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The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)

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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2015, 02:42:01 PM »
 

HudsonDesign

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This I can agree with.  As a collector its lost most of its shine for me.  I also feel with the focus on cards and not new material the whole reason hes a selling point dissipates a bit.  So if you give up on creating new effects then the cards should be able to speak for themselves,  which in this case has not happened.

I'm also surprised that "this is the more profitable option."

I would have imagined that producing some new material, even if its put on DVD, which they can produce themselves, would be a fraction of the cost.  Yes sure some people will by 12 decks or more, but only one DVD.  But the dvd might only cost 50c each to produce and bring in $25 or more each.  Plus then people would want whatever cards were in said DVD. (which is why I always think its funny to see people using private reserve etc instead of what they have for sale.)

If you make it a small 5 minute download, then only hosting and payment processing is a cost really, even though it might only be $5-$10 per download its a license to print money.'

So I guess IMHO there would have to be better business practice in releasing material as the primary goal and cards, with far better designs, are supplemental to that.  Less often and better designed. 

I know the prohibition decks were charged at a pretty decent premium.  But I imagine if they put the lions den in a small twin pack limited edition box, they would sell out pretty quick, then used the prohibition decks as standard they would have sold squillions!  Doing it this way made the prohibition decks cooler, and I would be very, very surprised if the first 5000 lions den didn't "sell out" in a week.  But I can't see them selling many more after that initial "must get before anyone else does" phase runs out.

My biggest surprise and disappointment was that they lead with this as the black clubs first "free deck".  Also as a mystery deck.  Which I think was a waste.

I don't think people will be "hanging out" for the next one currently.  If they had, as first cab off the rank, used something really spectacular, really breathtaking, and those mystery packages had really sparked interest, they would have set themselves up for the rest of the year,  created buzz for the future releases, and probably sold a truckload more black club memberships.

As it stands you start the negativity its very hard to swing back the other way.  This might mean for the rest of the year instead of getting "This new release is a pretty cool deck" they might be battling, "at least its better than the Lions Den deck".

I am almost hesitant to put this out in the open for people to read.  I should write it in an envelope, post it to Don and ask him to open it in a couple of months time, when Victor is reviewing one of the new decks and "TaDaaaa" a 3 month multi national, cross global prediction trick!

(Sorry Vic, but you know its gonna happen mate  ;)   )
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2015, 09:39:35 PM »
 

HolyJJ

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For some reason, Ellusionist appear to have delayed the release of this deck -- they released the deck to black club members a couple of days ago... and they haven't yet released the deck to the general public.

Maybe they want to create more awareness of deck, prior to it's general release?
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2015, 04:13:55 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Currently both Private Reserve and Blue Rounders are easy going over $100 on ebay. (and I don't even know if these are genuine http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bicycle-Ellusionist-Madison-Rounders-BLUE-RARE-US-Playing-Cards-Magic-NEW-/171340256163?pt=AU_Card_Games&hash=item27e4acd3a3 This guy always seems to have too many copies of pretty rare stuff to be real?  Along with asian ties I think they are knock offs anyway).

What Asian connections?  The seller is in Melbourne, on a totally different continent!

It's not exactly impossible to come up with rare decks - you yourself mentioned having all those Madison decks without even trying to get them!  There are a number of eBay sellers that are actually professional card retailers, using eBay as either a supplement to or replacement for a brick-and-mortar store.  Many sell their rare decks post-retail, at collectors' prices.  Though if you ask me, AU$128/US$101.14 is really high for that deck...
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 04:14:31 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2015, 10:28:39 AM »
 

Fess

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These are now available at E. $10 a pop is a little steep, I expected they would land at the $7.00 mark. Even so I suspect they'll sell out. If you're a completionist, check your email. E should have sent you a direct link to the decks page.

