Author (Read 24593 times)

bhong · « **Reply #75 on:** November 16, 2014, 06:28:47 PM »

Quote from: PrincessTrouble on November 16, 2014, 12:48:03 PM

If I had my druthers, the gilded deck would have been the only limited one (discounting the wooden boxed one). I would have loved to have one (I have no gilded decks yet and I actually made it through Amazon checkout and got the receipt for the tier with the gilded version but then Kickstarter said the tier was sold out, grrrr!), but I really, really wish the standard/basic Scarlett wasn't limited. I would have loved to get at least half a brick because I think it's gorgeous and I would like to actually USE it and play cards with it.

Not to side track, but if you get the chance, grab a deck or two of the Aladdin 1002 which are a gilded deck by USPCC. I believe you should be able to find them for not much more than a standard deck of cards (4-6$ range plus S&H).

I'm glad this deck was funded, but can it be April 2015 already? I'd love to finally have these cards printed and ready to be shipped out.

Fess · « **Reply #76 on:** November 16, 2014, 06:43:02 PM »

To continue the Side Track because, that's what we do here haha. The gilding on the Aladdins makes them a little clumpity clump. Really gotta work them out a bit before it relaxes and it never completely goes away. They do clump much less over time though haha. Just my experience with them. Agree a great deck to add to collections and play with.

bamabenz · « **Reply #77 on:** November 16, 2014, 09:37:07 PM »

I got both gilded Aladdins and Ramblers. The corners are chopped at 45 degrees. Very visible clamp marks.
They are interesting, but more curiosities rather than something special.

/bama

Don Boyer · « **Reply #78 on:** November 16, 2014, 09:54:17 PM »

Jackson, you're absolutely right in saying that you have every right to follow your bliss and make exactly the kinds of decks that your customers are happy to pay for.

There's an undeniable fact, though - Kings Wild has been leading the industry not simply in finely-made decks but also in terms of pricing and project complexity. I invented the term "deck fatigue" not long after you launched the second Federal 52 series. The completist collector ends up blowing three figures on some of your projects, due solely to the number of different decks in some of your projects. You introduced us to the $15 deck (domestic shipping included). This is a wonderful thing for you, but many people have seen your prices, got that light-bulb-over-the-head moment and thought they could get rich quick by making playing cards. Some really, really crappy playing cards. You had no control over this happening, and it isn't your fault. It's simply a side effect of your success. Because of this "halo effect" and the enthusiasm of your fan base, you have started to steer the custom deck segment of the playing card market to a certain degree, for well or ill.

It sounds corny, perhaps even stupid, but I think what some of us are trying to say is, "With great power comes great responsibility."

You felt that "Silver Arrows" was a failure - had it been simplified by not having a tough-to-obtain deck, I feel it would have succeeded. Note I didn't say "more expensive", just more difficult to obtain - which in the end will add up to more expensive in the secondary market. If the second deck was as common and easy-to-obtain as the first, the project would have been a screaming success, I feel. But those are just the opinions of a single person - who knows what could have happened? No one, really.

And with that note, everyone, I'd like to do one of two things:
1) end the tangent and move on, or
2) break this tangent off and move it somewhere else, probably my old topic about pretty much this same chain of thought.

What happens is up to you. Jackson, I'll do 2) regardless if you request it, since we have seriously hijacked your topic. I did back your project for two decks and I can only imagine that Scarlett will find it very touching as she grows older that her daddy loved her enough to dedicate an awesome deck of playing cards after her. I know of extremely few people who can say that!

Bama, Fes, Bhong - Guys - Ramblers? Aladdins? Don't we have topics about them? If not, MAKE THEM! We've done enough damage here!

JacksonRobinson · « **Reply #79 on:** November 16, 2014, 10:22:17 PM »

I feel no need to continue but I understand your point completely. However I would like to make sure that you are aware of the facts. I did not introduce the $15 deck at all. None of my standard decks have been anything over $12. The only deck that was set at $15 was the Army Premium and it was not the standard deck. You may give that award to someone else. My prices have been reasonable and steadfast from the beginning.

