LEGENDS PLAYING CARD COMPANY - Official Topic

[Fess]

Legends site has NOC v4 for sale as well as a Draconian double set.

ZOMG NOC V4!!!!!! 

Gonna get me some of that.

[Rob Wright]

Legends site has NOC v4 for sale as well as a Draconian double set.

ZOMG NOC V4!!!!!! 

Gonna get me some of that.

Evidently there was a big WTF between HOPC & LPCC today. 

UPDATE! We will have more available soon! Due to a mis-communication, we originally mis-labelled these as NOC v.4. Our apologies. These decks are a special edition reprint of NOC v.3 exclusively for LPCC and EPCC.



This is a special Limited Edition reprint of NOC V.3, only 1,000 decks per color, only for LPCC and our close friends at EPCC.

NOC was printed by our friends at ExpertPCC on Master Finish card stock (the same as our Diamond Finish). Thin, snappy, and long lasting imported casino grade black core paper.

You can easily recognise this version because of the Expert PCC seal, and the special tuck case paper made from actual card stock. The same material the playing cards are printed on, and coated with a special matte lamination, sealed with an ExpertPCC limited seal.

[HankMan]

The first deck that I got made by Legends PCC was Four Beasts by Alvin Cheung, and I found this very similar to Heretic Deck by Lorenzo Gaggiotti which is produced by EPCC.

In the past few months reading a few posts from the community in this forum, a lot talk about LPCC and EPCC (in a good way) and some even say that the deck made by LPCC and EPCC is superior than USPCC.

Today while I was bored, I did a little test. In the past I used to hate it when water get too close to my playing cards (made by USPCC) since they leave black mark on the edges. While I recently learn about the master finish and diamond finish orffered by EPCC  and LPCC respectively, I found that the cards feel a little like plastic coated.

So I thought maybe I should try placing 1 card produced by LPCC and 1 card produced by USPCC under running water for at least 5 seconds.
The results may not be surprising at all, since many of you already said EPCC and LPCC is superior to USPCC.
Here are some picture of the cards after exposed to running tap water for 5 seconds.
LPCC card is a clear winner on this test. I don't even see any water damage on the card produced by LPCC 
I am loving these cards now by both LPCC and EPCC super awesome...

[Don Boyer]

That right there is one of the more amazing things I've seen that clearly demonstrates the difference in the quality of the cards between LPCC and USPC.  The other was the rather popular photo showing a pack of Bikes next to a pack of Legends, with the Bikes' unfortunately ragged die cut and the nearly perfect cut on the Legends.

Can anyone else provide demonstrations of the superior quality of Legends cards over USPC?  How about a comparison of a deck from each maker, one year after serious use?

[HankMan]

That right there is one of the more amazing things I've seen that clearly demonstrates the difference in the quality of the cards between LPCC and USPC.  The other was the rather popular photo showing a pack of Bikes next to a pack of Legends, with the Bikes' unfortunately ragged die cut and the nearly perfect cut on the Legends.

Can anyone else provide demonstrations of the superior quality of Legends cards over USPC?  How about a comparison of a deck from each maker, one year after serious use?

Hm that gonna take me a long time.
But I am currently making a comparison between draconians and bicycle master (which is suppose to be 1 of the good deck from USPCC). I am using them on a daily basis to practice and store them at the same conditions. We will see how this go in the Next 4 weeks.

[RandyButterfield]

That right there is one of the more amazing things I've seen that clearly demonstrates the difference in the quality of the cards between LPCC and USPC.  The other was the rather popular photo showing a pack of Bikes next to a pack of Legends, with the Bikes' unfortunately ragged die cut and the nearly perfect cut on the Legends.

Can anyone else provide demonstrations of the superior quality of Legends cards over USPC?  How about a comparison of a deck from each maker, one year after serious use?

Hm that gonna take me a long time.
But I am currently making a comparison between draconians and bicycle master (which is suppose to be 1 of the good deck from USPCC). I am using them on a daily basis to practice and store them at the same conditions. We will see how this go in the Next 4 weeks.

Go Draconians!

[HankMan]

I had used both of them for about 2 weeks and draconians is holding better so far.

