Author (Read 4223 times)

Rob Wright · « **on:** December 17, 2014, 10:20:45 PM »

Limited Edition, Perspective Playing Cards Relaunch

~~Limited Edition "Perspective" Playing Cards canceled~~

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2014, 02:05:03 AM »

Cheers Rob!

Beat me to it!

Thanks for the support,

De

PurpleIce · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2014, 03:12:36 AM »

Well....better than the Club 808 Perspective Deck at least.

Rose · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2014, 03:48:54 AM »

This deck is really cool, I especially love the "Shell" deck. The creator De is an especially awesome person too, who has great passion for playing cards! Highly recommend!

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2014, 05:51:40 AM »

Thanks so much guys! Really appreciate it.

De.

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #5 on:** December 22, 2014, 02:12:49 AM »

Win 12 Rare Decks!
To show support to those supporting me I have decided to delve into my own private collection and give away 12 rare decks of cards from my own private collection to one lucky person from those that help spread the word!
Easy to get involved
1. Follow @HudsonDesigned on twitter and retweet the 12 rare decks post.
2. Head on over to http://bit.ly/DeHudson and hit that share button and follow that through
3. Like and follow http://facebook.com/hudsondesignaustralia and post a quick pic there of something pretty that's considered junk or garbage from a different "Perspective" than usual tagged #perspectiveplayingcards
It doesn't have to be complicated, I just want you to look at the world differently for a few seconds is all.
That's It! Easy!

I will choose a winner as soon as the Perspective deck is funded!

Decks are here as pictured and include Gold Private Reserve, Gold Crown, White Monarch, Zen Experimental Prototype, Virtuoso Summer, Black Sky Island, Whispering Imps Special Edition, White LTD, Inverted Kings, Sultan Treasury, Red Arcane and Scarlet Dealers. All from my collection, all bought or obtained by purchase promo all in very good condition from my display cases. Will send where-ever packaged very well but can't guarantee your post guys.

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2014, 08:29:01 PM »

And as a Christmas present we have just passed $4000!

Woo Hoo!

Hope your all having a great holiday period and are overstuffed with Christmas indulgence!

De.

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2015, 06:23:55 AM »

Hey guys!

After a truckload of praise and helpful comments I have a new updated design for the perspective deck. Here is the new design for the Race deck based on repeated comments and advice to make a great thing better here are some of the changes and a new image of the Race Sheet.

1. Simplified and removed all Text from back

2. Removed many of the background repeated circles to accentuate and further stand out the differences of the suit pips. Now clubs, spades, hearts and diamonds are all defined and more noticeably different.

3. Larger Indices for all cards

4. Largest of the Joker text removed

5. After checking out a prototype print the colors were just a little to dark so both the red and the green have been lightened significantly.

Check out the image below and let me know what you all think.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #8 on:** January 03, 2015, 06:59:25 AM »

I'm not a big fan of your design, but I have a few objective observations to offer.

You have a mere twelve days remaining in your project and you're exactly AU$10,300 short at this moment, more than two thirds of your total.

When you radically change a design, you're doing a disservice to some of your backers, specifically the ones who funded the deck the way it originally appeared and aren't as big on the changes you've made.

Making three decks from launch date on your first project is ambitious to say the least.

My recommendation, if you were my client, would be to cancel your Kickstarter now. Retool the deck any which way you want or feel is needed. Examine the cash outlay required to cover ALL aspects of the project - is there any fat to trim? Then, relaunch, but only a SINGLE deck. Make the others as stretch goals, for when you've already locked in the funding for the first.

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2015, 07:13:47 AM »

Don,

100% agree on most aspects. One reason for doing the kickstarter the way is was to garner feedback and see where the design went. The reason for posting the change ideas now was to also allow current backers (most of who are backed at a fairly high level) to cancel if they were not keen on the design changes. I also considered cancelling straight away, but that leaves me in two situations. Backers wondering what the hell happened all of a sudden and also not being able to get feedback on the design changes as easy.

So that was my consideration. Cancel or use the next week or so to see what people think and where it goes. I always knew with the silly season in the middle it was an unlikely sell at 3 decks. But here's the thing. I also did not want to be that project that underfunded and could not follow through. I would always prefer to fail funding than fail fulfillment. It was a massive goal. But had I just funded one deck at a third of that? I would have passed funding in the first week. So it was never about just getting peoples money and printing whatever I felt like.