Standard Decks Including Shipping
Fed 52 $11
Gold Cert $11
White Reserve $12
Silver Cert $12
Baker Street $12
Holmes $12
Moriarty $12
Hounds $12
Crown Standard $12
Continental Standard $12
Standard Army $10

other decks that have been above this price point have been much higher in production cost and also NON standard.

Rob Wright · « **Reply #80 on:** November 16, 2014, 10:22:40 PM »

For those of you that I met at the 52+ con, probably noticed my GF has red hair. So I may be a little partial to red.
I really think this is a beautiful deck. This may be my favorite JR deck to date. I didn't get the tier I wanted, but I will own a few of these decks. So I'm happy.

1,000th post

Card Player · « **Reply #81 on:** November 16, 2014, 11:01:41 PM »

Quote

There's an undeniable fact, though - Kings Wild has been leading the industry not simply in finely-made decks but also in terms of pricing and project complexity. I invented the term "deck fatigue" not long after you launched the second Federal 52 series. The completist collector ends up blowing three figures on some of your projects, due solely to the number of different decks in some of your projects. You introduced us to the $15 deck (domestic shipping included). This is a wonderful thing for you, but many people have seen your prices, got that light-bulb-over-the-head moment and thought they could get rich quick by making playing cards. Some really, really crappy playing cards. You had no control over this happening, and it isn't your fault. It's simply a side effect of your success. Because of this "halo effect" and the enthusiasm of your fan base, you have started to steer the custom deck segment of the playing card market to a certain degree, for well or ill.

@ Don: I'm sorry to continue this. If I may add my 2 cents.

Jackson's (KWP's) impact on the industry is really a glass half empty, glass half full hypothesis.

On one hand you could look at it (glass half empty) and say the light bulb came on for those looking to get rich quick. As a result more crap has flooded the playing card market.

OR

You can look at it (glass half full), that the playing card market is trending and people were going to try to get rich quick anyway by producing more crap. Jackson provides collectors with a better option for investing their money.

bamabenz · « **Reply #82 on:** November 16, 2014, 11:32:16 PM »

Quote from: Rob Wright on November 16, 2014, 10:22:40 PM

For those of you that I met at the 52+ con, probably noticed my GF has red hair. So I may be a little partial to red.
I really think this is a beautiful deck. This may be my favorite JR deck to date. I didn't get the tier I wanted, but I will own a few of these decks. So I'm happy.

Be careful Rob. I ended-up marrying my redheaded GF.

/bama

bhong · « **Reply #83 on:** November 16, 2014, 11:41:31 PM »

I think it's hard to just blame one person for anything that happens in the playing card world.

Cost of everything goes up and if that happens, unfortunately, a business has to pass that onto the consumers as they can't afford to bare it all without going out of business. A business is out to produce an amazing product, but ultimate they have to make a profit doing it. As far as I know, Jackson has always priced his work accordingly for what he does. I think the thing is that most of his decks have everything (nice paper stock, emboss, foil, inside printing) and all that is expensive.

As for the 15$ deck, I believe Dan and Dave has the Bruce Lee deck last year for 15$ not to mention the Stranger and Stranger deck for 25$ for awhile now and 12$ Arrco Tahoe. Then there was the 18$ Mana (v1) on CARC's site when they were released. Then Ellusionist has their 15$ for the limited edition Madison Hustlers. Art of Play had 12$ for the Exquisite Bold. As for limited run decks, there have been the Zenith, Red (tuck) Whispering Imps, Black Empire Bloodlines, Ornate Obsidians, 52+J deck are all pretty pricey, but extremely beautiful decks. I believe all of Albino Dragon's recent licensed decks have been 15$ on Kickstarter including domestic shipping. I'm in no way faulting any company for what they do, but I wanted to list and point out others have also created decks that have been costly, too.

It sucks that it cost more, but equally, it's understandable and I think it's hard to just lay the blame on one person no matter how many decks they've produced and designed.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #84 on:** November 16, 2014, 11:56:51 PM »

Quote from: JacksonRobinson on November 16, 2014, 10:22:17 PM

I feel no need to continue but I understand your point completely. However I would like to make sure that you are aware of the facts. I did not introduce the $15 deck at all. None of my standard decks have been anything over $12. The only deck that was set at $15 was the Army Premium and it was not the standard deck. You may give that award to someone else. My prices have been reasonable and steadfast from the beginning.

