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Regal

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Regal
« on: November 11, 2014, 04:09:11 PM »
 

Jonnypowpow

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Hey all I've just recently started a new deck with Gambler's Warehouse and I was hoping you guys would take a look at it and give me your thoughts so far. I'd like to post more in the near future as they are working on a rendering for the tuck and what not here but I'd like to at least get some opinions on a few of the courts and AOS if you have a sec. Thanks a ton for your time and input!

All the best,

John

 

Re: Regal
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2014, 02:17:08 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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First - that's a fantastic Ace.

Second - the sizing looks a little off on the courts, bodies appear too large for the heads.

Third - you've got some really nice art going on here; that background pattern seems like more of a distraction from the art.  How would it look without that?  The Ace is exceptionally busy, like what you'd find on a hundred-year-old deck or older.  The background pattern adds nothing to it at all, drawing attention away from the fine details.  I know it's been a recently-popular trend to have backgrounds, but it's often unnecessary.

Fourth - if you do lose the background, you can push the indices further into the corner, allowing for cards to be held more tightly squeezed together in someone's hand.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 02:19:45 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Regal
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2014, 02:46:43 AM »
 

Will W.

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I personally like the courts and the background.  I agree with Don that the AOS is awesome. Would really love to see the card back.
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Re: Regal
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2014, 01:12:40 PM »
 

Fess

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Welcome to The Discourse! I love your work. ;D

Size inconsistency is what jumps out at me on the courts, it's not as dramatic as the chubby kings on occults and double blacks though. Second thing that jumps at me is the size of the font on the indices. The pip size is a little large as well, but not as kapow as the font for my eyes.

I love that you put the keys in the AoS. I like the watermarks on these, they sell the mirror. :) I can't help but wonder how you're going to have the suicide king do his thing haha.
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Re: Regal
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2014, 02:18:41 PM »
 

Jonnypowpow

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Thanks lads. I'm genuinely really grateful for the warm welcome as well as the input on these.

So far I'm really thinking I will drop the background and adjust the tops to match the sides so they are closer to the edges by moving out the indicies and removing the circular containers that originally held the letter of the court. I've done a few like that and feel it looks much cleaner and is a better looking court without the background and tighter fit. Great advice thanks guys!

I think the bodies may look too large as we're not accustomed to seeing them stretched any further than what they are on the standard courts so seeing them a little larger is kind of cool to me seeing just a bit more of the actual picture was what I thought I'd aim for.

I'm still waiting to hear what additionally I can show at this point but I'm glad you guys are seemingly liking what I've got so far.
 

Re: Regal
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2014, 12:44:43 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thanks lads. I'm genuinely really grateful for the warm welcome as well as the input on these.

So far I'm really thinking I will drop the background and adjust the tops to match the sides so they are closer to the edges by moving out the indicies and removing the circular containers that originally held the letter of the court. I've done a few like that and feel it looks much cleaner and is a better looking court without the background and tighter fit. Great advice thanks guys!

I think the bodies may look too large as we're not accustomed to seeing them stretched any further than what they are on the standard courts so seeing them a little larger is kind of cool to me seeing just a bit more of the actual picture was what I thought I'd aim for.

I'm still waiting to hear what additionally I can show at this point but I'm glad you guys are seemingly liking what I've got so far.

The best example that comes to my mind for oversized, frameless courts would be the Magic-Con 2013 deck.
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Re: Regal
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2014, 03:19:31 PM »
 

Jonnypowpow

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Yeah way cool thanks Don. I dig that and really think thats very close to what I'd like to do but push them even closer to the edges like this maybe.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 11:32:24 AM by Jonnypowpow »
 

Re: Regal
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2014, 05:11:57 PM »
 

Fess

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K on the king indices looks like it may be too tight for happy print to my eyes. The courts look very cool pushed out that far :)
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Re: Regal
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2014, 05:26:07 PM »
 

Justin O.

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Really like the design so far, and LOVE that AoS!!

I'm curious about your choice of color? When I think regal I think red and purple, colors that are traditionally associated with royalty. What was behind the decision to use green?
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Re: Regal
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2014, 12:39:54 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Jonny, that does look good.  However, remember something important.

If you're using USPC as your printer for this deck, you don't want to go closer to the edges than what the Bucks did with Magic-Con 2013.  USPC will do their level-headed best to align the backs of the cards while cutting them so they have an equal border all around.  However, they're less picky about the faces as a result, and if you don't leave an adequate margin, you could end up having part of your King on your Queen, part of your Queen on your Jack and so on.  Check with them regarding their limits.