In the end my personal position might actually be to print one deck myself. Out of pocket then potentially use that as an instant reward to get other decks funded on a project later.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2015, 09:40:25 AM »

If you want feedback, this forum and a few others like it are good places to go, especially as we have a lot of talented and experienced deck designers as members.

If you're concerned about backers wondering what happened, if you take my advice and cancel now, you explain it up front, being as honest and transparent as possible - you want to retool the project and come back with a lean but effective campaign. Most of them will understand and appreciate how you want this project to succeed, for yourself and for your backers.

The way you're going now, it's as if you didn't know what belongs in your deck in the first place and you're wandering around waiting for people to point you in the direction they think you should go. It lacks a solid artistic vision - those are the steps that are supposed to occur BEFORE the project, not during. It's like trying to build a house by making up the blueprints as you go - just tell me the address so I know where NOT to visit, unless I want a good laugh or a serious injury... Worse, this also makes you look like you're using the "design by committee method", sometimes more accurately referred to as the "Mongolian hordes method" of getting things done (or undone, more likely). It's exceptionally rare that something designed by several different people with different ideas and objectives will result in something beautiful or even practical.

Do I exaggerate some? Sure. But not by much. You're practically saying in the previous post that you planned to fail! True enough, since it also looks as if you failed to plan... You're saying it wasn't about getting backer's cash to print what you want. NEWS FLASH! That's EXACTLY what most of the world uses Kickstarter for! "I have an idea for something I want to create - you give me cash to make my idea a reality, I'll give you rewards related to my project based on your generosity - PERIOD." Anything else is wasting your time and that of your backers!

You want to go with personal funding for a deck? More power to you! You'll be facing an uphill battle but it's hardly like you'd be the first person to pull it off.

Like I said, some objective observations. Make of them what you wish.

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2015, 08:10:18 PM »

Don,

Thanks for unlocked the thread again. I completely agree with some of your comments and some I had not considered. But some I do not and just want to clarify my own position. I mean not to argue at all, just to show my own thoughts on the matter.

I am completely aware of your expertise (and others) with the playing card genre and I appreciate it immensely. As you state however the design is not traditional and not for you (and obviously many others) but there is always some middle ground. I have another design I also worked on for a long time that is more traditional and trust me I will be employing your services before showing this one off. But this first design was obviously one thing that was never going to match those traditional ideals.

Feedback, community and exposure is exactly why i'm posting it here.

I have been on the raw end of failed kickstarters and of randomly cancelled kickstarters. Both upsetting backers. I was not going to just do that. I have always been really clear and honest with them all. And have received nothing but praise. I have also let them know that cancelling and retooling the project is an option I am looking at. But for right now I have a bunch of devoted people, all involved, loving the project and loving being part of it. I see it as a waste to just cancel and go back behind doors to produce a "product to sell" later.

Also the backers I do have have liked the designs and continue to do so. Many now sending personal messages and posting very positive comments. All very happy to be involved in the creative process.

So although I appreciate most of what you say Kickstarter by definition is on their own website noted "Kickstarter is a new way to fund creative projects" and "together creators and backers can make projects happen". In kickstarters own words "Being part of this journey is one of the best things about Kickstarter!"

Almost every project I have backed has changed some during the process and most have changed after. I thought it better that any changes that might happen could happen during so backers have a say in the final product and participate in the creative process. One thing to note is kickstarter itself is attempting to get as far away from a "store" selling a finished product as possible. They are actively knocking back some projects that they believe are just a pre-order type process. They are pursuing artistic community driven ideas. Perhaps to maintain that image, perhaps to avoid the issues they are having with non fulfilled projects being so upsetting to backers that believed they just "made a purchase" and did not receive what they paid for.

One major thing I guess to me, that has apparently not been conveyed well enough by myself, is my own artistic process. I live as a community, and my art is most often designed as such. I generally use junk and garbage, and if you check out some of my more major works (admittedly not cards, but humbly, still spectacular) they have a defined and solid artistic direction, but they are still works in progress, until they are finished. I treated this deck as the same. The artistic direction has always been here with this project, but I completely reject that not having a finalized deck design that I refuse to receive feedback on, or even just pre-printed and saying here buy this was a mistake. To me (and to kickstarter it seems) that is the entire concept of Kickstarter, to have a community work together to bring something into existence.