[HankMan]

Just a quick update Legends deck that I have been using for a while now.. Spitfire Draconian deck you see below has been used for about 6 months now and as you can see, it had some stains on the edges of the cards.

I remember Don mentioned something about cleaning Classic Twin Decks, so I decided to give it a try and the results is amazing.

The cards were cleaned with damp microfibre cleaning cloth, surprisingly the water didn't affect the edges at all. I can't imagine USPCC deck treated in the same way.

[Don Boyer]

Just a quick update Legends deck that I have been using for a while now.. Spitfire Draconian deck you see below has been used for about 6 months now and as you can see, it had some stains on the edges of the cards.

I remember Don mentioned something about cleaning Classic Twin Decks, so I decided to give it a try and the results is amazing.

The cards were cleaned with damp microfibre cleaning cloth, surprisingly the water didn't affect the edges at all. I can't imagine USPCC deck treated in the same way.

I didn't even use water!  Just used a paper towel.  Clean microfiber cloth would be a better choice, I think.

USPC decks are allergic to water, completely.

So - no BEFORE photos?  Drat...

[HankMan]

Just a quick update Legends deck that I have been using for a while now.. Spitfire Draconian deck you see below has been used for about 6 months now and as you can see, it had some stains on the edges of the cards.

I remember Don mentioned something about cleaning Classic Twin Decks, so I decided to give it a try and the results is amazing.

The cards were cleaned with damp microfibre cleaning cloth, surprisingly the water didn't affect the edges at all. I can't imagine USPCC deck treated in the same way.

I didn't even use water!  Just used a paper towel.  Clean microfiber cloth would be a better choice, I think.

USPC decks are allergic to water, completely.

So - no BEFORE photos?  Drat...

haha you kinda have to look closely to the first 2 photos.. the photos were over exposed to light when I took it, that is why it is not very clear. Zoom in a little and you can see it better.

I actually tried it on USPCC deck and the edges turned black.. I will upload the photo later tonight.

[Cardfool]

Hankman, thanks for the post!  Just out of curiosity, what is your practice routine and how much abuse do you put the cards through? 

[RandyButterfield]

Just a quick update Legends deck that I have been using for a while now.. Spitfire Draconian deck you see below has been used for about 6 months now and as you can see, it had some stains on the edges of the cards.

I remember Don mentioned something about cleaning Classic Twin Decks, so I decided to give it a try and the results is amazing.

The cards were cleaned with damp microfibre cleaning cloth, surprisingly the water didn't affect the edges at all. I can't imagine USPCC deck treated in the same way.

It's great to see the Draconians holding up through 6 months of use!!
I love Legends' Classic Finish. Every Deck I do with Legends will utilize their Classic Finish.

Thanks, Randy

[HankMan]

Hankman, thanks for the post!  Just out of curiosity, what is your practice routine and how much abuse do you put the cards through?

I used them every night for about 30 to 45 minutes till the deck started to feel clumpy, I then swap to other decks. I tend to do lots of dribble, riffle shuffle and faro (while practising sleight of hand like classic pass)

I don't think I abuse them a lot but for what I do, it handle better then bicycle.

[PrincessTrouble]

I'd like to get the full story on the Chivalry debacle and why LPCC can't/won't print them.

From the latest KS update:

August 2
Final artwork was delivered to LPCC

August 22
After final and close examination of the Chivalry artwork LPCC has come to the conclusion that their Emerald Finish production facilities must decline the task of manufacturing Chivalry. They claim to lack the technical experience and capabilites to handle all the special features. This comes as a surprise to us because all matters were debated during the Kickstarter funding.

August 23
We request an offer to have the decks made at their Diamond Finish facilities.

September 4
We ask for status of the offer (which is still being processed)

September 23
LPCC sends us a rough estimate on quotation which is out of reach for us financially AND put a delay of +4 months to the projects. Note here that it took LPCC 4 weeks just to come up with a rough and unformal quote.

September 26
We request a formal quotation and try to negotiate with LPCC

September 30
LPCC are unable to give a formal quote and reject negotiation.

