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Hello
« on: October 15, 2014, 03:56:47 PM »
 

ryan9112

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Hi, my name is ryan, I am from lebanon. I am a collector and a cardist. i found this website by well just googling 'playing card forums' :P...
i always had interests in these kind of hobbies , i started out playing with yoyos but i didnt excel cause in lebanon well yoyo-ing here isnt big so there aren't any pro yoyos. so i always had an interest in these kind of activities. i am also here for a bit of info. because this summer i am going to the america for a month (vacation purposes) and i wana buy a few packs of cards. so far i found a few card decks on amazon. also is amazon great to get cards? i mean ebay is better because i found more variaty of cards like 'jaqk'. i am mainly willing to spend 70$ on cards when but i am flexible i cud spend a bit more i dont mind. so what are the cards a 'collector' shud own. keep in mind i am buying a 12 pack of bicycles for 20$ so i have 50$ remaining for collection cards. thx for ur help!!
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2014, 03:59:39 PM »
 

ryan9112

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forgot to mention i am 17 years old
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2014, 12:12:38 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Hello, Ryan - welcome to the Discourse!  I'm glad you found us so easily.

Can't find pro-grade yo-yos?  Have you tried searching online?  I would imagine that just as there are card forums online, there should be yo-yo retailers as well!

Amazon.com is not a bad place to find decks, actually.  The variety will be better on eBay, but the price fluctuations can be a nuisance.  There are numerous other deck producers with an online presence as well - we talk about them here frequently.  I'll give you a sampling of companies to check out - most also sell magic:

ellusionist.com
thebluecrown.com
theory11.com
dananddave.com
davidblaine.com
bigblindmedia.co.uk
kingswild.com
encarded.com
houseofplayingcards.com
playingcards.net
tannens.com
cardexperiment.com
fantasmamagic.com

That's enough to get your juices going.

Check in advance if the cities you plan to visit have magic shops in them.  Tannen's and Fantasma both operate retail stores in New York, and many other cities will have magic supply shops either in town or nearby.

As far as the cards a collector "should" own - there's only one set of criteria that needs to be met, and it's your own!  "Do I like this deck?  Can I afford this deck?  Is the deck well-made?"  There's no special set of decks a collector should get - in fact, NEVER buy a deck solely because you THINK you should get it because collectors buy it.  Most collectors can tell you stories about some of the terrible choices we made in the early days of our hobby, decks that hardly get touched anymore, because we thought we had to get them to be collectors.

Never buy a deck solely because you think you can sell it for more.
Never buy a deck solely because the other guys have it.
Never buy a deck solely because it's rare.
ALWAYS buy a deck because you like it and can afford it.

For the dollar amount you set for your shopping trip, you're going to want to get mostly current, recent releases.  Older deck are OK only if they aren't selling a high aftermarket prices (higher than the manufacturer's suggested retail price, or MSRP).

Buy decks for PRACTICE, something cheap but at least adequately made.  If you're a cardist, you're going to make mistakes as you learn tougher moves, and you'll be less heartbroken over creasing a common card from a deck like Bicycle Standard than you would over creasing a card from some limited-edition, moderate-to-expensive designer deck.  I perform magic, and I learned quickly to stop using my collectible decks in performance because they get ruined much more quickly than under other circumstances.

Most importantly - don't forget to enjoy your trip while you look for decks to add to your collection!
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2014, 11:08:41 AM »
 

ryan9112

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thanks for your help, but is ebay a good place to shop for cards? i mean i can buy a deck and he would have in the description slightly used, and the cards would all be bad. can i trust them? btw not a big online buyer...because in lebanon if you purchased smthg online shipping fee alone would cost around 40$ so not an online buyer
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2014, 11:16:05 AM »
 

