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DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck

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DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« on: May 25, 2014, 03:36:37 PM »
 

markallender

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I am currently working on a deck that is a relaunch of a test-run of another deck I recently made called Futura Black. Printed with a low-cost company, the Futura Black deck was limited to less than sixty decks. After the successful test-run, and with some tweaks to the design, I have decided to print this deck with USPCC as "INTERFERENCE." I am looking at starting a Kickstarter campaign in mid-July, but at the moment, I am looking for comments on the design.

The four pips have been customized to the design contours of the Futura Black typeface. The custom faces have been made from the ground up.

Let me know what you think!
Thanks!

Mark
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 04:15:18 PM by markallender »
 

Re: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2014, 12:36:31 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Hello, Mark,

First of all, consider instead of making the deck with USPC, why not enter it in our design contest sponsored by Expert Playing Card Company?  The winner has his or her deck printed by EPCC at no charge and receives 36 dozen (3 gross) decks.  The prize decks alone are more than seven times your original Futura Black print run.  Use the links in my signature, below, to read more about it.

Now, the below comments are critiques of specific aspects of the deck design.  They aren't personal attacks, and I'm not trying to tear down your design and say it sucks or whatever.  It's my personal observations and advice - as the designer, you can take it or leave it as you see fit and I won't be the least bit offended if you pass on everything I say.  When criticizing a design, people here do so from their love of playing cards and not out of a personal agenda.

You're calling the deck "Interference" - presumably based on the concept of broadcast interference when using a television to tune in a channel using an antenna.  But that kind of interference is horizontal rather than vertical.  And are you going for an old-school "snow" effect, or the more modern "frozen and missing pixels" effect of a digital broadcast with a weak signal?

From a practical standpoint, putting your suits next to your values in the indices rather than beneath them is not a good idea - it forces a player holding a hand of cards to spread the cards wider, increasing the chances of an opponent getting a peek, either accidentally or intentionally.

It's an even worse idea to use alternating red and black faces printed into the bleed.  With the cards held in a stack, it's usually possible to spot red and black cards from the edge of the stack if they're printed like this.  Either choose one color for all of the faces or give them some kind of a uniform border to prevent this.

Where's the back design?  Many collectors will buy a deck or not based on its back design.  Will it also be printed into the bleed or will it have a border?  Whichever uniform "edge" you choose for the faces, you should choose a matching one for the backs.  Magicians prefer a design that matches from front to back like that because you can hide a flipped card in the middle of the deck, a key element of certain magic tricks - if there's a great enough mismatch, the flipped card becomes visible.

You're using the "Futura Black" typeface, very similar to the "Army Black" font from the default font selection in Microsoft Word.  Why the choice of a common typeface such as this for the indices?  I know you created your pips based on the typeface, but how does it all tie into the design concept of "interference"?  Have you considered the creation of a unique typeface, or perhaps an artfully-altered version of Futura Black?  If someone choose a common typeface like this, it can give the impression that they didn't put enough thought and talent into the design, much like a typist using Times New Roman or Helvetica on a letter because it was the word processor's default font rather than choosing a style to match, contrast or complement the firm's stationery.

I think you're trying to make a deck that's both minimal and more complex at the same time by using the simple face design and smothering it under what appears to be something like static on a video screen.  The two concepts appear to be at war with each other, almost like the riot of flavors one would experience when trying to combine a peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwich on white bread with one made with corned beef, sauerkraut and deli mustard on rye.  You may wish to consider either going with the simple and minimal or the complex rather than both at once.

Bear in mind - the "rules" above are guidelines based on observation of practical playing card designs over the years.  As with any design rule, an artist/designer can feel free to break them - but generally they should be broken only if it serves a specific purpose in the design rather than for no special reason other than not knowing the "rule" existed.  And you don't want to break too many "rules" at once.

There are decks that serve specific artistic visions that break many of these rules - they're not the easiest decks to play or perform with, but they possess a degree of artistry that people find appealing, and thus these decks find their own audience.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 12:38:53 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2014, 01:35:59 AM »
 

markallender

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Cool man. Good stuff. I'll answer just a few of your points directly -

First - the back design is the third image in line on the block marked "jokers." I thought I had called it out in my post, but I guess I left that part out. Sorry about that! It IS a true 2-up back, though obviously far from the traditional concept of a 2-up.

Second, not to write off the magicians, but I really envisioned this design as purely artistic, and not as something that magicians would enjoy using. So if the magician group likes to use it - great, but for this project, form trumps function.

