget was out of the question - most movie and TV studios had ditched whatever special effects departments they had back in the 1960s.  So they had to come up with something that was not simply effective, but also cheap.  So they stitched together some hand puppets with rigid, jointed limbs, attached nigh-invisibly thin, straight poles to the wrists and devised a way to control the mouth and face with one hand and the limb movements with the other.  It actually borrows from Asian traditional shadow puppets, but allows for much better visual impact with the use of color and movement in three dimensions.

My point being, there must have been countless little restrictions and obstacles that they needed to overcome in order to make the Muppets work as believable characters, but they found a way and made an entertainment empire out of it...which is now just another branch of the Disney Company!  But on a serious note, consider this - would Henson have been so inspired, had he the budget to use something different, like animation, animatronics or some other blow-the-budget kind of solution?  Would the Muppets even exist today were it not for the budgetary and other restrictions he had to work with on Sesame Street?

Wow, uh, sorry about the wicked-long tangent...
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