EDIT: I went to click, gimmie one of these, and the link I have in my email is still for Black Club Members haha. They should be available very soon. Haha, I'm not a black club member. That cracks me up. LMAO, why taunt Fes like that E? I thought we were pals.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 10:33:41 AM by Fes »
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2015, 02:24:57 PM »
 

HudsonDesign

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What Asian connections?  The seller is in Melbourne, on a totally different continent!

Don,

You are 100% correct and I could be 100% incorrect.   Also i did say I don't know if they are genuine and I only think they are knock offs.  Just a guess.

I came to this conclusion a fair while ago, maybe a year.  I can't remember exactly what it was but there was some deck that was "never for sale" limited to 2500 decks maybe, maybe less (sorry was a fair while back), and had been sold out and gone for a long time, that I needed for my own collection.  This seller had the only copy out there available on ebay at the time, ridiculously expensive IMHO as well.  Also there was something like 40 sold and 200 available.  He also had some other cheaper decks (like average price handling decks, standard bikes or something like that, again can not 100% remember)  for a ridiculously cheap, fell of the back of a truck, type prices.

Being a little suss on it all and really wanting that deck, but not wanting to drop a fortune on a fake I went searching.

This seller is located in melbourne Aus as listed on Ebay.  But is also the owner of 360direct2u a Hong Kong listed company.  He sells lots of "rare" cards and lots of cheap imported camera equipment, spy camera, golf stuff, you name it.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/heng-lee/17/844/791
http://www.hongkongcompanylist.com/365direct2u-limited-byooyfo/

So yes, I could be completely wrong and if I am would love to know because the idea of a local seller that's legit with occasional rare cards is fantastic and really handy considering postage to Australia from the USA.

But to me it seemed all to coincidental along with the amazing amount of stock he had at the time for something considered rare and unavailable for me to risk dropping the $$$.
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2015, 05:39:15 PM »
 

HudsonDesign

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Also just noticed in the images below.   Looks like maybe DMs focus has shifted to being a Card Company rather than a lecturer or writer who also produces cards.  Can't blame him I guess, follow the money and all that.

Side note from the other image : - Wonder why his casino idea never panned out.... ::)

 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2015, 08:34:39 PM »
 

Card Player

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Also just noticed in the images below.   Looks like maybe DMs focus has shifted to being a Card Company rather than a lecturer or writer who also produces cards.  Can't blame him I guess, follow the money and all that.

Side note from the other image : - Wonder why his casino idea never panned out.... ::)

I have to disagree. As many in this industry have proven, they can be focused on more then one thing at the same time. The only thing DM or Ellusionist is really doing is getting orginaized, creating official entities and sub-divisions for what they have already been doing this whole time. I don't see any diference between "Madison Presents" or just having DM's official logo on his products.
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2015, 12:10:35 AM »
 

HudsonDesign

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I hope your right.  Honestly do.  Only going on what i'm seeing.  Less material, more decks and specific new branding.
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2015, 12:18:58 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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For sale to the public Lions Den Playing Cards by Daniel Madison


Quote
A Note from Daniel Madison

After almost a year in the creation, Madison Presents is set to launch with one of my most meaningful and personal decks of cards... The Lions Den.

 A few years back I had a wild idea to open my own casino which would be a safe-haven for crooked gamblers. Although the project never got off the ground, the branding and playing cards had been designed, and Madison Presents offered me the perfect platform to help see these cards come to life.

 The Lions Den deck is the casino deck designed for my own casino, offering a full top to bottom bleed of classy black and gold  but a white border on either side as a cheating safety measure.

 The unique casino stock is similar to Madison Rounders - thin, smooth and sturdy. The design takes elements from a classical casino style with a minimal yet regal touch. The gold flows on both sides (front and back) with unique court cards and the box offers a minimal and slick home for the cards.

 With the Lions Den deck, I present to you, a deck of cards fit for a casino, and also fit for a King.

 
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.

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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2015, 02:30:32 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Odd.  This is nothing like the back story mentioned on Daniel Madison's website.