Standard Decks Including Shipping
Fed 52 $11
Gold Cert $11
White Reserve $12
Silver Cert $12
Baker Street $12
Holmes $12
Moriarty $12
Hounds $12
Crown Standard $12
Continental Standard $12
Standard Army $10

other decks that have been above this price point have been much higher in production cost and also NON standard.

I looked and you are indeed correct. I must have mixed up the projects that were out around that time. So who was it with the first $15 deck? Do you guys know? PM me if you find out.

troy · « **Reply #85 on:** November 17, 2014, 06:17:28 AM »

Quote from: JacksonRobinson on November 16, 2014, 01:15:43 AM

My decision to run the Scarlett Tally Hos how I am, actually had nothing to do what the after market does or might do with my decks. Sure tons of people made money of the Feds and other decks of mine in the after market. I didn't really care one way or the other, I for sure wasn't ever upset or felt like I was getting jipped out of possible income. I was happy that I was getting to design cards for a living.

The structure of the Scarlett Tally Hos has 100% to do with what the people that allow me to design cards for a living wanted and spoke loud and clear with the voices and wallets. Sure I would love to produce a $5 deck but the reality is it will not be the deck that I want it to be.

What about including unlimited display deck purchases with your decks? Wouldn't this help economies of scale? It would help get more of your artwork out there and people using the cards more. A nice tuck is nice, but $5 display decks would be great. Do you think display desk hurt limited edition decks?

JacksonRobinson · « **Reply #86 on:** November 17, 2014, 10:49:08 AM »

Quote from: Don Boyer on November 16, 2014, 11:56:51 PM

Quote from: JacksonRobinson on November 16, 2014, 10:22:17 PM
I feel no need to continue but I understand your point completely. However I would like to make sure that you are aware of the facts. I did not introduce the $15 deck at all. None of my standard decks have been anything over $12. The only deck that was set at $15 was the Army Premium and it was not the standard deck. You may give that award to someone else. My prices have been reasonable and steadfast from the beginning.

Standard Decks Including Shipping
Fed 52 $11
Gold Cert $11
White Reserve $12
Silver Cert $12
Baker Street $12
Holmes $12
Moriarty $12
Hounds $12
Crown Standard $12
Continental Standard $12
Standard Army $10

other decks that have been above this price point have been much higher in production cost and also NON standard.

I looked and you are indeed correct. I must have mixed up the projects that were out around that time. So who was it with the first $15 deck? Do you guys know? PM me if you find out.

I might be wrong but I think Pedal was the first $15 deck and that was months before I came onto the scene.

BiggerDee · « **Reply #87 on:** November 17, 2014, 01:37:57 PM »

Jackson, you've had my support 100% on every card (and currency) project that you have released, including this one, and you will continue to do so.

Folks, I like Lamborghinis. That doesn't mean that I will sell everything to get them, I will just lovingly dream from afar. I don't have to have every single thing that I want, nor does anyone else. People don't have to be so bitter about a deck being so exclusive or priced beyond what their particular budget will allow. Use your valuable time to enjoy what you have, not be bitter about what you don't. Don't let things control your life or happiness. If you can't obtain a KWP Scarlett in a wood case, then enjoy your Federal 52! It's all phenomenal work, and Jackson's heart, dreams, and talent on every deck, especially for you! Respect and appreciate that, regardless if it's the most common deck that he makes, or the most exclusive!

I was able to snag a gilded deck and a friend pledged for a standard tier for me, and I am looking forward to these. I wanted the top version, but I was helping a friend move and missed my calendar reminder for the launch. I was luck to get a gilded, there were only two left when I logged in. I am a serious collector (modern releases), especially of the ultra-rare editions of decks. I'm not unhappy because I didn't score the top tier deck (as it stands, that will be the only one of JR's decks that I don't have at least one of), I'm thrilled with what I have. I may find an affordable one for sale down the road but if I don't, that's ok, I'll survive and be happy, and will eagerly anticipate the next JR/KW release! He's working very hard to provide us with a stellar quality deck with art far and above the Bikes that were our only option not that long ago, all at an affordable price. I for one truly appreciate that, and show my support with my wallet. Kudos, Jackson...as long as you have those super-limited coming out, I will definitely be in line for them! I would love to have the talent to produce art so beautiful that people are clamoring to get it but alas, I'm still trying to perfect simply signing my name, from art in kindergarten! ;-)

In a nutshell, buy to have fun and be happy, whether you use the cards, or lock them away in a safe. When the fun disappears from your purchases, it may be time to reconsider what you are doing.