Third, RE: different colors that bleed to the edge. I struggled mightily with that back when I did the original Futura Black deck. I'll go back and struggle some more and see if I come back with a different result, but I appreciate the insight...

Finally, any problem with entering the contest AND doing it on Kickstarter? Just curious.

Thanks again!
 

Re: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2014, 01:44:44 AM »
 

markallender

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Also - here are the tuck box images...
 

Re: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2014, 02:53:39 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Cool man. Good stuff. I'll answer just a few of your points directly -

First - the back design is the third image in line on the block marked "jokers." I thought I had called it out in my post, but I guess I left that part out. Sorry about that! It IS a true 2-up back, though obviously far from the traditional concept of a 2-up.

Second, not to write off the magicians, but I really envisioned this design as purely artistic, and not as something that magicians would enjoy using. So if the magician group likes to use it - great, but for this project, form trumps function.

Third, RE: different colors that bleed to the edge. I struggled mightily with that back when I did the original Futura Black deck. I'll go back and struggle some more and see if I come back with a different result, but I appreciate the insight...

Finally, any problem with entering the contest AND doing it on Kickstarter? Just curious.

Thanks again!

Nothing stops you from entering the contest, then entering the deck on Kickstarter if you don't win.  However if you do win, the print rights would temporarily go to the printer, Expert Playing Card Company, so having a Kickstarter in play at the time could be a problem unless you canceled it, which would likely upset your backers.  Assuming you were to win, if there's anything that hinders EPCC from printing the deck, they would have the right to declare your entry void and choose another winner.  So it would become a matter of which path you felt was the better way to present your deck and get it printed.

If you opt to enter, please read the rules and make the appropriate change to the topic title (you do that by editing the first post, the one you used to create the topic).  There's four to five weeks remaining before the voting stage of the contest begins, at which time entries will no longer be accepted.  The voting will take place with the entire membership of the forum, minus the administrators - keep your topic fresh and current in order to attract the attention of the maximum number of potential voters as possible.
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Re: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2014, 03:23:43 PM »
 

markallender

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Okay - here's a 9 of spades next to two prospective 9's of hearts. Thoughts? Opinions? Keep trying?
 

Re: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2014, 09:25:30 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Okay - here's a 9 of spades next to two prospective 9's of hearts. Thoughts? Opinions? Keep trying?

How about you try using the black background for the hearts/diamonds but make the pips/values in a red color bright enough to stand out against the black background?  It would give you a uniform background for all of the cards and two pip colors.
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Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2014, 09:38:45 PM »
 

markallender

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Yeah - I thought of that back when I did the original. That concept has been done a few times (Bicycle Black Rider, Black Tiger, etc), which makes me little reluctant to do that. 
I'll keep at it...
Thanks!
 

Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2014, 01:03:03 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Yeah - I thought of that back when I did the original. That concept has been done a few times (Bicycle Black Rider, Black Tiger, etc), which makes me little reluctant to do that. 
I'll keep at it...
Thanks!

There's a reason it's been done before - it works.  It's why we have indices, it's why indices are the sizes that they are, etc.  You could go and reinvent the wheel, but to have one that works, you're still going to end up with something that's generally round in shape, just like the original...  One could just as easily use the same logic you applied to argue against using International standard indices, pips or values - it's been done before, right?  Why can't you make your cards with letters instead of numbers, symbols instead of letters and numbers instead of pips?  That's never been done before!  But we use this standard because they're generally accepted in most of the modern and semi-modern world and there's hundreds if not thousands of games that have been created with that general design in mind - or, in short, we use all that stuff because it works and it's far from broken.

Using colored backgrounds makes your deck "marked" for color because of edge visibility.  Using one color for all the pips (in this case, white) limits the popularity of the deck - it becomes less practical for many playing card applications.  I own a few one-color decks in my collection - they rarely come out to get used except for some magic tricks, and usually I'm more inclined to use something closer to a standard deck for magic unless there's a specific reason I can do otherwise for a given audience.
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Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2014, 03:08:52 AM »
 

markallender

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Yes, I am aware that it works, but as an "artist with an interest in playing cards" (as opposed to a "playing card designer"), I am going after a certain aesthetic and I'd like to stick with it if at all possible.

My uncle owns a construction company and he had an interesting analogy. If someone needs to have a post in the middle of the home in order to support the structure of the building, they should design the rest of the room such that everyone else who ever comes to that room will want a post like that in the rooms of their houses.