HD: yes, it's very possible then that this company is dealing on the shadier side of the street.  But if you buy through eBay, you should be covered under their Buyer Protection Program.  No risk of loss.  If a dealer gets enough complaints leveled at them, eBay will sanction them in some way and possibly freeze their PayPal account.
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2015, 07:53:25 AM »
 

Card Player

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For sale to the public Lions Den Playing Cards by Daniel Madison


Quote
A Note from Daniel Madison

After almost a year in the creation, Madison Presents is set to launch with one of my most meaningful and personal decks of cards... The Lions Den.

 A few years back I had a wild idea to open my own casino which would be a safe-haven for crooked gamblers. Although the project never got off the ground, the branding and playing cards had been designed, and Madison Presents offered me the perfect platform to help see these cards come to life.

 The Lions Den deck is the casino deck designed for my own casino, offering a full top to bottom bleed of classy black and gold  but a white border on either side as a cheating safety measure.

 The unique casino stock is similar to Madison Rounders - thin, smooth and sturdy. The design takes elements from a classical casino style with a minimal yet regal touch. The gold flows on both sides (front and back) with unique court cards and the box offers a minimal and slick home for the cards.

 With the Lions Den deck, I present to you, a deck of cards fit for a casino, and also fit for a King.

 

I did read this... Someone on the other forum took the words out of my head. "A casino which would be a safe-haven for crooked gamblers" Can't imagine (sarcasm) why investors or casino insurance companies would not want to back something like that? LMAO

DM might want to re-think using the acronym MPC for "Madison Playing Cards". MakingPlayingCards.com (MPC). For a second, I thought Madison Presents was DM's attempt of getting away from MPC, but I guess not.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 08:14:49 AM by Card Player »
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2015, 09:41:31 AM »
 

PurpleIce

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Anyone also noticed a lot of gold and "fit for a king" is being used in E lately?
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2015, 09:44:55 AM »
 

aldazar

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Anyone also noticed a lot of gold and "fit for a king" is being used in E lately?

Yeah no doubt! Apparently DM is the self styled King... Or did someone else crown him when I wasn't paying attention? =P
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2015, 09:53:17 AM »
 

Fess

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Anyone also noticed a lot of gold and "fit for a king" is being used in E lately?

Yeah no doubt! Apparently DM is the self styled King... Or did someone else crown him when I wasn't paying attention? =P

Kings and Queens trendy terms last couple years. Lots of "I'm a King" and "My king" and all that kinda thing going on. Women using Queen much, much more as well. Kind of an urban thing that spilled over, I guess you could say. He's using it to draw in more people. I think it's working looks like his decks are selling very well.

I'm picking up one of these. I feel like I want to investigate it, see how it feels, the overall effect, etc.
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2015, 09:43:10 AM »
 

Lee Asher

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What I'm about to say is not a reflection on Daniel Madison because I think he's a supremely swell guy.

I did read this... Someone on the other forum took the words out of my head. "A casino which would be a safe-haven for crooked gamblers" Can't imagine (sarcasm) why investors or casino insurance companies would not want to back something like that? LMAO

True, but forget investors or insurance companies for a sec because all gaming must be licensed by a governing body (depending on where you live). For instance, all casinos and key employees in Las Vegas must be licensed through the Nevada State Gaming Control Board. This is not an easy task, nor an inexpensive process. It's daunting, invasive, and quite frankly designed to thwart exactly what Mr. Madison wanted to create.

But even more to the point, Casinos don't need to cheat because they only make money when you win. Sounds crazy right? But it's the truth...

I know you're thinking to yourselves right now, "Lee, that doesn't make any sense!"

It does. Hear me out. The easiest way to explain it is by using the old casino game KENO. For those of you who are not familiar with KENO, it's simply a lottery that happens every 5 minutes, 24 hours a day. God bless Las Vegas!