<eternal optimist rant off, soapbox stowed away>

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #88 on:** November 17, 2014, 09:00:52 PM »

@Jackson - You are right. Pedale was the first $100,000 big dog deck. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1537415287/a-deck-of-playing-cards-by-pedale-design

He did fulfill his backers. That was a challenge.

I remember you when you first came on the scene Jackson. http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=4311.0;topicseen

I'll go ahead and say it. You will change the way ppl will play with cards in the next hundred years. I just know it, but do know cards have been around for 600 years. Also, you can't please everyone. You said it best... Always hear, but don't aways listen....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A19q7rysLs

Don Boyer · « **Reply #89 on:** November 18, 2014, 01:10:52 AM »

Quote from: JacksonRobinson on November 17, 2014, 10:49:08 AM

I might be wrong but I think Pedal was the first $15 deck and that was months before I came onto the scene.

No, you're on the money! As Russell stated before me, the Pedale Design/Misc. Goods Co. deck was the first KS deck to sell for $15 and the first deck project to break the $100,000 funding mark. I think it was still the best-funded deck until the first Federal 52 project came along.

I do apologize, you're absolutely correct in that your pricing has been more reasonable than some if not most and that you aren't at the top end of the cost scale most of the time. This deck would be the sole exception to date, where the base model was more expensive than the majority of KS decks made, but it's also a case where the grand total of all the decks in all the models are slated to be made in a print run of fewer than 1,000.

10ofclubs · « **Reply #90 on:** November 18, 2014, 06:37:49 PM »

Good God, the posts in this topic are long. Any news on what will happen during the remainder of the campaign since no more decks will be sold?

PurpleIce · « **Reply #91 on:** November 18, 2014, 11:06:01 PM »

Quote from: 10ofclubs on November 18, 2014, 06:37:49 PM

Good God, the posts in this topic are long. Any news on what will happen during the remainder of the campaign since no more decks will be sold?

I'll just quote JR from his project update

"First off I must say that the turn out of support for this project has been dumbfounding to me. I never imagined that EVERY slot available would be taken within the first 48 hours.

That leads me to what you are probably asking now, What's next? What acts are you going to do for the next 28 days, you circus monkey to entertain us.

Now that we have I strong base of backers I want you guys to help lead what is next. I have a few ideas and concepts I'm working on but ultimately I want you guys to voice your opinions.

I have some interesting ideas and thoughts but would like to hear what everyones thoughts are, so have at it. Please leave your comments below of some ideas you might have for the rest of the project.

I only have one basic parameter on the conversation though.

I am not going to add more decks to the existing print runs. What is happens next will be for everyone and only for those who are already backing the project. I don't plan on adding any more tiers or pledge slots. If anything is added it will be treated as an addon and not a new tier."

BiggerDee · « **Reply #92 on:** November 19, 2014, 10:41:13 AM »

I must admit that I'm looking forward to what goodies that JR will pull out of his hat for this one! There have been some really good suggestions in the comments.

PurpleIce · « **Reply #93 on:** November 19, 2014, 10:54:54 PM »

Quote from: BiggerDee on November 19, 2014, 10:41:13 AM

I must admit that I'm looking forward to what goodies that JR will pull out of his hat for this one! There have been some really good suggestions in the comments.

There is a voting process going on now i believe for all backers.

A) Display Deck
B & C) Some Art Print or something. Don't really care.

Please vote A......

piratebear81 · « **Reply #94 on:** November 19, 2014, 11:25:12 PM »

Display decks are nice but I voted for prints. The way I see it is I pledged for 2 decks so if I wanted to play with one deck I just open one and keep one. Value of sealed deck goes up. Its a win win for me.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #95 on:** November 20, 2014, 12:51:37 AM »

A is "useable" decks.
B is an art poster.
C is an art print - like B but fancier and suitable for framing.