Alternately, Expert and Legends seem to have mastered the alignments on the decks they produce.  I haven't seen a single fail yet.  Front and back, perfectly centered, even with a narrow margin - who'd have thought it, right?  :))
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Re: Regal
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2014, 11:41:38 AM »
 

Jonnypowpow

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@ Don that is interesting. I've never gotten to work with either of them but I've got more than a few decks of each of theirs. I'll talk to Ashly at USPC and see what their tolerances are I've never pushed them this far out before and I'd hate for them to get chopped so great insight thank you.

@Justin O Thanks man I'm excited to see it myself! Green equals wealth, Wealth equals power, Power is wielded by royalty. My thoughts about it but don't think I haven't ruled any of those out. Good eye man!

@Fes hopefully we can get as narrow a border as possible they may have to be adjusted but I would like them to be as close to the printable edge as possible. I personally love a full bleed court like Lee Mckenzie has done with empires but I can see why players dont like them.
 

Re: Regal
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2014, 12:08:26 PM »
 

Fess

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There's no rule anywhere that says you can't full bleed a certain portion of your face card. As a player however, I'd prefer the full bleed area be done on the card where it's the same on every face card. USPCC may not like it so much since a minor printing screw up makes the deck seriously not playable, I on the other hand think it would be cool as hell actually. If you're thinking of full bleed on courts, match it up with numbers and give it a go. I'm sure it would be pretty amazing. I don't know your vision for the deck, just saying if you want to do it. You can Do EET! :D

I didn't mention it before, but I really dig you have the KoD tossin up the horns. 8)
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Re: Regal
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2014, 02:08:31 PM »
 

Collector

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I agree with Don's first comments. But the problematic sizing of courts is the problem of the design not of overall sizes of courts. So, they can be improved by redesign but not by resizing of the whole figures. On the other hand a lot of collectors don't care about such details, so...

Why do they have so many hands?  :)

Good luck.


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Re: Regal
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2014, 06:06:17 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I agree with Don's first comments. But the problematic sizing of courts is the problem of the design not of overall sizes of courts. So, they can be improved by redesign but not by resizing of the whole figures. On the other hand a lot of collectors don't care about such details, so...

Why do they have so many hands?  :)

Good luck.

The biggest culprit in the first court images was the Queen of Clubs - we haven't seen a revised version yet.

He appears to be keeping his courts busy.  "Idle hands" and all that, right?  :))
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Re: Regal
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2014, 02:48:01 PM »
 

Jonnypowpow

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@collector As to why they have two hands I've always felt it was really strange how the standard courts only had one hand in each of them. I wanted my courts to be expanded showing just a bit more and revealing what was in the other hidden hand. I'm a huge fan of the secrets hidden in playing cards whether they exist or not and creating even more.
The queen of diamonds is pointing to the heart on her chest indicating where her real desires lie. I just always think about these things and make up my own stories about each of the courts when designing these and hands seem to often have more ability to express things than their faces which are so often just these blank stares. So more often than not its just me expressing these made up stories I have while spending the hours drawing these so its really more for me than anyone haha. I'm selfish like that.

@fes I'm glad you dig it I had to change it from the original (you can see in my first pic) as I had two left hands in the first version but he was throwing horns in both. I was listening to mastodon when I drew him so he's a little bit more metal than the rest.

@don boyer I see what you're saying about the size of the heads for the queens I think all of them have smaller heads than the jacks or the kings. Whether that was intentional or not I'm not really sure but all of them look like that so they are consistent and I'm not sure if it bothers me enough at this point to change it. It seems like the queens are showing to like the navel and the kings and jacks are only showing to the chest if that makes sense so they are zoomed out a bit more. So I don't know if its really something that bothers everyone I'll change it but for now I'm ok with it.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 02:51:41 PM by Jonnypowpow »
 

Re: Regal
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2014, 09:04:02 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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You should include your stories behind the courts in some way.  They sound cool!
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Re: Regal
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2014, 06:46:37 PM »
 

Jonnypowpow

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Finally got the word from Gambler's I can show these off.
Love to hear your thoughts! Thanks guys.



 

Re: Regal
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2014, 08:17:55 PM »
 

Will W.

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My honest assessment, and take in mind this is just my opinion, is that the card back looks like a pack a cigarettes with the two circular seals..  As for the tuck, the jewel in the middle doesnt seem to fit.  I can see how using a jewel would fit the theme but it doesnt look the same as the rest. It looks as if it were applied as an after thought or plugged in as if you had the idea to use a jewel but didnt get it just right.   JMO
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Re: Regal
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2014, 08:27:05 PM »
 

Fess

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I like the tuck, it looks great.