So although I am open to ideas, and feedback. And many ideas I have received from forums here and elsewhere I have taken into account and even used in these updates, there are some elements that I know people just don't like from a traditional standpoint. I know people want me to just use standard pips. I know they want a standard layout. Standard courts. But then what is the deck? Is the option just to design a back and put it on a bicycle deck? I already absolutely hate the concept of decks being printed with bicycle on the tuck just so they "have" to be purchased by bicycle collectors. I intentionally designed something different and wanted feedback to make it better, but not make it conform. So this was and is designed by me. But it is influenced by the community that surrounds it. A common thread in my life I guess.

So its obviously not for everyone, and my beliefs on the process are also different I guess. This is 100% just my opinion and maybe the ramblings of a mad artist. Not intended to offend or upset.

But I think you might see in the near future kickstarter only allowing more artistic projects in progress. They have started rejecting tech projects looking for a sales launch on a daily basis. I think cards could follow that too.

Aside from that. I never expected it to fail but assumed it was a possibility. My intention was never to launch so early, but with Legends printing costs going up 20% It was launch now over Christmas or pay 20% more later.

And lastly. I would love to show you around our home Don, and prove you wrong on your building analogy. Guarantee you no serious injury and some of the things we have done here would take your breath away.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2015, 12:47:32 AM »

First, for clarity, I might have accidentally locked the topic when I made my last post. I have some checkboxes under my Compose window in the Post Reply page and one is labeled "Lock this topic" - it's the only logical reason I can think of that would have caused the topic to be locked. For that, I do apologize - most people know me as a person not prone to locking topics in the midst of a discussion, whether I'm winning or losing an argument!

De, you seem to have a few solid ideas in here. If you have backers that are pleased with how things are and none or close to it who are arguing against, then by all means, keep going. In the majority of projects, it's typically the case that if the concept isn't thoroughly nailed down, it's very close to it - and yes, with some room for changes if the backers are requesting them in large numbers.

While I agree that KS makes some effort to avoid being a store, for all practical intents and purposes, they've become one. They only time they'll even consider making a fuss is if someone reports a project to them, and even then they're not always eager to intervene. Additionally, it's in their own Terms of Use that if a project creator doesn't deliver on rewards, he's supposed to refund the cash - the only problem with that being that KS has no teeth behind their rule, no means of enforcement, and they advise backers who were ripped off to seek legal action with their local authorities. When's the last time you saw a cop care about the theft of an amount under fifty US dollars or about thirty or thirty-five pounds sterling? Especially when the thief is nowhere near their jurisdiction. Some have made progress pursuing cases with their state attorneys general, but the process is slow and plodding, with completion times measured in years. The bottom line is that KS loves that flow of money that comes from successfully-backed projects and wants nothing to interrupt that income. But I'm digressing here.

In regard to faces, as much as I like traditional designs, I can also cozy up to something different as well, as long as it's done with a degree of practicality kept in mind. I recently saw a Kickstarter launch of a deck that uses symbols similar to the original suits - with the unfortunate exception of making "diamonds" look like heart-shaped rubies...yeah, not TOO impractical...

While there are people who'll hate things that are too far from standard, there are about as many who wants something different; the more strange and unusual, the better. My general rule of thumb when it comes to playing card design is that yes, you can make things different, you can bend or break some basic design rules - but when you do go contrary to the rules, you really need a reason for doing so in order for people to "get it" and find the deck desirable. The rules are a lot looser for art decks because you don't buy art decks for magic performances or playing a serious poker game - you buy it because the art is cool, and other considerations are secondary. But even there, there's not one reason why the cards can't be made more practical as well.

For a commercial deck, one that people want to sell big-time, I apply a stricter standard - I ask the question, "If I were to put these cards on the table at my next poker game, would the guys use them or throw them at me and ask for 'real' playing cards?" In that question, there are gradients as well - I consider whether the game is more serious (hardcore players love traditional and little else) or neighborhood/friendly (a "beer and pretzels" crowd is a bit more forgiving and open to something a bit different - but not TOO different). Clearly, you deck appeals to neither crowd - but this is a case where that doesn't matter.

