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Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)

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Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2014, 05:16:48 PM »
 

Marcus

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Finally an attempt to print a less expensive deck in larger numbers. I hope this project succeeds so that JR might lead the way to a few similar projects in the future.

Now, if only I could convince him of switching the indices' colors to some shade of red for the Diamonds and Hearts. ;D
Yes, I might be the guy you remember from that thing at that place way back when.
 

Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2014, 06:11:07 PM »
 

Anthony

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Agreed Marcus, and I understand your point on the Red............19 days to go, a lot could happen :)
 

Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2014, 06:52:08 PM »
 

JacksonRobinson

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Finally an attempt to print a less expensive deck in larger numbers. I hope this project succeeds so that JR might lead the way to a few similar projects in the future.

Now, if only I could convince him of switching the indices' colors to some shade of red for the Diamonds and Hearts. ;D

Thanks Marcus for the encouraging words. I have my fingers crossed I REALLY don't want to relaunch this again at the "Same Old" $12 a deck price with Super Duper Limited Editions... That is just getting old.

As for the red in the pips I knew you were going to voice that for sure. :) I feel you, for sure but I really really think the red will completely contaminate the entire them of the deck. There is a very good chance that we will test out some new metallic inks that are super reflective but that is still in the air.

Thanks again for your support Marcus your input is greatly appreciated and valued.
Jackson Robinson
www.kingswildproject.com
 

Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2014, 10:25:50 PM »
 

JacksonRobinson

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Finally an attempt to print a less expensive deck in larger numbers. I hope this project succeeds so that JR might lead the way to a few similar projects in the future.

Now, if only I could convince him of switching the indices' colors to some shade of red for the Diamonds and Hearts. ;D

@Marcus

There might be an option that I'm willing to look into...

What if I kept the "all silver" theme only in the Pearl Edition and then maybe introduced metallic red ink into the Slate Edition. There are some production things I would have to look into but I do like the idea of pushing both decks even further from each other, but no commitment yet. ;)
Jackson Robinson
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Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2014, 10:45:43 PM »
 

troy

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Finally an attempt to print a less expensive deck in larger numbers. I hope this project succeeds so that JR might lead the way to a few similar projects in the future.

Now, if only I could convince him of switching the indices' colors to some shade of red for the Diamonds and Hearts. ;D

@Marcus

There might be an option that I'm willing to look into...

What if I kept the "all silver" theme only in the Pearl Edition and then maybe introduced metallic red ink into the Slate Edition. There are some production things I would have to look into but I do like the idea of pushing both decks even further from each other, but no commitment yet. ;)

There are so many things to like about these decks! I love the fact they are mostly black, white and silver. I also really like the court cards. Looks like your best line work yet for your standard courts. Are you holding back the joker images? What about a king with a gas mask a la Lord of the Rings with a thousand silver arrows raining down on him! Would be a killer diptych too.

For me, the diamond pips are difficult to tell they are diamonds. I think it has to do with the fact they are mostly white. I like the idea of red pips, or even a base silver/gray pips might be an improvement, but the way they are now, to me, the diamonds don't look like diamonds, and they would fit with the current theme. Basically the diamond pip you have now but the colors reversed.

The back design is killer.

It seems like many some of the complaints from collectors is wanting to get the pearl edition too. If the goal is to get people to buy the brick for the pearl deck bonus, what about a compromise and add an add-on for D1 brick people to purchase one extra Pearl deck, so they can have 2. Or an interesting experiment would be to open up a tier E1, where it's 11 slates + 2 pearl decks for $100 (lower of course would be better) and see what happens. Haters are going to hate regardless, but those open and deck and keep a deck collectors would be happier, and the bulk of people pledging for bricks right now are probably collectors. Win-win?
 

Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2014, 09:30:06 AM »
 

sprouts1115

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@troy - "For me, the diamond pips are difficult to tell they are diamonds"  I agree, but I only see a couple of cards.  It seems these custom pips are really customized.  Almost to the point to where it makes its own suit.  I think Jackson has come up with the solution with adding metallic red.  What would be a good experiment is to get a demo deck done without the red and get some random ppl to play some poker.  If some ppl start to complain, then you know you have a problem.  I would hate for Jackson to stub his toe and commit to 25,000 decks only to find out there is a question to the functionality of the cards.  Sure, keep the Pearl the same and keep the theme.  Nobody is going to use them anyways.  They're going to be in nice pretty deck displays. 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 07:42:45 AM by sprouts1115 »
 

Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2014, 10:07:42 AM »
 

aldazar

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I would also really like to be able to have more than one pearl deck for my collection! I pledged for a brick, and while it's more than I probably would've otherwise, I'm ok with that, but I really can't justify adding another brick to get another pearl deck... It would be really great if there were a way to get a few more pearl decks!
 

Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2014, 11:01:52 AM »
 

Rose

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Now, if only I could convince him of switching the indices' colors to some shade of red for the Diamonds and Hearts. ;D
I know it feels so wrong to look at Hearts and Diamond pips not in red, also the Clubs pip is weird. Apart from all that beautiful, amazing, stunning court cards! LOVE the detail!
 

Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2014, 02:43:40 PM »
 

Anthony

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Looks like the 1st update to the project may make some people happy.
 

Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2014, 06:01:56 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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@Jackson - Nice compromise.  I think you made a lot of people happy.  In fact, that update might knock 3 birds with one stone.  You might get rid of that typo in the D1 tier.  I'm sure it's an eye sore.  I doubt it though; You will always have that one person who won't switch over to the E1 tier no matter what you do.     
 

Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2014, 12:20:10 AM »
 

Rose

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Looks like the 1st update to the project may make some people happy.
Yay! Red pips! Now the deck is perfect!  :D
 

Re: Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2014, 02:00:33 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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Another awesome project by JR. 

I just can't believe people are bitching about paying $72 for a brick of cards on KS  :-\ 
Of course it doesn't help that, as usual, Victor is spewing crap from his pie hole.
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Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2014, 03:15:40 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Finally an attempt to print a less expensive deck in larger numbers. I hope this project succeeds so that JR might lead the way to a few similar projects in the future.

Now, if only I could convince him of switching the indices' colors to some shade of red for the Diamonds and Hearts. ;D

@Marcus

There might be an option that I'm willing to look into...

What if I kept the "all silver" theme only in the Pearl Edition and then maybe introduced metallic red ink into the Slate Edition. There are some production things I would have to look into but I do like the idea of pushing both decks even further from each other, but no commitment yet. ;)

Glad to see you went for the compromise.  The lack of contrast between the black and gray (it IS gray, right?) makes it difficult to use in a practical setting.

@Jackson - Nice compromise.  I think you made a lot of people happy.  In fact, that update might knock 3 birds with one stone.  You might get rid of that typo in the D1 tier.  I'm sure it's an eye sore.  I doubt it though; You will always have that one person who won't switch over to the E1 tier no matter what you do.     

You can't change a tier if it has at least one backer.  The typo can't be fixed or deleted.  But at least they aren't "god decks"!  Sure, he can ask people to switch tiers, but you'll always have that one person who doesn't notice or pay attention to the request.

Another awesome project by JR. 

I just can't believe people are bitching about paying $72 for a brick of cards on KS  :-\ 
Of course it doesn't help that, as usual, Victor is spewing crap from his pie hole.

Bitching about buying a brick in general isn't so unjustified - many collectors NEVER buy by the brick.  It's a lot of cards and even at $6 a deck it's a big purchase.  I rarely buy by the brick other than for special items, usually ones that I'll use a lot or have vintage value.  Even Variety Boxes are a stretch for me.

Now, what the hell is Victor on about?  Aren't you glad he's been banned from spewing crap in this direction?
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Re: Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2014, 11:19:10 AM »
 

CthulhuWho1

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Now that Jackson has made the addition of the red ink to the Slate decks, and doubled the number of Pearl decks in each Brick to 2, I've upped my four deck order to an E1 Brick with the two Pearl decks.

And I hope enough of us collectors will do the same so these decks can reach their goal and get printed.

They may not be collectible, with 25,000 decks, but at $6.00 per deck, including the much ballyhooed and discussed shipping from the last few months, I can afford to use these decks for just about any purpose; and still be able to buy more later.

Now if Jackson would also make this kind of deal on his Tally-Ho's...

Will Hart
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Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2014, 03:29:10 PM »
 

Justin O.