KENO
80 numbers are on the board. 20 are then randomly chosen (Just like most lotteries). 20 chosen / divided by 80 total is easily broken down into 1/4. This is called a True Odd. For everyone $1 you bet, you should win $4. Makes sense right?

However, in Las Vegas where you can play KENO, for every $1 you bet, you only win $3. Meaning, they keep a $1 when you win.

So what happens if you lose? Simple. The money goes into escrow (the cage), and waits until someone eventually wins it. Then the Casino takes their piece. This happens over and over, 24 hrs a day.

...and that's how Casinos generate gaming revenue ladies & gentlemen. Thanks for listening.

Class dismissed!
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2015, 11:25:31 AM »
 

Card Player

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What I'm about to say is not a reflection on Daniel Madison because I think he's a supremely swell guy.

I did read this... Someone on the other forum took the words out of my head. "A casino which would be a safe-haven for crooked gamblers" Can't imagine (sarcasm) why investors or casino insurance companies would not want to back something like that? LMAO

Forget investors or insurance companies, all gaming must be licensed by a governing body (depending on where you live). For instance, all casinos and key employees in Las Vegas must be licensed through the Nevada State Gaming Control Board. This is not an easy task, nor an inexpensive process. It's daunting, invasive, and quite frankly designed to thwart exactly what Mr. Madison wanted to create.

But even more to the point, Casinos don't need to cheat because they only make money when you win. Sounds crazy right? But it's the truth...

I know you're thinking to yourselves right now, "Lee, that doesn't make any sense!"

It does. Hear me out. The easiest way to explain it is by using the old casino game KENO. For those of you who are not familiar with KENO, it's simply a lottery that happens every 5 minutes, 24 hours a day. God bless Las Vegas!

KENO
80 numbers are on the board. 20 are then randomly chosen (Just like most lotteries). 20 chosen / divided by 80 total is easily broken down into 1/4. This is called a True Odd. For everyone $1 you bet, you should win $4. Makes sense right?

However, in Las Vegas where you can play KENO, for every $1 you bet, you only win $3. Meaning, they keep a $1 when you win.

So what happens if you lose? Simple. The money goes into escrow (the cage), and waits until someone eventually wins it. Then the Casino takes their piece. This happens over and over, 24 hrs a day.

...and that's how Casinos generate gaming revenue ladies & gentlemen. Thanks for listening.

Class dismissed!

lmao... Good info Lee. I probably should have done more accurate research about the gaming control or gaming commission. It was along the same lines of your example.

Seeing as most of us males were born with testicules, to say DM or I for that matter are swell or nice guys (all the time) is not a realistic statement. I understand what you meant though. I don't take DM calling people "closet lovers" or c@nts on Instagram personally. He's a swell guy! Lol
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 11:42:45 AM by Card Player »
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2015, 12:12:17 PM »
 

Lee Asher

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Quote
Seeing as most of us males were born with testicules, to say DM or I for that matter are swell or nice guys (all the time) is not a realistic statement. I understand what you meant though. I don't take DM calling people "closet lovers" or c@nts on Instagram personally. He's a swell guy! Lol

I was simply referring to the times I've personally dealt with Daniel. He has always been respectful & friendly.
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2015, 01:13:59 PM »
 

Card Player

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Quote
Seeing as most of us males were born with testicules, to say DM or I for that matter are swell or nice guys (all the time) is not a realistic statement. I understand what you meant though. I don't take DM calling people "closet lovers" or c@nts on Instagram personally. He's a swell guy! Lol

I was simply referring to the times I've personally dealt with Daniel. He has always been respectful & friendly.

I believe you. I doubt anyone would treat you any differently.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 01:39:38 PM by Card Player »
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2015, 01:54:35 PM »
 

Lee Asher

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I believe you. I doubt anyone would treat you any differently.

Sometimes. You'd be surprised bro...

