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The Playing Card Collectors' "Bubble"

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Re: The Playing Card Collectors'
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2014, 10:31:58 AM »
 

JacksonRobinson

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The Card Collecting "bubble" only applies to Card Collectors. 6 out of 10 people who purchase my decks are NON card collectors.

Do you have actual stats on this or is that just a gut feel on your part?  I would assume that there are really 3 kinds of card buyers: collectors, magicians/cardists and general public (use for gifts or common play use).  I would think that people who buy a deck for gifts or play would be more price sensitive and have less of a need to buy multiple quantities or multiple decks.  They would have sheer numbers on their side though, so with a continuous stream of varied themes you could tap that market for quite a while, you would just not have as many repeat customers as the other groups.  Another problem with general public is it's likely your per customer acquisition cost will be huge because you have to keep finding new buyers that just really like the theme of the day or haven't seen seen a custom deck before.  Especially when for play use that's a heavy premium for novelty when a basic deck is 1/5 the cost or less.

Just curious on if you are to a point you have such data or that stat was just a guesstimate.  If you do, it will be interesting to see how KWF sales breakdown compares to Kickstarter.  I would be willing to bet that Kickstarter would be closer to your 6/10 non card collectors due to them stumbling onto decks browsing, but KWF will be more like 1/10, especially long term.

Either way, as an auto buff that other hobby is FAR more expensive and is a big reason I'm usually a single deck collector.  My personal limit is around $10 shipped for a non custom court deck and about $15 shipped for a custom one.  There have been a few exceptions, including for uncuts, but those are really a different animal anyhow.

As for the bubble, I feel it's close as well.  Only the strong will survive if they are prepared to adjust to market demands.  I believe and hope that will include yourself and the other quality artists and companies.  Just don't forget us little insignificant collector demographic.   >:(  ;)

My numbers are not gut feelings at all. I have done very specific research on who buys my decks weather on Kickstarter or off.

Here is how my customers break down:

60-70% of my buyers are NON card collectors. These are people who have never bought a deck of cards besides the everyday bike at walmart to play with at Christmas time with family. These customers are also not jaded about the price per deck because they don't buy every single deck that comes out. They compare purchasing one of my decks with anything else they purchase as a gift for them selves or others. To a card collector $30-$40 is astronomical but to a non card collector that can be captivated by both the story of a deck and the art has no trouble paying $30-$40 for a deck as they see its worth in relation to other things they buy no in relation to other decks of cards. These costumers also don't buy bricks they buy 3-4 decks tops. I actually loose money on the big buyers just because my cost of production is so high.

25-30% of my buyers are card collectors. I don't need to explain the demographics of card collectors and their spending habits. Magicians don't really even register on my radar. Its not that I don't like magicians it's just my cards art are not at all functional for acts. My TallyHos maybe but that is yet to be seen.

Is there a bubble? ABSOLUTELY! But that bubble only applies to the card collecting world and subsequently that section of buyers. If you were to ask the banker who just bought Fed 52s for his staff what do you think about the Card Collecting Bubble? He would look at you as if you were from Mars. There will absolutely be a collapse in the Card bubble and it will come faster than most expect. The designers and companies that it will be effected most will be the ones who have all of the eggs in one basket.

It may sound selfish but my main focus is to capture non cardcollectors and turn them into Kings Wild Collectors. My focus is not to turn them into card collectors because if they fall into that group then they would be buying someone elses decks and not mine. You would be amazed at the frequency of return buyers who are Kings Wild Collectors over "card collectors"
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 10:33:18 AM by JacksonRobinson »
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Re: The Playing Card Collectors' "Bubble"
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2014, 02:02:16 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Just my 2 cents- maybe 3, on the subject as pertains to the Hive deck.

Penny #1 I've seen it posted many times here that it is cheaper to print with EPCC. I have yet to see any EPCC deck for sale for less than USPCC decks. Designers may save 20-30cent per deck on a basic custom deck. Over 2-3000 decks. That could be a pretty good savings for the designer, but it doesn't translate to retail. As a collector- there is no difference to me between a $10 deck, and an $11 deck.