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Jackson, just wanted to say thanks for the 10/2 brick, I appreciate you making more of the not-LE Pearl editions available to us. it will also allow people that can't justify spending up for the brick a chance to get them a little more readily after the project from those of us who only want to keep one for our collections.

I just can't believe people are bitching about paying $72 for a brick of cards on KS  :-\
Bitching about buying a brick in general isn't so unjustified - many collectors NEVER buy by the brick.  It's a lot of cards and even at $6 a deck it's a big purchase.  I rarely buy by the brick other than for special items, usually ones that I'll use a lot or have vintage value.  Even Variety Boxes are a stretch for me.

I am one of the one's Don is talking about. A brick is a tough pill to swallow, I only want one of each version, and especially with this project, the decks are so cheap that it makes selling the other 9/1 I don't want a struggle. But I don't think it's worth complaining about. I really support Jacksons effort here to try and shift the culture of custom cards away from expensive limited decks, but I am really going to feel it after this project ends and that $72 hits my bank account.
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Re: Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2014, 11:13:45 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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Victor?  Who is that guy?  Is that Him?
 

Re: Silver Arrow (10/11/14 KS)
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2014, 11:25:02 PM »
 

PurpleIce

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Jackson, just wanted to say thanks for the 10/2 brick, I appreciate you making more of the not-LE Pearl editions available to us. it will also allow people that can't justify spending up for the brick a chance to get them a little more readily after the project from those of us who only want to keep one for our collections.

I just can't believe people are bitching about paying $72 for a brick of cards on KS  :-\
Bitching about buying a brick in general isn't so unjustified - many collectors NEVER buy by the brick.  It's a lot of cards and even at $6 a deck it's a big purchase.  I rarely buy by the brick other than for special items, usually ones that I'll use a lot or have vintage value.  Even Variety Boxes are a stretch for me.

I am one of the one's Don is talking about. A brick is a tough pill to swallow, I only want one of each version, and especially with this project, the decks are so cheap that it makes selling the other 9/1 I don't want a struggle. But I don't think it's worth complaining about. I really support Jacksons effort here to try and shift the culture of custom cards away from expensive limited decks, but I am really going to feel it after this project ends and that $72 hits my bank account.

I, too, totally agree we should support Jacksons effort to show other designers that it is not necessary to create an expensive deck to be successful.

But at $72 a brick and $50,000 goal, he needs about 700 backers to buy a brick each to get this project funded. I don't mean to be an @ss here but it probably needs some boosting from somewhere, or it might not reach the target. I personally pledged for a brick, but like what some of us are already saying, not all of us need a brick. Even i do not need a brick, at the very most 4 decks. I am a collector, not a card player or reseller (even though i sell some of my extra decks online, i do not buy decks on a basis of reselling it).

DB's Gatorback prices are slowly dipping on ebay because of the low cost from the website. It is only dipping "slowly" because it cannot be purchased anymore and no news from DB that it will ever be reprinted.

I do hope Jackson can continue making his slate deck a cheap, easily accessible deck, but his pearl edition a much more limited 1. Make it only 2000 printed rather than a minimum of 2000 will be printed depending on pledge. In all honesty, i doubt there will be 1000 brick backers, but the way you phrase it might entice more people to back a brick. State clearly the pearl edition might not be available after KS, used only as a giveaway, and the slate edition, though still affordable after the project, will be more expensive at your website. Hopefully it will get more of the existing backers to up their pledge. I really hope i won't have to re-pledge in another of those $12 Super Duper Limited Editions as well.
 

Re: Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2014, 01:58:12 PM »
 

Anthony

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I think you really need to look at and understand the opposite side of the coin, we talk about hoping this succeesds so that other designers can see it's a viable option..........what's the message if it doesn't?

Simple, inexpensive decks won't be coming from independant designers. It takes a lot of product to make a decks selling price low, and if the message that rings out from Arrows is that it can't be done on a crowd funding platform, nobody's going to even approach that as an option.

While many gripe about the high cost of decks and artificially inflated LE pricing and strategies, it really seems that's what the masses want.....not everyone, but more than those who don't apparently. This project isn't just about Jackson and KW, it can set the stage for what "won't" happen again.

The fact that so many fixated on the Pearl Edition speaks volumes about how we as collectors, enthusiast, etc... have been conditioned.

