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FINE LINE: Playing Cards in Pictures & Words (KS)

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Re: FINE LINE: Playing Cards in Pictures & Words (KS)
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2014, 11:31:25 PM »
 

AdamF

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AdamF - When you say "There is a method to my madness"  you are speaking my language.  Your deck is obviously an art deck.  What that means is all your courts and pips are going to be "1-way" and you have done your research into knowing your back of card should be a mirror image or "2-way"  I respect you more and my hat is off to you.  You have not broken any rules, but have really bent the crap of of them.  Yes, your back of card looks like a spider made it on LSD, but hey that's my opinion. But I also know it goes with your theme.  Stick to your guns.  I think you have something different and special.  Your deck is a very unique deck and love seeing decks like this.  They are far and few between.

Sprouts, Don, Alvinhy -- thanks for all your thoughts on the back.  They're well taken.  But I do stand by the choice we're making here.  I think that as collectors we're all used to seeing backs as the place where the deck designer shows off how fine his hand can be, how ornate a pattern he can render -- it's the only place where the designer gets to work on a truly blank canvas.  But in our deck, every card is a novelty -- every card is a visual game or pun or trick.  So we did something different with the back -- no games. (Although I do appreciate Don's idea for the "back of head" back.)  I also happen to think our back is beautiful.  Anyway, I'm glad that it's making controversy.  This is an art form we all care about.  I don't think I would've done my job at advancing the art form if I hadn't stirred up a little trouble.
 

Re: FINE LINE: Playing Cards in Pictures & Words (KS)
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2014, 01:38:30 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Sprouts, Don, Alvinhy -- thanks for all your thoughts on the back.  They're well taken.  But I do stand by the choice we're making here.  I think that as collectors we're all used to seeing backs as the place where the deck designer shows off how fine his hand can be, how ornate a pattern he can render -- it's the only place where the designer gets to work on a truly blank canvas.  But in our deck, every card is a novelty -- every card is a visual game or pun or trick.  So we did something different with the back -- no games. (Although I do appreciate Don's idea for the "back of head" back.)  I also happen to think our back is beautiful.  Anyway, I'm glad that it's making controversy.  This is an art form we all care about.  I don't think I would've done my job at advancing the art form if I hadn't stirred up a little trouble.

There's "stirring up trouble" and there's "alienating potential customers."  It appears like you're doing both.

For collectors, it's a matter of how attractive a deck looks.  That back is the antithesis of attractive.
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Re: FINE LINE: Playing Cards in Pictures & Words (KS)
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2014, 07:12:48 PM »
 

sprouts1115

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@AdamF - YOu definitely have an art deck.  Are you going to have a white border on you face and pips cards?  That would also make it a poker deck.  You need the white border you can also fade to border Black to White.  The more I look at the "2-side" back of card the more I like it.  The back of card is chaos and black and front of card is... 
 

Re: FINE LINE: Playing Cards in Pictures & Words (KS)
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2014, 08:22:43 PM »
 

Will W.

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Yes its an "Art Form" but is it one that will sell?  You are trying to sell it, right?  Personally the back of the cards are a HUGE selling point to me and this doesnt appeal to me at all. It seems as if you were mostly interested in creating the unique faces and just threw something on the back.
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Re: FINE LINE: Playing Cards in Pictures & Words (KS)
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2014, 09:22:01 PM »
 

Rose

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It seems like zero effort was put into the back. Also I love art so I should love this deck, though all I see are doodles. I do NOT see how this could be usable as a poker deck. And honestly I am tired of seeing this.
I get it the deck exists, well done.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 09:24:19 PM by Rose »
 

Re: FINE LINE: Playing Cards in Pictures & Words (KS)
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2014, 12:08:35 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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It seems like zero effort was put into the back. Also I love art so I should love this deck, though all I see are doodles. I do NOT see how this could be usable as a poker deck. And honestly I am tired of seeing this.
I get it the deck exists, well done.

It wouldn't be impossible - it would just be very difficult, result in some degree of confusion and in the end the deck would never again see use in that poker game.  Poker requires quick identification of your cards and your hand as a whole, as well as community cards (in a game such as Texas Hold 'Em) or players' exposed cards (in a game such as Seven-Card Stud).

This deck doesn't offer that speed of recognition, but it would be great for little children who don't yet understand the differences between the suit pips or that the ranks of jack, queen and king are anything more than just "people" or "women and men".  It's also a decent additional challenge for a hard-core game that challenges the players' intelligence, or in other words, something you might see played on the TV show The Big Bang Theory.

But seriously, Adam - the back is horrible in appearance.  It's been said more than once that collectors buy a deck for how attractive it is, and for many decks, the card backs are roughly half of the attraction.  You will turn off many people from buying it because of how ugly that back looks.  I mean, make it look like a Jackson Pollack painting or something, even throw in a little color, but a drawing - nay, a scribble - like that is the kind of drawing that makes teachers send their student/artists to the guidance counselor or a social worker.