ryan9112

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btw the card list i have so far is....:Bicycle Poker Size Standard Index Playing Cards, 12 Deck Player's Pack
2)Theory11 Monarch Playing Cards, Silver, 3.5 X 2.5-Inch
3)The Blue Gaff Deck - Over 40 Magic Tricks Can Be Performed with This Deck
4)Bicycle Archangels Playing Cards
5)Bicycle Guardians Playing Cards
6)Theory11 Monarch Playing Cards (Black, 3.5 x 2.5-Inch)
7)Rounders Playing Cards Deck by Daniel Madison and Ellusionist [Black Backs]
8) White Rounders Playing Cards Deck by Daniel Madison and Ellusionist
all of these are there exact names on amazon if you care to check them out
my questions: are nb 4 and 5 worth it? or can i find better. if so tell me about better cards
is the gaff deck worth it (not a big magician) i just love manipulating card movements
should i get two monarchs?
also what are some nice borderless cards (i want atleast 1 in my collection).
also i am thinking of getting the jaqk theory 11. is it worth it
pls feel free to recommend cards for me to buy.
thanks
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2014, 01:47:58 PM »
 

Anthony

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Welcome Ryan  :)

I'll  have to side with Don's comments to answer your latestest post. .There are so many personal opinions involved in "Is it beter" or "Is it worth it" It really depends on you, I will say, if you not into magic, or just starting out, I wouldn't pick up a gaff deck. If you decide to persue learning a little magic, start with some basics and move onto the Gaff deck later.

All the decks you've listed are poplular with someone, lol....some more than others.

I know that's not really answering your questions but it is a very "Personal" thing. As you read the posts on this forum you'll see one mans garbage is another mans treasure...........and that's perfectly fine.

I woulod take Don's recomendation on the practice decks and then spend some time looking around at the sites Don listed and get a good idea of what's out there and you'll start to see what appeals to you soon enough  ;)
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2014, 01:12:30 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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btw the card list i have so far is....:Bicycle Poker Size Standard Index Playing Cards, 12 Deck Player's Pack
2)Theory11 Monarch Playing Cards, Silver, 3.5 X 2.5-Inch
3)The Blue Gaff Deck - Over 40 Magic Tricks Can Be Performed with This Deck
4)Bicycle Archangels Playing Cards
5)Bicycle Guardians Playing Cards
6)Theory11 Monarch Playing Cards (Black, 3.5 x 2.5-Inch)
7)Rounders Playing Cards Deck by Daniel Madison and Ellusionist [Black Backs]
8) White Rounders Playing Cards Deck by Daniel Madison and Ellusionist
all of these are there exact names on amazon if you care to check them out
my questions: are nb 4 and 5 worth it? or can i find better. if so tell me about better cards
is the gaff deck worth it (not a big magician) i just love manipulating card movements
should i get two monarchs?
also what are some nice borderless cards (i want atleast 1 in my collection).
also i am thinking of getting the jaqk theory 11. is it worth it
pls feel free to recommend cards for me to buy.
thanks

Sorry to hear the shipping is so costly.

Well, you read what Anthony said, I hope?  Gaff cards are only good if you have a decent knowledge of sleight-of-hand to start with, with only a few rare exceptions.  A better deck, if you're interested in starting to learn some magic, would be a "stripper deck", sometimes called a miracle deck or a Wizard deck.  It's one of the basic decks all beginner magicians experiment with because it allows you to accomplish feats of magic with ease that would normally require years of skill.  There's also many books and DVDs on the topic of using stripper decks.  Buy one in the Bicycle deck design - they're easy to find and inexpensive without being inferior quality.  A pack will cost about $7, give or take.

You need not include the measurements of your decks.  In the US and most of the world, a standard deck, sometimes called a poker deck or a wide deck, is 2.5 inches wide by 3.5 inches tall.  It's the most common size.  Next most common is called bridge deck, or a narrow deck, is 2.25 inches wide and the same height.  The narrow cards make games like bridge easier - you have to hold 13 cards in your hands at once in bridge.  Anyone with small hands may prefer bridge decks as well.  The overwhelming majority of collectible playing cards are poker decks.

Silver and Black Monarchs are nice cards - a simple design, using standard faces, though recolored and if I'm not mistaken with some metallic inks as well.  They're still available at original retail, not being rare or limited edition decks.  Theory11 not only makes the Monarchs, they also make the Guardians and the Archangels as well.  I personally like the Guardians because they used a really nice color scheme for the faces and the backs are reminiscent of the standard Bicycle deck (often called the Rider Back deck because that's the name of the back design) but are more bold looking.  The only caveat I could offer regarding Guardians and Archangels is that they use imagery from Christianity, and I have no idea how well or poorly Christianity is received where you live - so bear that in mind.