Also, while everyone likes to "Talk" a good game, at least Jackson's giving it a go, because I can pretty much guarantee that it woulld have been easeier and more lucrative to launch something callled "Federal 52 Part 2" and just ignore the constant cry for less expensive decks........but he didn't.

So we'll see what happens
 

Re: Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2014, 05:59:25 PM »
 

Justin O.

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I think you really need to look at and understand the opposite side of the coin, we talk about hoping this succeesds so that other designers can see it's a viable option..........what's the message if it doesn't?

I think you make a good point here Anthony,
large production run of cheap selling decks is harder to do, and if Jackson Robinson can't make it work then I don't think an indie designer will be able to; but I do think Jackson is doing the right thing by taking what so many have been saying for some time and putting it into action.
I don't mind paying $15 for a deck, but I mind when people expect every deck they create is worth $15, the hope is that this can pave the way for people to start being more comfortable with large prints and smaller per deck prices. I honestly don't think this will succeed, but I think this is one of many good first steps in the right direction to help shift the mindset.
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

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Re: Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2014, 12:11:14 AM »
 

PurpleIce

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While many gripe about the high cost of decks and artificially inflated LE pricing and strategies, it really seems that's what the masses want.....not everyone, but more than those who don't apparently. This project isn't just about Jackson and KW, it can set the stage for what "won't" happen again.

The fact that so many fixated on the Pearl Edition speaks volumes about how we as collectors, enthusiast, etc... have been conditioned.

The truth is many other projects out there can hit their target also often depends on the variety that is being offered. I have seen people release one great deck, but might not be able to hit the target because people just don't need that many of the same decks, and that is with $12-15 decks and maybe a 25,000 funding goal.

I am not crazy. I definitely would like more $6 decks in the market. I'm just saying people will not buy 12 decks just because it is cheap, and put it somewhere in their storage drawer. The playing card market is still considerably small. Jackson's Fed 52 is definitely one great success, but most other successful card projects usually end up with 700-1200 backers. Many that just made their funding goal often have 300-500 backers. With a low deck cost and higher funding goal, it simply means you either need more backers or higher pledges from each backer.

Silver Arrow is definitely a well-designed deck, and probably will hit 700+ or even more backers when the project ends. But how many actually buys bricks or anything more than 2-4 decks? I'm just saying there needs to have LE or other "incentives"/limited time & availability/stretch goals to attract people to 1) increase their pledges, 2) attract "watchers" to make their pledges 3) get more people to spread word about this project.

BTW, LE need not be expensive as well. It can be just something with a limited print run that can not be purchased easily elsewhere or at the same price point again outside of the initial launch. I don't think this is about a project to create another standard deck or rider back that everybody can get after the project ends, because if that is what it is, then people will wait till it is out in the open market to buy them. (It is just human when given a choice, to go for items that they cannot obtain in a near future rather than something they feel they can get anytime they want). It is more about creating custom decks with everything available in the market right now, (foil, LE, metallic ink, embossing, better grade stock, custom seals...etc.) all at a reasonable, affordable, less inflated pricing.

EDIT: I also am putting focus on the Pearl because, based on simple demand and supply logic, trying to convince people that a 25,000 print run slate edition will not be available for sale after the KS project, and getting people to think the price will be super inflated in the resale market should seem a tad difficult.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 12:15:58 AM by PurpleIce »
 

Re: Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2014, 01:51:13 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I think the basic concept of a readily-available deck with a nice custom design at a price lower than most decks is outstanding.  But it should never have been launched on Kickstarter.  He should have had the deck printed and offered if for sale, plain and simple.  Do you ever see companies like Ellusionist, Theory11, Dan & Dave, David Blaine, etc. selling their common, inexpensive decks on Kickstarter?  NO!  They print in similar quantities to what this deck will cost and they get a steep-enough discount per deck that they can sell them cheaper than most Kickstarter decks, even after you account for shipping.

I think the idea of a limited version of a common deck is not exactly unheard of - who remembers trying to buy Ellusionist's Red Artifice deck when it was first released?  But - and I've said this before in other places - the mere existence of a deck is no guarantee that you'll be able to get that deck.  It could be, as in this case, part of a special "customer loyalty" offer you aren't willing to participate in, or it's too rare, too expensive, not for sale, only available to the first person to crack the Grand Unified Theory, only available as a gift for staying at the first orbital hotel, only found in Davy Jones' locker, awarded as a gift for beating the goddess Diana in a footrace, etc.

