Custom Deck Design REDUX-- Comments Appreciated

[wildwildcat]

Hello everyone,
I'm quite new to this forum, so I thought I could share the custom deck design I've been working on, and see how it resonates with you folks .
I call it REDUX, and you can probably tell that I've been influenced by the powerful pips of Lee McKenzie.
Here are some prototype shots, and the current art:






Because Kickstarter creators have to be over 18 (I'm 15 ), I'll have to go to Indiegogo most likely for crowdfunding.
What are your thoughts on the design?
Would you be interested?
Cheers

[Don Boyer]

"Redux" is French for "re-do".  What are you re-doing?

Your design needs some polish.  Your court cards are wearing outfits even more blinding than standard courts, and that's saying something.  And why do they all look like some Japanese bishonen band?  The proportions are also WAY off for a playing card.  If you shrank this to poker size, you'd have teeny heads atop huge bodies wearing what looks like really bad tent-sized muu-muus...

Do yourself a favor - don't launch this.  At least not yet.  If you knew the level of work involved in running and fulfilling a Kickstarter or other crowdfunding project solo, you'd think it would be more fun to simply scoop your eyes out with a spoon.  Instead, LOOK AROUND YOU.  Check out the designs that have come and gone, successful and not so much.  Look at what people have been writing about them.  Try to learn from the failures so you don't emulate them, and from the successes so that you DO emulate them.  Become a sponge of playing card design for the next three years.  Then, hopefully, by the time you hit age 18, you'll have more knowledge on card design and will have practiced your artistic skills in order to produce a product that will be head and shoulders above everything else around it - because THAT is how you'll create a very successful deck design.

[wildwildcat]

Hello Mr. Boyer,
Thank you for illustrating what needs to be fixed in my deck design.  I understand that it is not up to par with what is considered standard in the industry.
Still, I am not willing to abandon this just yet, and am willing to do a design overhaul, should it prove beneficial.  Do you have any more targeted areas where I could specifically improve, in order to create a more aesthetically pleasing deck?
Ultimately, I am thinking of a smaller scale project that might be helpful for me in terms of the journey, "how I get there, what I do", so to speak.  I do hope the entire process teaches me some important lessons on designing and handling an operation.
Thank you,

[Don Boyer]

Hello Mr. Boyer,
Thank you for illustrating what needs to be fixed in my deck design.  I understand that it is not up to par with what is considered standard in the industry.
Still, I am not willing to abandon this just yet, and am willing to do a design overhaul, should it prove beneficial.  Do you have any more targeted areas where I could specifically improve, in order to create a more aesthetically pleasing deck?
Ultimately, I am thinking of a smaller scale project that might be helpful for me in terms of the journey, "how I get there, what I do", so to speak.  I do hope the entire process teaches me some important lessons on designing and handling an operation.
Thank you,

Any design can become a fantastic one or a steaming pile of, well, y'know.  It's all in the execution.

The best advice I can give is to what you've already read.  You need not abandon your design - just polish it, and work on your skills.  Discover what was done before you and learn from it.

[wildwildcat]

Mr. Boyer,
Thanks.  I'll see what I can do about the proportions and other aspects of the cards. 
In terms of overall card design, do you happen to know how most others in the industry smooth and equalize both sides, up down, of their card?
I ended up creating a custom template on GIMP, but I was wondering if most people might lean towards some cleaner functions in Illustrator, perhaps.

[Don Boyer]

Mr. Boyer,
Thanks.  I'll see what I can do about the proportions and other aspects of the cards. 
In terms of overall card design, do you happen to know how most others in the industry smooth and equalize both sides, up down, of their card?
I ended up creating a custom template on GIMP, but I was wondering if most people might lean towards some cleaner functions in Illustrator, perhaps.

First, call me Don.  My father was "Mr. Boyer".

I know less about the actual tools designers use, but I know Illustrator is one of the more popular ones for card design.

Check online - there's a company that sells CD-ROMs loaded with various public-domain images for use in making playing cards - standard faces, pips, old decks, etc.  Check them out - I think it sells for under US$30.  Pretty sure I saw one at Amazon.com.  You can use them as a starting point for creating a design of your own and having the proper proportions for your imagery.

Here's one that comes with a book starting at under $35.
http://www.amazon.com/Antique-Playing-Designs-CD-ROM-Electronic/dp/0486996476/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409601226&sr=8-1&keywords=playing+card+designs+cd-rom

Also, you do have the option to scan a standard pack into your computer and make changes to the design any which way you find necessary.  It, too, will allow you to get the proportions correct in terms of making a court character look like a traditional court character.

Chris Wasshuber self-published this collection of vector files for creating - or altering - a standard pack of cards.
http://www.lybrary.com/52-standard-american-card-faces-p-33036.html

[sprouts1115]

@wildwildcat - Noticed your back. The white negative space in middle is a definite no, no.  You can't split the card like that. YOu can, but the way you are doing it doesn't work.  Don is right you need to have smoother images.   Usually, what he says is true.  Oh, wait do I see a phallic symbol in the middle.   Forget what I just said....

[wildwildcat]

Hey thanks, @Sprouts1115 . Any tips for how to reduce the white space, and why it is not preferred?

Don, I'll take a look at those resources for spacing.  Currently, I'm using a custom created template which divides up my canvas into halves, thirds, and so on.  I'm not sure if this is how others divvy up their space.

[Don Boyer]

By "white space" I think he's referring to the top and bottom of your card back design.  Most designs (though not all) will put something in the corners so they look nice when fanned.  It's not a hard and fast rule, though.  I recently saw a gorgeous card back with a design in the center, diamond shaped, and surrounded by white space.