Make something that's designed from your own vision, put it on a bunch of playing cards and have at it. One thing that I occasionally leave out (and I shouldn't) is artistic passion for a concept, such as what you appear to have here. You're more interested in pursuing that vision than selling practical-looking playing cards. If that's what you want, if you're sticking to your guns, then go for it. In such cases, it's less about how many decks you sell, more about how much the people buying them really love your work. You won't make as much cash - but since when is cash the only important thing in this world?

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2015, 07:35:06 AM »

This last post not only made me feel better, it made me laugh.

And its 100% on the money. Although I have another deck I have been working on forever that is much closer to "traditional" this project was always an art one. It still is. And its very strongly tied in my mind to a group of other non card projects I've have been and am currently still working on.

I can 100% guarantee you this was never a money making venture so you are correct in your statement of cash not being everything. I am one of the hopeless kinds that sells and commissions artworks but also regularly turns down offers on a new piece, because I like it too much to part with it. (luckily I have a business that runs in conjunction with it so I can afford to be a little selfish

It was always meant to be functional, but also specific and pretty. At least to me. Also luckily a bunch of other people.

We will see what happens. I have no doubt this will not fund currently but I also have other avenues of promotion locally already happening that were arranged prior to Christmas that delayed because of the holiday break and I don't really want those to post or be printed to send people to a cancelled link. Even if they look now, back it or not. They will see it and be ready for later if its not funded and needs a relaunch. Its still obtaining fans of the designs as we go along.

And again I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But this is something I was working on to go with it. Humility aside. I think its gorgeous.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2015, 02:40:42 AM »

De reached me via PM to announce that he's canceled his project and is retooling it for a relaunch. De, if you could give us a few details, I'm sure I speak for us all when I say we'd appreciate it.

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2015, 04:57:03 AM »

Thanks Don,

Yes as mentioned I have cancelled and relaunched to get it funded. Not sure how to update the listing here.

As per feedback and response to the initial kickstarter, albeit to some disappointment of most of the very supportive backers I have relaunched with one deck only with a second as a possible stretch goal.

I have also as mentioned done some slight re-designs as per the images above which is the design for the relaunch. This was due to feedback, backer support, input and community support and feedback. Including Dons, valuable input amongst others.

I really wanted something different for the faces. I collect a lot of decks. And it can be a little disheartening to open a box with 15 different decks, all the same faces. All the same pips, all laid out the same. This is different on purpose.

I feel this still stays very true to my initial vision and goals whilst being more inline with many other peoples ideas as well. Some things were too important to me, as saving some negative space on non indices corners, I understand this is not for all, but this was important for my initial idea. Also the court card are still kept minimalistic as I really always wanted the pips to be a major focus point for the design. But they still have tie overs to traditional designs. The suicide king, the one eyed jacks, the floral queens. Its there but minimalistic and subtle, as intended. Hidden in plain sight.

I have however limited the text to the Tuck and removed it from the back as per many suggestions and have more defined the pips to stand out from one another. The deck still stays true to the concept of recycling the Heart image into all the other elements of the deck including courts and tuck, its just more defined now.

I have also gone over every deck in my collection and have taken on board Victors repeated comments about the text on the Jokers and have gone more traditional by moving some text to the Ace of Spades and removing others.

As for colour after getting a couple of prototypes made I did not like how dark the pips were coming out so I changed over to some lighter versions of the red and racing green to make them "pop" a bit more.

I have also done away with the concept of the unlimited deck and just lead with the limited Race deck. This and any deck I may do in the future have always been about the art not about cash so there is no real need to have any more than a limited amount, then move on to the next piece or project.

I have also done away with standard stretch goal ideals of improving the deck as I will be printing this anyway. Funded or not. I have already sent over final files now and will be paying the deposit myself. Along with the rest if not funded. As such the decks will be standard with all the bells and whistles. My own seals, numbered. Embossed, foiled, as standard.

On the financial side.
The project is still including free shipping worldwide which is a considerable amount of the cost. Please note it may seem expensive but to clarify this is a delivered price, anywhere. It is also in Australian dollars meaning the EB 2 deck price is only $12USD a deck delivered anywhere. I think maybe people where missing that in the initial KS. By my calculations, that could be under cost price once delivered at the end of the day. So please, to those who seem to be thinking it, this is not designed to rip you off, I'm just trying to fund an artwork and dream I am quite passionate about. I wanted to include the shipping for all as its almost the same anywhere when fulfilling though Legends Playing Card Co. and being in Australia, paying through the nose to get a deck of cards is par for the course because of delivery here. I wanted everyone around the world to get a better deal and as such this is far more affordable than most kickstarters for many. Because of this half of my previous backers were from "rest of the world" as they say. The other half a really supportive, helpful and involved community of backers from the USA.