 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2015, 05:59:31 PM »
 

HudsonDesign

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That is exactly how poker or slot machines work in Australia.  You put in $1, they keep track.  And wait.  Then you win.  Pays out $97 but the actual input to the machine was $100.

So they keep 97 cents on every dollar input.  By connecting machines in one venue, or across multiple venues, you can get massive jackpot amounts.  But its always just a percentage return.

Here in Aus they also set the machines however they want.  So some might pay out 97 some 93.  I always think new and popular machines are set a little lower.

Fun fact.  Australia has 3 times as many poker machines per capita than the USA.  (2012 USA 369 people per machine AUS 111 people per machine)  Aussies love a punt.
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2015, 07:17:18 PM »
 

Card Player

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Fun fact.  Australia has 3 times as many poker machines per capita than the USA.  (2012 USA 369 people per machine AUS 111 people per machine)  Aussies love a punt.

I don't play anything that allows a computer/machine to determine the outcome/odds of winning. Give me a physical gaming table, dealt deck of cards or hand held dice everytime.

I'll play free online poker every now and again, like Pokerist but never anything for real money. I've seen too many hands unfold that are not true to actual probability. Many more bad beats online then actual poker probability.

So, If most U.S. gamblers are anything like me, I can see why we have more people per machine. I'd rather tip an actual dealer and know a casino is paying an employee then taking a job away with a machine.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 07:20:48 PM by Card Player »
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2015, 08:04:49 PM »
 

Lee Asher

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So they keep 97 cents on every dollar input.  By connecting machines in one venue, or across multiple venues, you can get massive jackpot amounts.  But its always just a percentage return.

It's the same in Las Vegas, though it seems like you have it backwards. For every dollar you play, you should win 97 cents. The Casino keeps 3 cents every time you win. Now the real questions is ... how many times do you need to win before you go broke?  ;)

So, If most U.S. gamblers are anything like me, I can see why we have more people per machine. I'd rather tip an actual dealer and know a casino is paying an employee then taking a job away with a machine.

If the Casinos had it their way, there would be no more table games. Upper management thinks in square footage, just like real estate. Think about how many slots you can fit in the same space as a Black Jack table. Craps table? etc...

Also, keep in mind, slot machines don't call in sick because their kids have a cough!

In 1994-1999, when I was going to school for casino management at UNLV (University of Nevada, Las Vegas), slot machines brought in about 70% of the strip's bottom line.  ??? Maybe it's changed a bit, but probably not.

We will probably see table games go away in our lifetime.
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2015, 08:56:53 PM »
 

Fess

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I think it has changed Lee. The advent of those so called 1 cent machines when in reality the max bet is something like $7.30 have increased the take from slots. Also if you pop into any casino on the strip now you'll see machines that will play roulette, craps, black jack as well as other typical table games.

I wouldn't be surprised if what you say comes to fruition I'll be very sad if it does though. I really don't like slots. I doubt many of us here do, we're card lovers.
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2015, 09:14:16 PM »
 

aldazar

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I'd take a sizable bet against pretty long odds that table games will not be disappearing anytime soon... Have you seen the metrics from Asia?! And in particular Macau? Slots may make more margin but tables destroy them in terms of sheer volume. People like to have a tactile sense of what they're playing and, as has been pointed out, some distrust computers and the like and prefer to interact with real people and real cards. Baccarat probably sees more turnover than all the other casino games combined on a global basis...
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2015, 10:03:47 PM »
 

Lee Asher

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I'd take a sizable bet against pretty long odds that table games will not be disappearing anytime soon... Have you seen the metrics from Asia?! And in particular Macau? Slots may make more margin but tables destroy them in terms of sheer volume. People like to have a tactile sense of what they're playing and, as has been pointed out, some distrust computers and the like and prefer to interact with real people and real cards. Baccarat probably sees more turnover than all the other casino games combined on a global basis...

Pardon me. Let me rephrase... They will vanish in the Americas.