Penny #2 Overkill on custom- Foil, embossing, inside tuck color/printing, ultra custom tucks. This can easily double or more the cost of producing the deck. This is OK sometimes, but it doesn't have to be on every single deck produced- someone please print just a simple deck of cards. This is not a jab at any one designer. There are 5 or 6 decks on KS now that have extra customization. I think Jackson's Tally Ho's are a good example of nice design on a basic deck. As a first time designer for Brendan, I think the Hive could have still been a great looking deck without some of this stuff, and in turn made the deck a little cheaper.

Penny #3 I don't begrudge anybody making money. Brendan mentioned he had to be paid for his time designing the deck. A lot of artist live on ramen noodles, and spaghetti for years trying to get their work discovered. A small sacrifice on this deck could have been made up with future projects. The high price tag of this deck could limit your initial exposure. Think of it more as investing in future gains.

At the end of the day, I think Brendan is going to be a very successful designer, and the Hive will sell out. This is all just a bunch of Monday morning Quarterbacking gibber jabber anyways.

I'll be in for 1 set. At $25-$30 it would have been 2 sets.

My last thought for any designer. If every deck you design is going to be over $16+ then people will get turned off, and stop buying. When people get turned off, they won't buy a $6 deck either. JMO

Penny #1.  That's not true, actually.  The version 3 NOC decks would have retailed for $5.95 each if the company stayed with USPC.  It's why they switched to EPCC - letting them keep their $4.95 price tag, allowing it to remain a leading "working magician's" deck as well as one that's popular with some collectors.

Penny #2. This will die down.  EPCC offers the kind of bells and whistles USPC has nightmares about and that make designers drool.  Think of it like '80s bands - synthesizers and electronic drums were all the rage because they'd finally become affordable to the typical musician.  In time, people did tire of the sameness of the sound and music and they moved from being the focus to being just another instrument.

Penny #3 I can actually agree with.  Super-limited editions keep your potential audience super-limited as well, in an age where diversity is going to be the key to survival.


And Don, the Hive compared to Lamborghini?  :-[ ;D That's honestly way too kind of you.

Don't look at me - it was Jackson who initially made the comparison.


Is there a bubble? ABSOLUTELY! But that bubble only applies to the card collecting world and subsequently that section of buyers. If you were to ask the banker who just bought Fed 52s for his staff what do you think about the Card Collecting Bubble? He would look at you as if you were from Mars. There will absolutely be a collapse in the Card bubble and it will come faster than most expect. The designers and companies that it will be effected most will be the ones who have all of the eggs in one basket.

It may sound selfish but my main focus is to capture non cardcollectors and turn them into Kings Wild Collectors. My focus is not to turn them into card collectors because if they fall into that group then they would be buying someone elses decks and not mine. You would be amazed at the frequency of return buyers who are Kings Wild Collectors over "card collectors"

It's true that the most diversified players in the card production game will be the best insulated against the problem a bursting bubble would create.  But we also have to remember some important issues that could leave you less insulated than you initially thought.

You mention a roughly 70/30 split, non-collectors to collectors.  But while collectors may only be about one customer in three, they're probably buying more like 1 out of every two decks or more.  Collectors tend to spend in disproportionate numbers compared to non-collectors.  And even non-collectors will eventually stop and take pause as a deck's price rises and rises.  We as collectors think they're awesome works of art.  Most other consumers may think it looks pretty cool but they, too, can be affected by price point, and super-limited short runs are far less likely to be on their list of must-buys, especially since they tend to sell out in a few hours.

For each non-collectors who bought your decks, there's probably a good number of non-customers wandering around Kickstarter who thought that paying so much for something they can get at WalMart for a buck or two a box is just crazy.  It's like me showing a stranger off the street a Kenner Star Wars original Jawa figure with the vinyl cape from 1978, mint in package.  Maybe one in ten or one in twenty (or depending on where I'm asking, one in a thousand) have any clue that this object, rather than being some cheap-ass action figure (which is what it originally was, when it was released) is worth several hundred bucks.  They wouldn't pay more than five bucks for it, if you offered to sell it to them.  Look at the Civil War decks you made for USPC - they're $4 a pack and sold faster than anything, and the company's going to make a new printing.  That same deck, made on KS, might cost $15 - same as your initial offering of the Fed52 decks.  That includes shipping, to be sure, but adding shipping to the $4 purchase still won't get you anywhere near $15, especially if you are buying more than one.