Chivalry will not be printed by LPCC

[Don Boyer]

I'd like to get the full story on the Chivalry debacle and why LPCC can't/won't print them.

From the latest KS update:

August 2
Final artwork was delivered to LPCC

August 22
After final and close examination of the Chivalry artwork LPCC has come to the conclusion that their Emerald Finish production facilities must decline the task of manufacturing Chivalry. They claim to lack the technical experience and capabilites to handle all the special features. This comes as a surprise to us because all matters were debated during the Kickstarter funding.

August 23
We request an offer to have the decks made at their Diamond Finish facilities.

September 4
We ask for status of the offer (which is still being processed)

September 23
LPCC sends us a rough estimate on quotation which is out of reach for us financially AND put a delay of +4 months to the projects. Note here that it took LPCC 4 weeks just to come up with a rough and unformal quote.

September 26
We request a formal quotation and try to negotiate with LPCC

September 30
LPCC are unable to give a formal quote and reject negotiation.

Chivalry will not be printed by LPCC

This is unusual, for certain.  I do know that the "Emerald Finish" decks aren't made at the same facility as the one they share with Expert PCC.  "Diamond Finish," if I recall, is the same as what Expert calls "Expert Finish" and comes from the same plant in Taiwan.

I'm betting that there's a lot more to the situation that we haven't yet heard.  It seems odd that they'd suddenly drop the project cold like that, with such a delay and all the hemming and hawing.  There's something going on we don't yet know.

[Legends P.C.C.]

Hey guys! Other than running out of our now Legendary in-house sourced Classic Finish paper stock and waiting on a re-supply, everything is running as smoothy and efficiently as ever at LPCC. Running low on Classic card stock was a huge issue and we are deeply apologetic for the delays this has caused our customers. We are doing our best to make sure this won't happen again, and the Classic Finish card stock will always remain in, well, "stock'.

As for our printing process, we have a very strict policy when it comes to issuing a quotation for a deck project. If you are planning to launch a Kickstarter campaign, please be sure you receive an official quotation from us BEFORE your campaign starts. We would think this should be standard business practice in any industry. You need to know how much something costs before you decide to purchase, so you can budget, etc.

Extras like foil, embossing, specialty paper or seals are all very important to a deck project. We need to see all the artwork, know the final print specs, and work with you to decide how the deck and packing should be printed before we can issue you a quotation. Printing a Legendary deck of cards is an exacting process that requires many steps to be perfect. This is the entire foundation of Legends Playing Card Co., ultra-high quality playing cards designed for use by magicians and playing card lovers.

Thank you again for all the support on the forums, keep in touch with us at Legends PCC for more great decks coming soon. If you haven't seen the SOUNDBOARDS deck, you should really check it out, a marvel of packaging and one of the coolest retro-inspired decks in a long while!

[Don Boyer]

There you go, easily explained.  It sounds like the people running the project didn't properly organize it on their end.  They talked about features being "debated" during the Kickstarter project, but that doesn't sound like there's any firm quotes going on.  I've seen  lot of project launch without obtaining quotes beforehand - sometimes it works out, sure, but it's often a recipe for disaster.  Another question would be why the quote is so different from their perspective when all that changed with the project was the stock used and facility used - suddenly, it's out of their budget?  Is the stock that different in price?  And they're only discovering this two months AFTER the project closed?  I imagine it was a little complex, with stretch goal after stretch goal, but those are the kinds of things you plan for ahead of time, not after you're collecting pledges.  At the very least, if you're going to spring possible last minute stretch goals to keep the project rolling, you still need to plan them well ahead of announcing and releasing them.  Flying by the seat of the pants when it comes to the financial planning of a campaign is a really bad idea.

I'm about to launch a project in the near future, started prepping the KS project page for it and so forth - I haven't even started promotions yet, not until I have a firm quote from the printer!  I won't lift a finger on the public side of the project without solid numbers in place first.

Thanks for letting us know what was going on!