There's a number of borderless deck designs you could try, but before you go getting all the exotic decks, try getting some Bee decks in their most basic design, the Diamond Back.  It's the most commonly available design of the Bee deck and can be found in ordinary shops like grocery stores and pharmacies - any place that sells a lot of consumer goods has a fair chance of having some in stock.  What I personally like about the design is that when you spread the cards in a fan, the cards create an effect that's almost like an optical illusion - you have a harder time knowing where one card ends and another card begins!  That, and they're cheaper than custom decks.  Some cardists like practicing with them because of the thicker paper stock used, but for actual performances they're not as impressive looking exactly because of that optical illusion effect I mentioned.

A deck you haven't mentioned but might wish to consider is the basic Tally Ho deck.  It comes in red and blue, and in two different back designs, the Circle Back and the Fan Back.  Many magicians like the Circle Back because they feel the design is more attractive - but another reason might be that there's a hidden one-way mark in the design, making them very useful for certain types of magic.  Either design, however, is very good for cardistry - they're the preferred deck of many cardists.  The only thing about Tally Ho decks that make them hard to find is that USPC considers it a "regional" deck, meaning they only sell it in a certain part of the country.  The region is within the borders of New York City - and that's it!  You can also find them at magic shops and retailers that specialize in playing cards, but you won't find them at any other kind of retail store outside of New York, not even in the suburbs of New York.  They're reasonably priced - in fact, compared to most collectible decks, they're downright cheap.  But the stock and finish combination make them the most popular go-to deck for cardists, and a number of magicians both well-known and unknown are fond of using them as well.

You have to remember one thing about EVERYTHING I just said above.  This is strictly my own opinion.  There's not a single hard fact about what cards you should and shouldn't buy - anyone who says otherwise is lying to you!  You might agree with me completely, or you might think my preferences are ridiculous and you hate what I've chosen or suggested.  Odds are, you'll feel somewhere in between the two extremes.

Evaluate cards for yourself.  Get opinions, sure, but make some of your own while you're at it.

Oh, and about that brick of Bicycle decks you want (a box of a dozen decks is called a brick in industry terminology)...  Depending on where you buy them - what store and what part of the country - they could end up being as little as $1.25 per deck by the dozen, or even $3 or $4 each, or more.  (In other words, it will consume much of your budget.)  In New York, a single pack of Bicycles in most stores will retail for over $4 a pack and there's no discount for buying a dozen.  To get them cheap, go to more rural areas of the country and go to "big box" stores like Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, etc.  A members-only store like Costco or Sam's Club will also offer a brick of Bicycles at a very discounted price - but you have to purchase a membership before you can go shopping in such stores.  See if anyone you're visiting has a membership and perhaps they'll take you shopping.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2014, 06:10:23 PM »
 

ryan9112

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thank you both for your help. they have been insightful. i also looked up a few websites and i saw the ellusionists website. i am thinking of buying the 12 deck bundle that comes with a box. is the box nice and worth it? also i saw a few videos of virtuoso marketing saying they are perfect for flourishing, it that true or just advertisment lies? if so should i buy them. note (all opinions are taken in consideration so feel free to express)
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2014, 02:33:28 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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thank you both for your help. they have been insightful. i also looked up a few websites and i saw the ellusionists website. i am thinking of buying the 12 deck bundle that comes with a box. is the box nice and worth it? also i saw a few videos of virtuoso marketing saying they are perfect for flourishing, it that true or just advertisment lies? if so should i buy them. note (all opinions are taken in consideration so feel free to express)

Ellusionist makes some great decks - if you can put together a package you really like, go for it.  I recently picked up some of their marked Bicycle Series 1800 decks.  The Master Series decks are especially good - the stock is thicker than you'd get with ordinary Bicycle decks and they're covered with Performance Coating.  PerfCoat, also called "Magic Finish" by some deck producers, is USPC's special coating designed for better longevity and more slip and glide.

