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Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!

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Re: Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2015, 11:34:07 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Sometimes a sequel is better and sometimes it's not. Which occasion does Orbiter 2.0 fall into? I don't know yet.

The deck cage design has changed quite a bit. From a three part cage to a two part cage. The original plans for the Orbiter cage called for black hard plastic to be used as a support and two clear acrylic sides to be popped on for display. Everything attached to the hard plastic center, which appeared to be the structure portion of the cage.

This version's cage is two molded pieces of acrylic that fit together, one of the acrylic sides will hold the nibs so it can be placed into the frame. This removed the black hard plastic structure piece. While the look is cleaner, it also appears to be somewhat weaker. I don't think this design would hold up to impact of an accidental drop as well. This new version may very well be better for it, popping open with ease to reduce damage to the cage. It's hard to say having never tested either, just have a gut feeling from previous experience with clear acrylic cases.

These re-designed orbiters allow us to place a total of six decks in the frame. This is another pretty big change to the original design which allowed some fifteen total decks per frame. It looks like there may have been some issue for some backers over the size of Orbiter 1.0 and they've addressed this making each frame smaller while keeping the stackable, customizable design from the originals.

The nibs have undergone a redesign as well. They're no longer the involved contraptions we knew before, but now simple and easy to place posts. No doubt a money saving move. I think this one is a no brainer and a gigantic plus over the original design.

Most obvious change is the frame itself. This has been shortened and from the photo renders it looks as though it's also a little thinner than the originals. Orbiter 2.0 does bring a lot of changes to the design, many of which are cost savings, and several just make sense from an ease of use perspective.

Without caring about the funding goal, that's not our job as backers, which design do you think has more appeal? Is this the Display that will finally bring card collections out of the shadow box?

Well, the cases are still protective - but they were never meant to be bullet-proof or even idiot-resistant...

The lower price is appealing, but there's no way it will completely supplant the shadow box.  Simply put, shadow boxes are SUPER cheap compared to these, measured in terms of dollars spent for each deck displayed.  Though in a shadow box, you can't twirl your decks on a vertical axis...but I don't know of many people who would want to.
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Re: Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2015, 11:50:51 AM »
 

Fess

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I'm not convinced these are any cheaper Don. Expand the numbers out a bit if you will, I think you may agree with me. That's why I ask about the design of the display. The design is the main issue here since cost wise, this wouldn't actually less expensive for me at all really.

(40 decks Original Design cost to me would have been $215, 40 decks new design cost is $263.)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 11:54:56 AM by Fes »
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Re: Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2015, 01:41:48 PM »
 

louizz

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Hi everyone!

Let me address the "is it cheaper?" question. The answer is yes and no.

So with version v2 we decided to take a different approach then on v1- and yes, to ensure there are no smoke and mirrors going on, the price per deck displayed is more. However, the actual unit cost is less as is the funding goal, which was our main focus.

When we did v1, there were substantial costs associated with it and it's production- hence why the funding goal was so high as was the unit price. On v1, we were focused on the large collectors. The folks who had a plethora of decks, and they wanted to display as many of them as they could. Our general feedback was that it was too large, too expensive, too high of a funding goal, and some people didn't like the actual display cases used as it blocked the sides. But, overall it was a good concept.

On v2, we decided to try to incorporate that feedback. The main focus was to get the funding goal down, which we did substantially. The only way to do this was change the design around, which worked out to also help address some of the other concerns. We shortened the frame to hold 4-6 opposed to 10-15, which makes it more usable to a lot of folks. We changed the "nipple", which truthfully didn't change the price that much, but simplified the design. And, most importantly, changed the deck holder to be clear at every angle, allowing for a true every angle view-able area.

We wanted to make v2 more accessible to everyone, not just the hardcore collector with 100+ decks. With the new design, you can still display your decks, but you might just have to be more selective with what your displaying. It's also important to remember that one could also add as many clear sleeves they want to their order and switch them out as desired. They could purchase the 3 Orbiter option, and simply rotate decks out as they see fit.

The bottom line is, we were trying to make them cheaper per unit, make the funding goal substantially cheaper, and listen to the feedback and incorporate it. Some of our bigger backers from the first go around are going to be understandably upset, as it will ultimately cost them more to display the equal amount from the v1 display (FES). I wouldn't necessarily expect them to make the same level of pledge though, and fully understand if they didn't. But, perhaps they pick up a few, and go the rotation route.