While it is true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, this is almost universally being panned as a BAD, UNATTRACTIVE IDEA for a card back.  You've already got two strikes against you trying to pitch such a unique design on the faces - this back design is the third strike and it's the last out in the bottom of the ninth inning.  People could forgive the eccentricity of the front if the back was just as beautiful as the faces, but you've gone out of your way to make it terrible.  You could even use that border art you have on the face of the deck's tuck box - I wouldn't worry much about a one-way design on the back, we've well established that no card sharps will be trying to fleece the suckers at the table with this deck.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 12:13:52 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: FINE LINE: Playing Cards in Pictures & Words (KS)
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2014, 01:23:36 AM »
 

Fess

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Backing this deck. Reasons are simple, it's interesting and fun. I don't understand the birch book thingy at all. Kind of reminds me of a chopping block with a deck crammed into the side. Still, it's cool if someone wants one or three.

Can't play poker with it, but that's okay. I've many decks I can't use for poker. Unlike many of the others I can't play poker with, this one will be a great conversation deck. Where I don't need to lead the conversation about it. I'm really going to enjoy plopping it down and seeing what people think of the cards. What they see, what they won't see. If they're interested, or if they're not. Everyone I've come across stops and looks for Waldo. Here instead of Waldo, it's everything else. Good times ahead with this one, I think.

Good stuff, I think it's a win. :D
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Re: FINE LINE: Playing Cards in Pictures & Words (KS)
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2014, 02:17:05 AM »
 

PurpleIce

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Yes its an "Art Form" but is it one that will sell?  You are trying to sell it, right?  Personally the back of the cards are a HUGE selling point to me and this doesnt appeal to me at all. It seems as if you were mostly interested in creating the unique faces and just threw something on the back.

But seriously, Adam - the back is horrible in appearance.  It's been said more than once that collectors buy a deck for how attractive it is, and for many decks, the card backs are roughly half of the attraction.  You will turn off many people from buying it because of how ugly that back looks.  I mean, make it look like a Jackson Pollack painting or something, even throw in a little color, but a drawing - nay, a scribble - like that is the kind of drawing that makes teachers send their student/artists to the guidance counselor or a social worker.

While it is true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, this is almost universally being panned as a BAD, UNATTRACTIVE IDEA for a card back.  You've already got two strikes against you trying to pitch such a unique design on the faces - this back design is the third strike and it's the last out in the bottom of the ninth inning.  People could forgive the eccentricity of the front if the back was just as beautiful as the faces, but you've gone out of your way to make it terrible.  You could even use that border art you have on the face of the deck's tuck box - I wouldn't worry much about a one-way design on the back, we've well established that no card sharps will be trying to fleece the suckers at the table with this deck.

Congratulations on the successful project.

Well, we can't really fault much when his project is funded 300% funded with 19 days to go. (Granted his funding goal is low for a USPC print run)...But i really really wish he could change that back. I keep telling people to stick to their guns if they have a good concept behind and think it is right, but i am really going crazy about this. Heck, even if he made the back blank, i would think it is better.

Oh well, maybe he is a starter of something so new that the average us cannot understand.
 

Re: FINE LINE: Playing Cards in Pictures & Words (KS)
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2014, 03:08:00 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I was fortunate enough to receive a sample deck from Adam.  It will be different from the final product in that this deck was made by MPC and had a blue box and no extra cards, the final version will be made by USPC in a white box with extra cards.  (I'll let you figure out what the extra cards will be!)

The artwork is attractive.  There's no denying that at all.

I noticed that the backs weren't perfectly aligned when they were cut, allowing for some cards to have white spots in certain places and not other places along the edge, and in a manner that matched some but not all of the cards.  It's not a very clean look - consider adding a black border at the edge of the back design to create a uniform edge appearance.  A white border would be even better, since black borders do eventually chip and show the white paper underneath, but that might clash with the present design being so predominantly black.

I ran into a bit of a hitch when trying to play my current favorite solitaire game, Canfield (known in some places as Demon).  I know there's the whole "guessing of the suits" gimmick, which is an interesting one, but there's a bit of a problem in that the cards are completely monochrome, with a single exception of a card with a seven-color rainbow on it.  Canfield requires the stacking of alternating red and black cards on the tableau before they can be sent to the foundations at the top of the play area.  Adding the complexity of discovering the suit to the necessity of arbitrarily choosing certain cards to be "red" and others to be "black" made the level of difficulty too much for a simple, fun game.  As most solitaire games use this mechanic of a two-color deck, it means most of them would be very difficult to play using this deck.

For other games not relying on color, such as rummy or gin, you could use this deck without being driven crazy with interpreting the suits.  But even there, it does add real complexity to the game itself.  That could actually be a fun mechanic for a party game!  If you know people who are into party games, this deck could be a real kick in the pants to liven up the party.

So, buy it as an art deck.  Buy it as a deck for children to discover with.  Buy it as a party game deck.  Don't buy it for poker or solitaire.  And a special caveat - when dealing with young kids aged about 5 and up, they'll identify pictures and phrases more easily than they'll identify cards, making them an interesting alternative to a traditional deck for use in certain routines.  When they're young enough, all the Jacks and Kings just look like "guys" and they have a hard time telling the suit pips apart from each other, especially if they're the same color.  This deck possesses NONE of those "drawbacks".  However, there's one thing you might want to do - one of the queens is represented by the word "drag" and I don't know of anyone who wants to explain what a drag queen is to a child...

EDIT: I played a bit with the deck, just sorting the cards by suit - didn't do too bad, only had one misplaced card.  The suits are identifiable, but it makes you think more than you normally would in order to identify them.  Indices would be great, but would also ruin the puzzle aspect of the deck.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 03:10:50 AM by Don Boyer »
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