[wildwildcat]

Thanks Don,
I'll see how to alter the back design to make it "pop" and appear more striking.  My current revision uses the center line for a red line bisecting the cards when fanned.  I'll post more pictures when the prototypes come.

[publius]

OK - I'll give it a shot...

For your back design, as I look at it, the first thing I think is lose the blue geometry around the red center design. I don't know if you should just go with what you have as the red right now, or if you should work up something new in place of the blue. I think the blue shapes take away from it and make it too chaotic. Your red design is pretty cool though. Possibly something with arcs and smooth geometry to break up the angled, chiseled, hard edges - can't really say without seeing it. For your courts, were you going for Harry Potter? If not, they need an overhaul. If so, I still think they need work. This is where you really need to study what's out there for really well designed custom courts. Here's a hint - the faces are always mysterious. Never give too much away. Also, Don is right, the proportion of the heads to the body is out of whack. And the hairstyles just don't do it for me. I would also advise using more muted tones in your color palette - the super bright reds and blues are way too much.

As far as software, Illustrator is the way to go, because vector paths are much smoother and precise than raster graphics. Plus, they can be resized ad infinitum without losing any quality. Photoshop is then used after your design is complete to add texture, filters, complex gradients, custom brushing, etc. Everything done in Illustrator can be redone, resized, and reconfigured easily without sacrificing anything - Photoshop, you're pretty much stuck with - short of hitting the "undo" command 100 times to get back where you were.

Basically I would agree with Don for step one: go out there and check out every good custom deck you can find. Study it. Look at the artwork. Look at the colors. Check out super successful projects on KS; and compare to the unfunded duds. I do this regularly - and can see a real defined difference between the two. Your graphic design skills for 15 years old are impressive. Study the craft, absorb everything you can. Emulate the good; purge the bad. One of the greatest graphic artists of all time, Paul Rand said "Don't try to be original, just try to be good".

Good luck.

[Don Boyer]

One of the greatest graphic artists of all time, Paul Rand said "Don't try to be original, just try to be good".

Good luck.

Exceptionally wise words.  There are countless examples of decks littering Kickstarter where the designer tried so hard to be unique, the end result was far from good.

Perfect the simple stuff.  Once you have that, the harder stuff won't seem quite so hard.  Not only that, but simple can often end up better than complex - y'know, that whole "less is more" thing.  Some of the most beloved designs are quite simple indeed, but exceptionally well executed.

It sort of reminds me of a supposed "Chinese curse" I was once told: "May you live in interesting times."

[wildwildcat]

Hello everyone,
The new prototypes came back, and while some issues still lie un-addressed, I thought I might share the trailer video I made for feedback.
Cinematography is not my strong suit, I'm afraid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjeDMZdK7GU&list=UUIAXnFVQNK6CvrqI2hELXnA

Cheers,

[BenMorrisRains]

One thing I will say is learn how to use the "Pen" tool in Illustrator to make clean lines. I think the art could be pretty good, but the lines are just are a mess. Hurts my head to look at them so jagged and unclean.

[sprouts1115]

One thing I will say is learn how to use the "Pen" tool in Illustrator to make clean lines. I think the art could be pretty good, but the lines are just are a mess. Hurts my head to look at them so jagged and unclean.

Have to agree, but it looks like full steam ahead...

[wildwildcat]

I'll see about smoothing out those lines.

They were originally hand-drawn, but I think any delay to improve their quality would be beneficial.

Thanks for your input!

[BenMorrisRains]

I totally get where you are coming from. When you hand ink something with an actual pen, you have to make sure your final inking is really smooth and clean. Then you scan into Illustrator and trace the image. Whatever is not smooth needs to be re done. This tutorial helped me when I was first starting: http://gomedia.us/zine/tutorials/from-sketch-to-vector-illustration/

[wildwildcat]

Thank you for the helpful resource!

[wildwildcat]

@Don Boyer,
I am considering switching from Indiegogo to Kickstarter as my camapign platform.  I believe this will help me adjust and work on the logistics much easier, as well as allow backers to switch and manipulate their pledges easier.

Of course, I'll have to have an adult representative as I'm not 18 (which might be confusing as my crowdfunding video shows me talking), most likely an older family member, to work on the financial side, but do you think overall it will work better?

Thanks

[wildwildcat]

One thing I will say is learn how to use the "Pen" tool in Illustrator to make clean lines. I think the art could be pretty good, but the lines are just are a mess. Hurts my head to look at them so jagged and unclean.

Have to agree, but it looks like full steam ahead...

Hello,
My friend was kind enough to re straighten the lines. 
Is this better?

[Don Boyer]

Hello,
My friend was kind enough to re straighten the lines. 
Is this better?

Well - he is still wearing a muu-muu the size of a tent...

[Justin O.]

I think what Don is trying to say is that the head is too small compared to the clothing, and it makes the clothing/body look far too large, with the amount of sloid color fields on the court's dress it looks like just lots of shapeless fabric. Try re-proportioning the court.

[wildwildcat]

Thank you for clarifying.  I will see how I can adjust proportions.

[wildwildcat]

Hello,
Just a minor update, but I'm experimenting with some slight shading on the Jokers.
Does this look better than the original?

[Don Boyer]

Hello,
Just a minor update, but I'm experimenting with some slight shading on the Jokers.
Does this look better than the original?

The art is better, but you should use a more generic-looking joker or your card back instead of a distinctive USPC trademarked joker in the hand of your subject.  Using the "king joker" is just asking for a hassle.