But getting back to the collectors.  You know better than anyone else that they buy a disproportionate amount of decks compared to non-collectors.  The motivation to buy is higher and they control more of the money in the custom deck marketplace.  If they suddenly started buying just a little less, you'd notice it.  If they bought a lot less, you'd feel it.  If they dropped out of the market almost entirely, you'd end up downsizing your business quite a bit.

You'd have to be so diverse, Jackson, you'd need to have practically no collectors on your customer list in order to survive that bubble's burst, particularly if it's in the same spectacular fashion as the comic book market, the sports memorabilia market, the real estate market, the tech market (twice), the stock market (thrice in my lifetime) and nearly any other market where inflated prices and financial pressure on the consumer combined to take tons of cash out of the market and put it anywhere else.  It would probably bounce back eventually, like those other markets, but with fewer people left standing and a lot of restructuring taking place on the part of those still-standing players.  But you sell decks of cards (or facilitate the sale of them through your other businesses), so sales to card collectors are part and parcel of your business.  Anything that affects their spending can have an impact on you in the process.
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Re: The Playing Card Collectors' "Bubble"
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2014, 09:34:59 PM »
 

DarkDerp

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It's true that the most diversified players in the card production game will be the best insulated against the problem a bursting bubble would create.  But we also have to remember some important issues that could leave you less insulated than you initially thought.

You mention a roughly 70/30 split, non-collectors to collectors.  But while collectors may only be about one customer in three, they're probably buying more like 1 out of every two decks or more.  Collectors tend to spend in disproportionate numbers compared to non-collectors.  And even non-collectors will eventually stop and take pause as a deck's price rises and rises.  We as collectors think they're awesome works of art.  Most other consumers may think it looks pretty cool but they, too, can be affected by price point, and super-limited short runs are far less likely to be on their list of must-buys, especially since they tend to sell out in a few hours.

For each non-collectors who bought your decks, there's probably a good number of non-customers wandering around Kickstarter who thought that paying so much for something they can get at WalMart for a buck or two a box is just crazy.  It's like me showing a stranger off the street a Kenner Star Wars original Jawa figure with the vinyl cape from 1978, mint in package.  Maybe one in ten or one in twenty (or depending on where I'm asking, one in a thousand) have any clue that this object, rather than being some cheap-ass action figure (which is what it originally was, when it was released) is worth several hundred bucks.  They wouldn't pay more than five bucks for it, if you offered to sell it to them.  Look at the Civil War decks you made for USPC - they're $4 a pack and sold faster than anything, and the company's going to make a new printing.  That same deck, made on KS, might cost $15 - same as your initial offering of the Fed52 decks.  That includes shipping, to be sure, but adding shipping to the $4 purchase still won't get you anywhere near $15, especially if you are buying more than one.

But getting back to the collectors.  You know better than anyone else that they buy a disproportionate amount of decks compared to non-collectors.  The motivation to buy is higher and they control more of the money in the custom deck marketplace.  If they suddenly started buying just a little less, you'd notice it.  If they bought a lot less, you'd feel it.  If they dropped out of the market almost entirely, you'd end up downsizing your business quite a bit.

You'd have to be so diverse, Jackson, you'd need to have practically no collectors on your customer list in order to survive that bubble's burst, particularly if it's in the same spectacular fashion as the comic book market, the sports memorabilia market, the real estate market, the tech market (twice), the stock market (thrice in my lifetime) and nearly any other market where inflated prices and financial pressure on the consumer combined to take tons of cash out of the market and put it anywhere else.  It would probably bounce back eventually, like those other markets, but with fewer people left standing and a lot of restructuring taking place on the part of those still-standing players.  But you sell decks of cards (or facilitate the sale of them through your other businesses), so sales to card collectors are part and parcel of your business.  Anything that affects their spending can have an impact on you in the process.
True, sort of.
Remember when Todd Mcfarlane  left Marvel to start his own company "image" and then through the use of his artistic ability and business sense rode the  bubble of a trending market to diversify his product and build a hugely successful business? 