The card back is giving me a lot of difficulty. I'd like to see the green lines that make the back one way, removed, and the crowns outlined in green like on the tuck face. The full bleed green lines create a bad illusion for me, some lines bend and others want to move. I don't like that at all personally, my vision is bad enough without that making me question my sanity a la "Am I seeing things?". No offense intended, I have a very hard time looking at the card back as is and I could never use the deck. This is a perfect example of Less is more haha.

After cutting away the green lines, I was able to look closer at the card back. The green leafy thingies need to have their spacing fixed a little, they're making it a one way back where the banner intersects. Something a little strange about the field between the Gem and the G in regal that strikes me as odd. I can't put my finger on it at the moment.
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Re: Regal
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2014, 11:32:01 PM »
 

piratebear81

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Looking like a really nice deck.
 

Re: Regal
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2015, 06:30:17 PM »
 

Jonnypowpow

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Well I obviously listened to Fes and adjusted my backs. I'm having an issue now with the colored pips. Do you like the traditional red and black pips or color matched pips?

Well my original plan was to have four decks.
Royal Blue, Purple, Red and Green with corresponding colors of the hearts and diamonds accordingly as well as the clubs and spades in traditional black.




But now I'm thinking of having one multicolored court and red diamonds and hearts and black clubs and spades.
 

Re: Regal
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2015, 12:20:16 AM »
 

Fess

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Thanks for fixing the border! I think there are fans of both, colors and traditional. I like both myself. My opinion is, do what you feel like works for what you originally envisioned. If it was traditional or a color replacing red, go with it. Sometimes it's absolutely best to go with your gut. Okay I'm slightly swayed to colors haha.

Interestingly, which I didn't bring up in my previous post, this card back looks very sharp in the negative image. I think it would make an outstanding light deck as well. Just throwing that out there. If you hadn't considered it and decided to go against your four decks idea. Some colors really jump off white very well, green white gold, purple white gold as examples.
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Re: Regal
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2015, 01:25:16 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Well I obviously listened to Fes and adjusted my backs. I'm having an issue now with the colored pips. Do you like the traditional red and black pips or color matched pips?

Well my original plan was to have four decks.
Royal Blue, Purple, Red and Green with corresponding colors of the hearts and diamonds accordingly as well as the clubs and spades in traditional black.


But now I'm thinking of having one multicolored court and red diamonds and hearts and black clubs and spades.

Traditional red/black is the way to go here.  You're looking at a deck that could have great appeal to card players - this would be nice for an upscale poker game.  As such, you want to keep certain elements very traditional - card suit colors is a prime element you don't want to change.  Keeping the courts uniform from deck color to deck color is also essential - many players use two different decks in play to speed up game play, but they use decks with identical faces on them.  It's simpler for immediate recognition.

Ordinarily I might complain about the lack of white borders on the back and how that can limit magicians in terms of certain tricks they can't perform with that design.  But magicians aren't your key market - collectors and players are more likely.  Collectors love print-to-the-bleed card backs and players won't mind as much either way.  Hell, they might even prefer it so when that dingbat who can't shuffle cards to save his life is dealing, you'll know before the first card hits the table whether he accidentally flipped a card the wrong way!

The one caveat regarding the back borders that I would offer is that whenever a deck prints to the bleed in a solid color, it shows off edge-chipping a LOT more than a white-bordered deck would.  In the course of normal use, especially riffle shuffles and in some cases faro/weave shuffles, tiny chips of the top and bottom layers of paper will come off of the cards - cards don't last forever and will wear out with use.  The chips are tiny, so it's not like you'll see a pile of them on your table, but while a white border will conceal the chipping well due to the white paper underneath, a solid, colored border will make those chips appear much more visible, showing the white underneath as it chips.  The darker the color, the most noticeable the chipping will be.  Black decks fell out of favor for a while because of this, but they're making a bit of a comeback because, well, let's face it - they look cool fresh out of the box!

Lastly, if there are any additional elements that render the deck backs a one-way design, correct them.  Card players won't touch them out of hesitation to be called a cheater.  With a subtle but noticeable one-way back, one could arrange a deck so all the sought-after cards are facing in one direction and the rest are facing the other - a common method used by beginning card cheats.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 01:27:10 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Regal
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2015, 12:31:52 PM »
 

Collector

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IMHO:

Return floral background to aces.

Try to create interesting floral backgrounds for number cards

Try white borders for backs. I think it will be better for this particular decks.

It will be interesting to see arms of all court cards.

Try to make indices smaller and return some backgrounds for them, but made them of rectangular shape.

Embossing is "must have" for tuck cases. Golden inks for tuck case, but not for backs - it's better to immitate gold on them. Metallic colour inks for backs, but not for tuck case. "Regal" and jewels on tuck cases - foil.

Can be interesting. On the other hand - Ornates Playing Cards + D&D's Magic Cone 2013 Deck.

Good luck.



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