The Virtuoso deck was produced by a group called The Virts - they're expert cardists, so they probably know what they're talking about.  I have some of the first design and I like them a lot.  But bear in mind that they're totally sold out - if you find them, it'll be for higher prices than the original retail, perhaps even a lot higher.

Whenever you want to get a feel for what an out-of-print deck is worth at present, go to ebay.com and search all recently completed listing (not the currently-active ones) and see what people have been paying for the past month or so - longer if there's fewer sales to be found.  This is a pretty good barometer for deciding what you should pay for one right now.  Check soon before you're going to buy - prices may fluctuate up or down so you don't want to be using old information to value a deck.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2014, 07:51:03 AM »
 

ryan9112

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thank you so much for educating me. i am a fan but a young fan so all this knowledge and terminology are new to me. and i wanted to ask you. right now the ellusionist website has that 12 pack bundl, is it possible that this bundle may no longer be available during the summer time?
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2014, 07:54:47 AM »
 

ryan9112

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i have 1 more question. where in this forum do i ask about cardistry you know like tips or like askin the pros (besides here:P)
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2014, 09:05:40 AM »
 

ryan9112

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also one more thing (last thing promise) should i in ur profeesional opinion as both cardist and collector, use my black shadow masters for cardistry or is it better to keep them unintact
thank you
 

Re: Hello
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2014, 01:28:28 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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thank you so much for educating me. i am a fan but a young fan so all this knowledge and terminology are new to me. and i wanted to ask you. right now the ellusionist website has that 12 pack bundl, is it possible that this bundle may no longer be available during the summer time?

While Ellusionist hasn't announced an end-date for the offer, it's possible that offers like that can change or be canceled over time.  I've seen this take place a few times.  There's no way to know for sure until summer returns in the Northern Hemisphere.

i have 1 more question. where in this forum do i ask about cardistry you know like tips or like askin the pros (besides here:P)

We have a board called the Magical Cardistry Bonanza.  Direct all cardistry questions there.

also one more thing (last thing promise) should i in ur profeesional opinion as both cardist and collector, use my black shadow masters for cardistry or is it better to keep them unintact
thank you

I think you meant to say "keep them intact".  I'm not sure "unintact" is even a word.  If you meant to keep them preserved and unused, than yes, you mean "intact".

I am the kind of guy who will open almost any deck, even ones that are exceptionally rare and valuable.  The only ones I haven't had the courage to open are my still-sealed vintage decks.

Shadow Masters are a common deck, presently still for sale and in print.  When Ellisionist runs low, they make more.  It's not a limited edition.  There's no good reason why you shouldn't use them, though I will point out that al-black decks tend to get shabby-looking a little faster than white-bordered decks - the surface of the card tends to chip away at the edges with handling and shuffling, which in this case means the black-inked portion of the paper chips away to reveal the white underneath.  A common solution for this is to take a felt-tipped marker pen and color in the edges of each card individually - it's often called "Sharpie-ing a deck" because Sharpie is a commonly-used marker brand.  My preference for such work is a black "Marks-A-Lot" marker pen - the paper turns a deeper shade of black.

There have been only two regularly-stocked common decks that Ellusionist ever took out of circulation - the all-white-pip version of the Bicycle Black Tigers and the silver-and-red-pip version of the Tally Ho Viper.  The reason they did it was that sales had dropped dramatically for both styles.  Each deck had a "sister" style that's still available - the red-and-white-pip Bicycle Black Tigers and the all-silver-pip Tally Ho.  In the case of each of those decks, there was a LOT of advance warning about it and I think they even discounted the decks to clear out the remaining stock they had.  I was sad to see them go, but they were carefully picked - I'm thinking that the Black Tigers were popular with magicians, who would need the traditional two-color deck for performing, while the Vipers were popular with cardists, who thought the all-silver version look better for their flourishes.  Tally Ho decks have always been popular with cardists.

To summarize, if Ellusionist stops making a common, still-in-stock deck, you'll probably know about it long before it happens.  (Especially if you stick around here long enough!)
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/