For me, the vertical noise has a "post-apocalyptic wasteland" feel to it that I like and am trying to cultivate. The Futura Black typeface in many ways adds to that experience, especially when used in white on a dark background. Futura Black also has the added benefit of having wide verticals and almost no horizontals - which correspond nicely with my use of the vertical noise - I "interfere" with the indices and pips without losing readability.

Now, a problem remains: how to make "reds" and "blacks" distinct from one another. A border around the artwork completely kills that mood I am trying to create - so I need to find another solution. I may go with "red pips on the red cards" in the end, but I would like to see if there is a more elegant solution first. So that's that...
 

Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2014, 06:20:35 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Now, a problem remains: how to make "reds" and "blacks" distinct from one another. A border around the artwork completely kills that mood I am trying to create - so I need to find another solution. I may go with "red pips on the red cards" in the end, but I would like to see if there is a more elegant solution first. So that's that...

One possible method would be to color a single element on the red cards red, like the pips in the indices - this was done with the Bicycle Ghost, Bicycle Black Ghost, Bicycle Gargoyles and Artifice Tundra decks.

Another possible method would be to take some or all of the elements on the red cards and simply give them a red outline, retaining the white in the center.  It's probably been done by other decks in the past, but I can't recall which ones, myself.  Maybe some of the De'vo Blades decks?

Of course, you could also simply ignore color altogether and make all the pips and values white.  A completely monochrome color scheme has been used before, but it's usually black on a white background.  Using a black background with white symbols was used for the all-white version of the Bicycle Black Tiger (now out of print) and using silver on a black background was used for the all-silver version (with the Original Fan Back) of the Tally Ho Vipers (this version was kept while the red-&-silver Original Circle Backs were taken out of print).

I do understand you're attempting to achieve a certain aesthetic - but do keep in mind the audience which will be voting on which deck gets the prize of being printed.  If they don't appreciate the aesthetic as much as you do, your chances become diminished.  It reminds me of a Kickstarter project that recently went through where someone was making a deck that bore a striking resemblance to a Dan-and-Dave knockoff, while the creator was trying to explain how it wasn't a knockoff and that the symbolism used on the back design was some kind of homage to his daughter that only the two of them knew the meaning of and which he refused to adequately explain beyond that.  He didn't get a lot of backers and his project failed, receiving only 26% of the pledged money needed.  Simply put, if the audience doesn't get it, they're not very likely to buy it, either - or in this case, vote for it.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 06:24:53 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2014, 09:25:42 AM »
 

markallender

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Found it.
 

Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2014, 01:29:19 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Found it.

For greatest effectiveness, I suggest you make sure that each index has at least a portion of the gray or red pattern around it
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Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2014, 02:39:16 AM »
 

markallender

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Yup! Way ahead of you!
Thanks!
m
 

Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2015, 12:56:06 PM »
 

ICollectPlayingCards

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Hi Mark. I've literally just discovered this deck and I'm amazed it wasn't funded. Have you any plans to re-launch it any time soon?

Jyl
 

Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2015, 05:16:29 PM »
 

markallender

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Hello! YES I do plan to relaunch that deck later this year - prob not on USPCC, but on MPC so I can do a shorter run.  I do have a (flailing) campaign going on Kickstarter right now called "Farbschemata" - http://bit.ly/FarbCards - another "art deck."  I'll be sure to post here when "Interference" launches again.

thanks for the kind words!

Mark
 

Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2015, 07:21:12 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Hello! YES I do plan to relaunch that deck later this year - prob not on USPCC, but on MPC so I can do a shorter run.  I do have a (flailing) campaign going on Kickstarter right now called "Farbschemata" - http://bit.ly/FarbCards - another "art deck."  I'll be sure to post here when "Interference" launches again.

thanks for the kind words!

Mark

I've been observing the Farbschemata deck - it's got a good overall look to it but a few critical design flaws that make it harder to use, thus less popular with buyers.  You should get in touch with me - I consult with designers about their decks as a side business and my rates are low.
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Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2015, 08:05:54 PM »
 

markallender

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Hi Don - can't pay anything as I am unemployed at the moment, but i'm interested in your thoughts if you feel like trading for a copy of my amazing gumbo recipe...

 

Re: DDDC: INTERFERENCE deck
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2015, 10:29:11 PM »
 

AdamF

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Mark, Good luck with the relaunch of Interference.  Take a look at the Glitch deck; she did something similar to what I believe you're going for:

http://www.amazon.com/GLITCH-Playing-Cards/dp/B00OSGQNX0