Thanks to those who have supported me and this project up until now. Its been a massive help in driving it forward.

I'm happy to answer questions.

De.

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2015, 04:57:53 AM »

Sorry link is
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hudsondesign/perspective-playing-cards

Don Boyer · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2015, 11:51:55 PM »

A few notes:

Prototypes do generally come out DARKER than the final product. It's because of the difference in printers - prototypes and proof sheets are made off of a large computer printer while mass-production playing cards are usually done using an offset printing press. Don't rush into changes of the colors without consulting with your printer first. If anyone can tell you about what colors will appear like after they're printed with the press, it's them.
To change a PCF topic's title, you have to edit the first post. As you don't have that ability because you didn't make the first post, ask a moderator or an administrator to help and they'll do it for you.
Be careful about funding and Kickstarter. Kickstarter has a rule that indicates you can't raise funds for an already-completed product. It sounded like you already paid for the printing and it's a done deal. Perhaps I read you wrong? It's part of KS's efforts to keep from being used as a store - though they're very spotty about how that gets enforced.

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2015, 03:17:22 AM »

1. Didn't know that. That is definitely information I appreciate.
2. That's what I thought I was doing.
3. Feels like we exchanged places somewhere.... Anyway, I was trying to get across my dedication to the project while also letting people know it is my intention to pay printing deposits early so the project is no later than originally estimated. As a way of supporting current backers who were so important to me so far. My point is, if I do this, and it didn't fund, I would pay the rest myself, as I would have to.

I'm aware KS is not a shop, that was my position previously when I said I believed a project didn't need to be 100% set in stone finished before launch as it was a creative platform above all else.

I discussed it all with KS prior to both launches as well.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2015, 03:51:54 AM »

Quote from: HudsonDesign on January 17, 2015, 03:17:22 AM

1. Didn't know that. That is definitely information I appreciate.

No problem. I learned it from the guys doing the Plugged Nickel deck on KS.

Quote

2. That's what I thought I was doing.

There's no way you could have done anything with the first post of the topic. The first post is the post that created the topic. In this case, it was created by board moderator Rob Wright. Your first post was the second of the topic, posted about four hours after Rob. Change that post's headline or any other subsequent post's headline, and it will only affect that post, not changing the headline of the topic.

Quote

3. Feels like we exchanged places somewhere.... Anyway, I was trying to get across my dedication to the project while also letting people know it is my intention to pay printing deposits early so the project is no later than originally estimated. As a way of supporting current backers who were so important to me so far. My point is, if I do this, and it didn't fund, I would pay the rest myself, as I would have to.

I'm aware KS is not a shop, that was my position previously when I said I believed a project didn't need to be 100% set in stone finished before launch as it was a creative platform above all else.

I discussed it all with KS prior to both launches as well.

Good - you crossed your t's and dotted your i's. Not all project creators are that thorough.

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2015, 04:23:57 AM »

Ahhhh right thanks Don.

I'm nothing if not thorough. My budget file for this deck was 7 pages long

Anyway, Some updated Images.

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #21 on:** January 21, 2015, 12:38:55 AM »

New prototypes turned up finally, just in time for the new tuck renders as well, so took some time off to have a play for a change, check it out, share, and back it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npoCLKE1GUA

Oh, and an image to boot!

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2015, 05:51:54 AM »

Half way!

HudsonDesign · « **Reply #23 on:** January 27, 2015, 07:11:58 AM »

Hey Guys!

The Perspective Deck is smashing along! 66% funded, two thirds even!

Still some yet to jump back on the new project since relaunch that still want to now is the time.

De

Jester · « **Reply #24 on:** February 07, 2015, 07:28:45 AM »

Hey all,

My friend has designed these playing cards and I'm helping promote them in the hope I can help him hit his funding target. Please take a look

The Perspective Playing Cards are a premium deck of cards designed by De of Hudson Design from the Blue Mountains Australia. The design is inspired by the concept of recycling and upcycling old, broken, junk and garbage things into something simple, beautiful and functional.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hudsondesign/perspective-playing-cards