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Re: The Playing Card Collectors' "Bubble"
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2014, 01:05:58 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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70/30? Well being 1 of the 30%, I know I've backed every card project, and I usually don't buy bricks. I wonder how many of the 70% can say that?

Jackson, I get what your saying. I've got a comparison for you. I sell high risk home insurance. The company I work for- the bulk of sales and profits come from the 70% of low risk customers. For our company to be successful, we have to help the 30% of high risk as well. The 30% is still profitable. We also make money on there auto, because they didn't take it to a different company. Also I wouldn't have a job if it wasn't for the 30%. 
I know your care about the 30% as well. I just have to bust your chops a little  :)
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Re: The Playing Card Collectors' "Bubble"
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2014, 07:43:00 AM »
 

Paul.Middleton

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It's difficult to comment on this topic with the same relevance as folk in the US. We've been used to paying higher prices in the UK since it started (one of the reasons LUXX is £7.99-£8.99 is the whopper of a duty and customs tax bill we will be paying).

That being said I don't think the UK has ever reached the heights of the US market anyway due to a smaller population and less demand, and if the bubble does burst we don't have as far to fall- so to speak.

Regarding EPCC/LPCC- I do know that we have every intention of a second edition printing of LUXX without the bells and whistles on the tuck, and in much bigger numbers to get the retail cost right down to somewhere where can offer a really nice deck for a really nice price. It's a way off, but all being well it will be possible. The thing that made the biggest impact on pricing for us with the first edition LUXX was the size of the the print run. We made a decision to stay away from Kickstarter for a number of reasons, so we had to commit to a number which was realistic for our first deck- but all being well that can be increased for the next one.
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Re: The Playing Card Collectors' "Bubble"
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2014, 11:12:03 PM »
 

Josh Blackmon

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After going back to read this topic from the start I have to say that it is one of the most interesting threads on the site. I think I have been turned in to one of those Kings Wild collectors Jackson was talking about earlier, but I came about it from a different direction. I was a vintage collector as opposed to a non collector and pretty green at that! Naturally, after my initial interest I did internet research and came across many of the modern luxury decks with the Fed 52 series being the one that stood out the most. The price was ridiculous to me at the time but I eventually came around. Although I am primarily a vintage collector I dabble in this modern stuff a little more than I probably should. I went on a streak where I bought up many of the cool looking decks that I wanted but that time has waned. Now I keep an eye out for what Jackson is doing at kings wild because I enjoy the look and the themes match up with my interests. There is a vintage vibe with what they have going on. If he were to make amazing line drawings of aliens and put them in a deck... well no.

So what does this have to do with bubbles and price points etc? Well, as a vintage deck collector I want my money to go in that direction. Heck, I can sometimes find insane deals on stuff that actually is 100 years old and rare as opposed to artificially limited! So why would I want to spend huge chunks of money on modern stuff. I made the decision to follow King's Wild with the bulk of my modern deck money while dabbling very little in to other kickstarter projects. But I don't even buy all their stuff. I haven't gotten Hive yet, and I didn't back Sherlock.

In truth I am ready to get this bubble a bursting just give me the needle! Maybe then I can grab up a lot of those gorgeous decks that I currently cannot afford. But seriously I think we overestimate the popularity of this hobby sometimes. It has grown by leaps and bounds for sure, but I'm still the only person I know locally who does it. When baseball cards were popular I knew 50 people at school who I could trade with every day. I just don't think it has that sort of reach yet, nor do I think it ever will.

In closing I will let you in on a theory I have. Like I said, I follow King's Wild, but as a vintage collector I don't trust em. I know Jackson buys up vintage decks as well. I think he is trying to drain the funds from the competition so that he can swipe up all the old cards and stash them away. Every time I see a rare deck go extremely high on eBay I imagine it is Jackson using the funds from these projects I back to outbid me and take my vintage treasures. No, I really do think that. I guess I need to get out more.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 11:13:39 PM by Josh Blackmon »
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Re: The Playing Card Collectors'
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2014, 09:39:24 AM »
 

aldazar

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My numbers are not gut feelings at all. I have done very specific research on who buys my decks weather on Kickstarter or off.