I went for them in the order presented; A, B and C.

This is going to be a rather unusual project from this point out. There will be no new backers unless someone backs out, so the only way to breathe more money into the project would be by enticing the present backers to spend more money... I can't say I've seen a project like this before.

Fess · « **Reply #96 on:** November 20, 2014, 01:54:05 AM »

Quote from: Don Boyer on November 20, 2014, 12:51:37 AM

This is going to be a rather unusual project from this point out. There will be no new backers unless someone backs out, so the only way to breathe more money into the project would be by enticing the present backers to spend more money... I can't say I've seen a project like this before.

I haven't seen one like this before either. It's an interesting experiment. Looking forward to how it plays out.

It has to be a fun problem to be faced with. I have never seen another Playing Card Kickstarter sell out entirely before. What bigger compliment could there be?

Don Boyer · « **Reply #97 on:** November 20, 2014, 07:55:48 AM »

Quote from: Fes on November 20, 2014, 01:54:05 AM

Quote from: Don Boyer on November 20, 2014, 12:51:37 AM
This is going to be a rather unusual project from this point out. There will be no new backers unless someone backs out, so the only way to breathe more money into the project would be by enticing the present backers to spend more money... I can't say I've seen a project like this before.

I haven't seen one like this before either. It's an interesting experiment. Looking forward to how it plays out.

It has to be a fun problem to be faced with. I have never seen another Playing Card Kickstarter sell out entirely before. What bigger compliment could there be?

I've seen sellouts before - Bicycle Emperor was one, Bohemia was another. But in both cases, they simply made a new deck with a different color as the "unlimited version" and continued racking up sales. Jackson's specifically catering to a market of people who are all about the rare and the collectible - 491 individuals. How far will they be able to take this project? No one knows, yet - as you said, it's an interesting experiment.

Will W. · « **Reply #98 on:** November 20, 2014, 08:24:01 AM »

Quote from: Don Boyer on November 20, 2014, 07:55:48 AM

Quote from: Fes on November 20, 2014, 01:54:05 AM
Quote from: Don Boyer on November 20, 2014, 12:51:37 AM
This is going to be a rather unusual project from this point out. There will be no new backers unless someone backs out, so the only way to breathe more money into the project would be by enticing the present backers to spend more money... I can't say I've seen a project like this before.

I haven't seen one like this before either. It's an interesting experiment. Looking forward to how it plays out.

It has to be a fun problem to be faced with. I have never seen another Playing Card Kickstarter sell out entirely before. What bigger compliment could there be?

I've seen sellouts before - Bicycle Emperor was one, Bohemia was another. But in both cases, they simply made a new deck with a different color as the "unlimited version" and continued racking up sales. Jackson's specifically catering to a market of people who are all about the rare and the collectible - 491 individuals. How far will they be able to take this project? No one knows, yet - as you said, it's an interesting experiment.

The problem with this whole Ultra Limited campaign is that it has alienated many of his loyal costumers who, for whatever reason, did not get in on this. I understand the limited decks but I think an unlimited or maybe just less limited version should have been made available as well. Mayhaps minus the bells and whistles but some version of it for all would have been great. Not to mention it would have bolstered his sales that much more.
Think about how many companies offer multiple versions of their products to procure as many consumers as they can from as many demographics as they can.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #99 on:** November 20, 2014, 08:39:17 AM »

Quote from: Will W. on November 20, 2014, 08:24:01 AM

The problem with this whole Ultra Limited campaign is that it has alienated many of his loyal costumers who, for whatever reason, did not get in on this. I understand the limited decks but I think an unlimited or maybe just less limited version should have been made available as well. Mayhaps minus the bells and whistles but some version of it for all would have been great. Not to mention it would have bolstered his sales that much more.
Think about how many companies offer multiple versions of their products to procure as many consumers as they can from as many demographics as they can.

The whole idea's been beaten to death in the previous posts on this topic.

It's simple - money talks. His loyal, money-spending customers wanted a release that fit this pattern, so he chose this pattern. It's a matter of time to see how successful it is for him - it's looking pretty successful so far, considering that it's completely sold out. It's in how well he'll be able to target his audience with add-ons, talking them into increasing their pledges.