Hopefully, this post will clear up a few points, and at the very least let folks know the approach this go around.

As for my opinion, I see pros and cons to both. Obviously, depending on your point of view, it's easy to argue either way. If you take the per deck display route, it's more costly... no doubt. You're paying less, but you're also getting less. But isn't that the way everything is?  :D

I think v2 is a better design all around compared to v1. V2 is cleaner, takes up less space, and ultimately more affordable for the person who wants to display a handful of decks, versus they're entire collection.
 

Re: Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2015, 02:36:54 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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All in all, for "that" kind of collector - the one who wants to display his or her precious decks in a unique and easily-visible-all-the-way-around kind of way, then this is a good piece of hardware for him or her.  I like the fact that you made the sides clear - I never really liked that about the original design.

I'm not convinced these are any cheaper Don. Expand the numbers out a bit if you will, I think you may agree with me. That's why I ask about the design of the display. The design is the main issue here since cost wise, this wouldn't actually less expensive for me at all really.

(40 decks Original Design cost to me would have been $215, 40 decks new design cost is $263.)

But how did you calculate that?  40 decks can be ten racks, or it can be seven racks.  Cost of ten racks (no shipping) is $235, but the cost of seven racks plus 12 extra cases is $199.  Granted, six of those seven will have six decks each in them and won't have room for 360-degree twirling, but you would save $36 (that's a phat stack if you get it in singles!) and have a cool-looking display in your home - with a special rack for your four créme de la créme decks.

It's a great idea for people who have the cash to spend on it, but for those who can't, there's always the humble shadow box.  For every guy who buys a BMW or a Mercedes-Benz, there's probably dozens looking at Honda Civics or anything made by KIA.  The Beemer and the Benz will get you there in class and style - but either car does still get you there, unless you drive like a moron!  :))
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Re: Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2015, 07:37:25 PM »
 

Fess

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I'm not convinced these are any cheaper Don. Expand the numbers out a bit if you will, I think you may agree with me. That's why I ask about the design of the display. The design is the main issue here since cost wise, this wouldn't actually less expensive for me at all really.

(40 decks Original Design cost to me would have been $215, 40 decks new design cost is $263.)

But how did you calculate that?  40 decks can be ten racks, or it can be seven racks.  Cost of ten racks (no shipping) is $235, but the cost of seven racks plus 12 extra cases is $199.  Granted, six of those seven will have six decks each in them and won't have room for 360-degree twirling, but you would save $36 (that's a phat stack if you get it in singles!) and have a cool-looking display in your home - with a special rack for your four créme de la créme decks.

40 deck offerings are on both campaigns. They have them as tier rewards. Tier 6 of the original campaign, Final tier new campaign. Although I consulted your table here on this forum for the old campaign before checking that campaign page just now.

Let me address the "is it cheaper?" question. The answer is yes and no.

Haha, Scott you crack me up man. Let me know when you make a run for political office, I'll send some campaign support. ;)

Price, while important, is not my main concern. My concerns are in the design changes. Some are good for me, some are not so good for me. Ultimately that's what I need to judge and either accept or reject based upon my needs. I'm curious what others think of the design changes.

I can't see one of these in action, hold it up close, pat it on the rump call it Nancy the Tavern Wench if you will. I'm going on renders here, with everyone else. Unfortunately I have poor vision, on occasion I need a little help. This just so happens to be one of those times.

Is that a rail and groove I'm seeing to keep the deck cage closed?
Is that the bendy stuff or the really hard stuff that the cage is made of?
Do the nibs have little springs in them or something for easy slotting without the cage coming apart?
Will the cages hold particularly thick tuck box decks? Voltige for example
What are the dimensions for the frame on this one?
Have the cages been tested against your drunk cousin who can't keep from touching things on display with his buffalo wing fingers?
If my girl accidentally pops off half a deck cage, doing whatever she does, will she think she's broken it?
Will there be a baggy of extra nibs included, cause those little boogers look easier to lose than the posts for bookcase shelves when you're moving. Deep carpeting and your hosed.