Out of curiosity, what was the nature of this "very specific research"? Did you do surveys? If so, what was the sample size and how did you select the participants? Or did you somehow infer which group of people each buyer belonged to from objective data?

I'm interested because I have bought a number of your different decks via a number of different channels (KS, the KW site, 3rd party retailers, etc.), and in different quantities each time. Not once have I been surveyed as to the reason for my purchase or whether I would characterize myself as a collector or not, so I'd be very interested to know if you have some data analysis that pegs me as one or the other and how that analysis works.

I actually loose money on the big buyers just because my cost of production is so high.

I don't get how that works. Either you're selling above cost, in which case you make money irrespective of whether someone buys a deck or a brick, or you're selling below cost, in which case you lose money whether someone buys a deck or a brick. In no scenario that I can think of, do you make money when someone buys a few decks but lose money when someone buys a lot (the reverse is possible due to fixed costs, but this isn't an economics blog so there's no need to go there...)

60-70% of my buyers are NON card collectors.
25-30% of my buyers are card collectors.

As someone else has already pointed out, it may be less relevant what percentage of your buyers are collectors or not, and it's quite possibly much more relevant what percentage of your decks sold went to collectors vs non-collectors. Based on your ratios, as long as collectors are buying at least 2-3x as many decks as non-collectors (seems a reasonable assumption to me, but I could well be wrong), they are at least as important to your business as the non-collectors. If they buy more than that, they are more important. That's not even accounting for the fact that collectors are much more likely to be repeat customers, which in and of itself makes them more "valuable" to a business.

Long story short, I suspect that you may be underestimating the importance of the collector to your business.

It may sound selfish but my main focus is to capture non cardcollectors and turn them into Kings Wild Collectors. My focus is not to turn them into card collectors because if they fall into that group then they would be buying someone elses decks and not mine. You would be amazed at the frequency of return buyers who are Kings Wild Collectors over "card collectors"

At that point, they are card collectors already - they're just a rather specialized/picky subset of card collectors - they're "Kings Wild [card] Collectors". As collectors, they're presumably still subject to the demographics and spending habits of other collectors that you mentioned earlier in your post. (I'm not too sure on this point, as you chose not to elaborate on said demographics/spending habits).
 

Re: The Playing Card Collectors'
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2014, 06:50:25 PM »
 

AlbinoDragon

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A little late to the party, but here are my two cents:
App Store or iTunes Store? Two very different things. If talking about the App Store, prices were set early by developers. I feel they made a mistake going to the low cost so early, but the freemium works well for those that can demonstrate value and market the hell out of their product.

Which reminds me, want to see the first screen shot of our solitaire app? [tried attaching an image, we'll see if it works.]

To be able to produce a game, or deck, or any other product to show first and then sell takes a lot of time and capital up front.

I think if you sold 2500 decks at a slightly lower price, you'd make more money than selling a super-limited edition at a price that make people take pause.  Smaller profits per deck, but lower costs per deck and higher number of decks to sell will put you into the black very fast.

I think this is an inaccurate statement. Selling 2500 decks at a higher price is more profitable than selling them at a lower price. Now if you mean selling 100,000 decks at a lower price versus 2,500 at a higher price, that might be accurate depending on the respective pricing.

I do agree with the comic book analogy though. When decks are being produced with three, four, and five variants for the sake of ‘collectability’, it’s not good for an industry. You end up with things like X-Force #1 that everyone buys 5 of each of because there are different trading cards in each one. And then people start speculating, which is the death of these industries, or at least the ending of a chapter. When people start buying bricks ‘to sell later’ and not because they genuinely want to collect them, that’s where you start running into problems. Chances are you’ll be selling them to yourselves in a few years and maybe the occasional collector that came in after the boom.
 

Re: The Playing Card Collectors'
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2014, 02:08:32 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I think if you sold 2500 decks at a slightly lower price, you'd make more money than selling a super-limited edition at a price that make people take pause.  Smaller profits per deck, but lower costs per deck and higher number of decks to sell will put you into the black very fast.

I think this is an inaccurate statement. Selling 2500 decks at a higher price is more profitable than selling them at a lower price. Now if you mean selling 100,000 decks at a lower price versus 2,500 at a higher price, that might be accurate depending on the respective pricing.