Collectors - you buy what makes you happy and is within your means.  Let others buy the expensive stuff and they'll have less cash when the next cool deck comes out - a golden opportunity to be that lucky recipient.

Would it be great if we could control pricing on decks of cards, so all of them were affordable, and quantities, so they'd be are rare or common as we want them to be?  Perhaps.  But that is a pipe dream that will never happen, not in a free-market economy.  Jackson was not entirely unsympathetic, to the point of sweetening the offer to include two rare decks.  But it's his choice and his choice alone as to how and why his decks are priced and available as they are.

Decks of cards are like trains at rush hour - there will always be another train coming to the station, and sometimes faster than you'd think.
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Re: Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2014, 11:27:20 AM »
 

Anthony

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I think the pockets of Ellusionist and Theory 11 are a tad deeper than Jackson's Don.

That being said, even D&D are trying to absorb costs with Deckstarter.
 

Re: Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2014, 11:04:58 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I think the pockets of Ellusionist and Theory 11 are a tad deeper than Jackson's Don.

That being said, even D&D are trying to absorb costs with Deckstarter.

They are not absorbing anything over at Deckstarter - every deck offered was already printed before the project began.  Where I come from, that isn't crowdfunding - it's retail.  They're disguising it as crowdfunding and selling it to people who are into high design, hence the high price tags and limited numbers, the antithesis of what Jackson's attempting here.

Theory11 and Ellusionist have deeper pockets, but they also carry far more than just playing cards in their inventory, in addition to producing videos.

Considering the costs, I could imagine Jackson would have the needed funds to make it.  But as Kickstarter is more of a marketplace than an idea incubator these days, it does seem natural to continue with the practice of launching projects.  If you want to reduce risk, you can have pre-orders.  But if you want the built-in audience, you go to Kickstarter.

A basic, bare-bones deck from USPC printed in a lot of 5,000 would cost in the ballpark of $2.50-$3.00 per deck.  Quadruple the order size and the price will drop significantly, probably somewhere under $2.00 a deck.  But that does require more outlets than simply Kickstarter to sell them through - except for the fact that Jackson's pushing a more-limited version of the deck only available when people buy by the brick.  He's counting on high brick sales, perhaps a thousand bricks or so, since he's offering two rare decks per brick.
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Re: Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2014, 12:35:01 AM »
 

PurpleIce

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But that does require more outlets than simply Kickstarter to sell them through - except for the fact that Jackson's pushing a more-limited version of the deck only available when people buy by the brick.  He's counting on high brick sales, perhaps a thousand bricks or so, since he's offering two rare decks per brick.

That is why i was saying Jackson should be changing the "marketing" a little. Telling people no more than 2000 LE decks will be sold, and telling them that all surplus from KS will only be used as giveways, or sold at a much much MUCH higher price point. Pledgers are still getting it at $6 a deck irregardless. These gives people more reasons to want to pledge a brick.

If everyone thinks they can get a LE edition in the resale market at say, $15 for the LE, or $20 for a set of both. They most likely will not pledge a brick for $72 and get additional decks that they do not need. Also, not everybody who buys decks are actually keen on re-selling them, and those who resell the slate editions (where most of the extra decks will be), they will be competing with a very high number of resellers selling the same deck at a low profit margin.

Like what Don said, Jackson should have printed, took pre-orders, and sold them via his website. If you launch it on KS, you might get more audience than your own website, but you will need a different marketing strategy as well.
 

Re: Silver Arrow, Luxury playing cards by Jackson Robinson (KS)
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2014, 03:28:47 AM »
 

Justin O.

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  • Charm gets you quite far. Guile gets you the rest.
Couldn't Jackson just invest personal capital to make up the difference he needs to close this project? Assuming whatever doesn't sell through Kickstarter will sell through his site and he comps whatever doesn't get made by backers than this is a sound strategy. Assume he has the capital to produce without crowd funding, why not run a KS project anyways to get as much as you can from backers and kick in the rest yourself?
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.