[HankMan]

There you go, easily explained.  It sounds like the people running the project didn't properly organize it on their end.  They talked about features being "debated" during the Kickstarter project, but that doesn't sound like there's any firm quotes going on.  I've seen  lot of project launch without obtaining quotes beforehand - sometimes it works out, sure, but it's often a recipe for disaster.  Another question would be why the quote is so different from their perspective when all that changed with the project was the stock used and facility used - suddenly, it's out of their budget?  Is the stock that different in price?  And they're only discovering this two months AFTER the project closed?  I imagine it was a little complex, with stretch goal after stretch goal, but those are the kinds of things you plan for ahead of time, not after you're collecting pledges.  At the very least, if you're going to spring possible last minute stretch goals to keep the project rolling, you still need to plan them well ahead of announcing and releasing them.  Flying by the seat of the pants when it comes to the financial planning of a campaign is a really bad idea.

I'm about to launch a project in the near future, started prepping the KS project page for it and so forth - I haven't even started promotions yet, not until I have a firm quote from the printer!  I won't lift a finger on the public side of the project without solid numbers in place first.

Thanks for letting us know what was going on!

I had a feeling something like this happen with the Chivalry project. It really didn't sound right that Legends PCC rejected a project after the campaign had finished. I actually assumed that the creator had only submitted draft artwork without the add ons...

I feel sorry for the rest of the backers now, since the deck is going to be printed by NPCC.
Luckily for some reason I backed out of this project...

[Don Boyer]

There you go, easily explained.  It sounds like the people running the project didn't properly organize it on their end.  They talked about features being "debated" during the Kickstarter project, but that doesn't sound like there's any firm quotes going on.  I've seen  lot of project launch without obtaining quotes beforehand - sometimes it works out, sure, but it's often a recipe for disaster.  Another question would be why the quote is so different from their perspective when all that changed with the project was the stock used and facility used - suddenly, it's out of their budget?  Is the stock that different in price?  And they're only discovering this two months AFTER the project closed?  I imagine it was a little complex, with stretch goal after stretch goal, but those are the kinds of things you plan for ahead of time, not after you're collecting pledges.  At the very least, if you're going to spring possible last minute stretch goals to keep the project rolling, you still need to plan them well ahead of announcing and releasing them.  Flying by the seat of the pants when it comes to the financial planning of a campaign is a really bad idea.

I'm about to launch a project in the near future, started prepping the KS project page for it and so forth - I haven't even started promotions yet, not until I have a firm quote from the printer!  I won't lift a finger on the public side of the project without solid numbers in place first.

Thanks for letting us know what was going on!

I had a feeling something like this happen with the Chivalry project. It really didn't sound right that Legends PCC rejected a project after the campaign had finished. I actually assumed that the creator had only submitted draft artwork without the add ons...

I feel sorry for the rest of the backers now, since the deck is going to be printed by NPCC.
Luckily for some reason I backed out of this project...

We should move this discussion to the topic for the deck.  NPCC??  My oh my...  Bad alternative, as I see it.  If I had backed this, I'd be pissed.

[Cardfool]

Actually, Nicolai is offering a full refund to any backer that is not happy with the result of having to change printers, which I think is the right thing to do.

[Don Boyer]

Actually, Nicolai is offering a full refund to any backer that is not happy with the result of having to change printers, which I think is the right thing to do.

I had no way of knowing - the last update was for backers only, and I'm not one of 'em.

[PrincessTrouble]

Thanks for the info, Legends.  I didn't think the picture being painted was the whole story.  You'd think a project creator would have his or her ducks in a row before launching, especially after having a successful project under his belt.

[JackofDiamonds]

I went through this thread and over the internet, and I can't figure out what distinguishes the Elite finish (Luxx) from Diamond or Classic, aside from the embossing (which I adore).

[HankMan]

isn't LUXX deck uses Diamond finish?

[HolyJJ]

Hank, the first and second edition LUXX decks use the Diamond Finish, where as the LUXX Palme decks use Elite Finish.

Whilst Diamond finish is completely different, the Elite Finish uses the Classic Finish paper, but with a different embossing pattern. It does handle differently, and in my experience, Elite Finish decks lasts longer the Classic Finish.

Although it sounds like a very very slight difference to Classic Finish, the embossing pattern is easy to notice even visually!