By "super-limited", I'm referring to those decks being made in SMALL amounts, like 1,500 to 1,000 decks.  The per-deck costs on those skyrocket when using companies like EPCC and LPCC - or even the smaller outfits like MPC.
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Re: The Playing Card Collectors'
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2014, 09:49:16 AM »
 

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The Card Collecting "bubble" only applies to Card Collectors. 6 out of 10 people who purchase my decks are NON card collectors.

Do you have actual stats on this or is that just a gut feel on your part?  I would assume that there are really 3 kinds of card buyers: collectors, magicians/cardists and general public (use for gifts or common play use).  I would think that people who buy a deck for gifts or play would be more price sensitive and have less of a need to buy multiple quantities or multiple decks.  They would have sheer numbers on their side though, so with a continuous stream of varied themes you could tap that market for quite a while, you would just not have as many repeat customers as the other groups.  Another problem with general public is it's likely your per customer acquisition cost will be huge because you have to keep finding new buyers that just really like the theme of the day or haven't seen seen a custom deck before.  Especially when for play use that's a heavy premium for novelty when a basic deck is 1/5 the cost or less.

Just curious on if you are to a point you have such data or that stat was just a guesstimate.  If you do, it will be interesting to see how KWF sales breakdown compares to Kickstarter.  I would be willing to bet that Kickstarter would be closer to your 6/10 non card collectors due to them stumbling onto decks browsing, but KWF will be more like 1/10, especially long term.

Either way, as an auto buff that other hobby is FAR more expensive and is a big reason I'm usually a single deck collector.  My personal limit is around $10 shipped for a non custom court deck and about $15 shipped for a custom one.  There have been a few exceptions, including for uncuts, but those are really a different animal anyhow.

As for the bubble, I feel it's close as well.  Only the strong will survive if they are prepared to adjust to market demands.  I believe and hope that will include yourself and the other quality artists and companies.  Just don't forget us little insignificant collector demographic.   >:(  ;)

My numbers are not gut feelings at all. I have done very specific research on who buys my decks weather on Kickstarter or off.

Here is how my customers break down:

60-70% of my buyers are NON card collectors. These are people who have never bought a deck of cards besides the everyday bike at walmart to play with at Christmas time with family. These customers are also not jaded about the price per deck because they don't buy every single deck that comes out. They compare purchasing one of my decks with anything else they purchase as a gift for them selves or others. To a card collector $30-$40 is astronomical but to a non card collector that can be captivated by both the story of a deck and the art has no trouble paying $30-$40 for a deck as they see its worth in relation to other things they buy no in relation to other decks of cards. These costumers also don't buy bricks they buy 3-4 decks tops. I actually loose money on the big buyers just because my cost of production is so high.

25-30% of my buyers are card collectors. I don't need to explain the demographics of card collectors and their spending habits. Magicians don't really even register on my radar. Its not that I don't like magicians it's just my cards art are not at all functional for acts. My TallyHos maybe but that is yet to be seen.

Is there a bubble? ABSOLUTELY! But that bubble only applies to the card collecting world and subsequently that section of buyers. If you were to ask the banker who just bought Fed 52s for his staff what do you think about the Card Collecting Bubble? He would look at you as if you were from Mars. There will absolutely be a collapse in the Card bubble and it will come faster than most expect. The designers and companies that it will be effected most will be the ones who have all of the eggs in one basket.

It may sound selfish but my main focus is to capture non cardcollectors and turn them into Kings Wild Collectors. My focus is not to turn them into card collectors because if they fall into that group then they would be buying someone elses decks and not mine. You would be amazed at the frequency of return buyers who are Kings Wild Collectors over "card collectors"

Your research is very interesting. Part of me is not surprised. I think your decks are specifically attracting more non card collectors simply because of your talent and selected subject-matter, not because of playing cards. Like all statistics, your numbers can be looked at as a hypothesis depending on ones perspective.  What I see from your numbers is a snapshot of a playing card buying cycle. After one project those 60%-70% of non card collectors buying your decks are now "card collectors". Are you saying that the 60%-70% are buying one project and not others? Are you bringing more people into collecting and preserving the integrity of the playing card market OR are people collecting more of you (the artist) and not so much playing cards as a whole?
 