Things like this are what concern me. The deck cage has become something very different. Embracing change isn't easy. Even less so when you remove those nifty little leaf springs that would have kept my decks comfortably supported all year round, or cushioned in the horrible event of an earthquake. I love my decks. After all that has been considered, then I look at price and weigh value.
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Re: Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2015, 11:03:56 PM »
 

louizz

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Hey Fes! I'd never run for politics, I have way too much respect for my country.  :)

So you have bad eyesight, huh? Well, trust me when I say that the Orbiter is a VERY attractive woman, who loves to cook and clean. Don't check the project again though. Just go ahead and pledge. ;)

So, I'll try to address all your questions.

The clear case locks/snaps together using grooves that are offset from each other. It's not so much a rail groove, but similar concept. The vertical portion of the holder's groove is slightly larger, allowing for the horizontal piece's groove to slide in and lock.

The clear acrylic piece has more give then the frame. I wouldn't consider it "bendy" necessarily, but it's got give for sure.

The nipples don't have springs in them, but the way we designed the Orbiter will allow for easy taking out and installing decks. (that's were the flex comes into play on the frame and clear displays. :)

The clear boxes should hold most decks no problem. There's a little bit of extra room in the cases, so I don't think there should be any issues at all. As long as your decks aren't made of cardboard. lol!

The Frame is roughly 13" wide.

"Have the cages been tested against your drunk cousin who can't keep from touching things on display with his buffalo wing fingers?" No, but I did eat an entire 22 oz steak once.

"If my girl accidentally pops off half a deck cage, doing whatever she does, will she think she's broken it?" It depends. Is she blonde? Also, do you want her to thinks it's broken? It depends on how you want to spin it. So, yes and no. :)

So you're looking for a bag of nipples? *snicker, snicker* That's a good idea. I know we're going to keep the clear acrylic cases on hand for sale after the project, we'll probably order some additional nipples too.

As for the leaf springs, that was actually my hardest decision in the redesign. I really liked the leaf spring frame.
Sadly, a few people wanted to have the sides visible, as well as concerns about the decks fitting to snugly, and leaving marks on the decks. Cutting it answered the mail for those folks, as well as reduced costs. It was like cutting off an arm. :-[

I love your decks too. Can I have some? :)

Hopefully, this will help answer some of your questions. Also, don't forget, it's an attractive woman who loves to cook and clean... Definitely not a deck holder.
 

Re: Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2015, 12:57:49 AM »
 

Fess

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Well, trust me when I say that the Orbiter is a VERY attractive woman, who loves to cook and clean. Don't check the project again though. Just go ahead and pledge. ;)

Hahaha, I have one of those already. The very last thing I want to do is start a collection. Now the cost over time is of paramount concern! You've really put that in perspective.  :P

Thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate the information.

Quote
I love your decks too. Can I have some? :)

haha, sure we can trade Scott. Punch me over an email with what you're after, we'll get it worked out. :)
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Re: Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2015, 04:50:57 PM »
 

louizz

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So, I have some great news! First off, people are awesomely smart! I didn't come up with this concept, but I wanted to share it with you all!

One of my backers asked a question, that led to a VERY exciting discovery!

The Orbiter 2.0 can actually display 18 decks with just 2 Orbiters. Or, 30 decks with just 3. Or, 42 decks, with just 4... You get the point.

See, the holes go all the way through the acrylic frame, which is 6mm thick. The nipples that hold the decks into place is just 3mm thick. That leaves exactly enough room for another nipple to go on the top/bottom.

This means that you can mount 2 Orbiters to the wall and then put 6 deck holders in between them, instantly creating an 18 deck display! Or, get 3 Orbiters, and put 12 decks (6 in between each one) and have 30 decks displayed! Obviously this only works for wall mounting, but that evens up the playing field for the larger collectors pretty substantially!

 

Re: Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2015, 05:39:50 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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You need to toss that guy some free Orbiters.  The idea was pretty brilliant.
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Re: Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2015, 05:49:43 PM »
 

louizz

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You need to toss that guy some free Orbiters.  The idea was pretty brilliant.
Yes, it certainly was!
 

Re: Orbiter 2.0 Playing Card Display - LIVE on Kickstarter!
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2015, 09:31:10 AM »
 

CBJ

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Congrats on hitting your goal!!!

and still another 33 days to go!
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