Re: The Playing Card Collectors' "Bubble"
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2014, 01:22:18 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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So lets beat this dead horse some more!

KS projects with multiple deck options. The trend seems to be offering a standard, limited, different color, branded, unbranded, etc, etc, etc. Then all the add-ons-dice, coins, uncuts, chips, shirts, certificates of authenticity(what is this- The Franklin Mint-"Get your genuine gold like $3 coin"). I just don't see this as a good trend. If you are like me, and usually get two of each deck the pledge is going from $20ish to $60-$80- $100+. It's not just 24 live card projects right now, but over 34 deck options. A lot of projects start out with 1 deck. get to funding goal, then start adding more decks. Kind of a money grab in a way. I just wonder if the over saturation is making things worse, or getting more people interested. Probably a little of both. I'm just as much to blame as anybody. I've backed a lot of projects. I've had to make concessions though. I've not been able to back some projects, and some I only get one of each deck.

A few examples of multi deck projects

Aves- 1 Branded, 1 Unbranded
Draconian- 2 versions
Titanic- Life Deck, Death Deck, and stretch add-on unbranded deck
Retro Deck- 2 colors
Seasons-2 colors+ 2 limited edition colors
Coat of Arms- 2 colors + 1 stretch add-on color
Steampunk Bandits-2 colors
Mana 3- 3 versions + a second quick project with a 3 version signature series
1876, Mauger Quadruplicate -5 versions
Golden Spike- 2 versions + limited add-on
US Army- 4 versions
White Ornates- 8 versions + 2 stretch add-ons

I wonder if it's possible for a one deck projects to be successful?
Isn't one version of a deck more limited then multiple versions of the same deck-even if they say they are limited? 
I'm not going to stop backing projects. Just be more selective. So the cycle continues.
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.

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Re: The Playing Card Collectors' "Bubble"
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2014, 03:15:16 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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A one-deck project is fine.  Two decks are better, especially if the deck is well-suited for use in playing poker.  Three is about the absolute limit for me.  Beyond that, it can quickly spiral into too many decks.

Limited versus Unlimited - let's face it, folks, most of these deck projects have a very tiny chance of getting printed more than once, so it's all limited!

Branded versus Unbranded - after it's become so diluted in the custom deck market as to become nearly meaningless, is it really worth it to slap the Bicycle brand name on a pack of cards and call it a day, as opposed to making your own brand?  And then there's all those cases where the only actual difference between the packs is the box - the cards are the exact same cards from deck to deck.

As Kickstarter grows, so will the potential audience of people interested in backing a playing card project.  But there has to be a limit somewhere, a point where people say, "I'll go this far, but no further."
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Re: The Playing Card Collectors' "Bubble"
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2014, 03:47:30 AM »
 

Fess

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Sawdust: Circus Playing Card Deck
Ghostbusters Playing Cards
The Science Deck Playing Cards
Mythic Chibi Playing Cards
TENEBRE Playing Cards

Some of the single deck campaigns I've backed. Each one of them successful.

IMHO, the trend you just alluded to Rob makes much more people interested than it pushes people away. Just my opinion mind you. I don't know if hitting a stretch goal deck is a money grab as much as just giving people what they want or making another possibility happen. Examples: Bicycle Steampunk Bandits white and colored decks. People wanted more decks, GW learned that with 'Double Black' when two tucks of the same deck wasn't enough to suit peoples desires. Then there's Four Point Playing Cards, The stretch goal was hit and it enabled Ben to have the recolor he wanted to make become a reality.

It makes good sense to offer more decks if people are willing to buy them. It's a business after all.

I agree with you Don, most of these decks are limited no matter their print run.

I don't know that I'm a typical KS user. From what you listed Rob, Aves and Titanic are the only decks I have pledged for one of each. The rest are all much more. So, yea the multiple decks they work on me, hahaha. Titanic is likely to change once the EPCC deck unlocks and some brilliant chap drops one of those more than onesies pledges. Yes, I will be a vulture and swoop in to claim it in their stead. :bosswalk:
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