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The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)

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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2015, 10:16:39 PM »
 

aldazar

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I'd still take that bet against long odds... =) You might be surprised how many Asians travel to the U.S. to gamble (or live there already)... Unfortunately we can't actually bet since we both have to be dead for the bet to be settled =P
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2015, 10:22:14 PM »
 

Lee Asher

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I'd still take that bet against long odds... =) You might be surprised how many Asians travel to the U.S. to gamble (or live there already)... Unfortunately we can't actually bet since we both have to be dead for the bet to be settled =P

Action accepted!  ;)
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2015, 11:01:00 PM »
 

flyers3003

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So back to the deck...

Here's E's latest on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/ellusionist/photos/a.10150578138596161.375050.61472466160/10152666016411161/?type=1&theater

Yeah, better hurry, these are running out fast and the remaining few will only be available for promotions ??? 
I guess they're planning on a lot of promotions.  I just checked and as of the time of this post there were still over 3100 left in stock.  This deck is just not selling.
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2015, 08:19:57 AM »
 

Lee Asher

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So back to the deck...

My apologies. I had no intentions of derailing this thread.

And now back to the deck at hand...
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2015, 06:42:40 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'll keep my casino comments brief.

Lee: New York State actually has a lottery game that functions exactly like Keno, using video monitors and automated betting machines in bars and restaurants.  New game every five minutes.  All controlled by a computer in Albany, at the Lottery Commission's HQ.

Card Player: all gambling that takes place in my state is computer-controlled.  There's something in the laws covering the lottery that allows for gambling, but it's controlled in the same way as the lottery, completely electronically - slot machines, poker tables, roulette, craps, etc.  They seem to like the elimination of the human element - many successful cheating scams involve the use of an inside man or woman.  No cards to crimp or notch, no dice to switch, no wheel to rig.

I have my doubts that table gaming will vanish completely - but they might eventually be as popular as buggy whips and Conestoga wagons.  As far as how many slot machines can fit in the same space as a gaming table - sure, just one table, but you have up to eight people playing on that table, not just one like the slot machines.  People do like the human touch, but gaming commissions want tighter security and controls on how gaming is conducted.  But until there are computers that have a human touch to how they interact with people, people will never disappear entirely from inside the gaming tables.

So back to the deck...

Here's E's latest on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/ellusionist/photos/a.10150578138596161.375050.61472466160/10152666016411161/?type=1&theater

Yeah, better hurry, these are running out fast and the remaining few will only be available for promotions ??? 
I guess they're planning on a lot of promotions.  I just checked and as of the time of this post there were still over 3100 left in stock.  This deck is just not selling.

This deck is going to end up as an albatross.  They thought they struck gold with those whacky side-only borders, but they look ridiculous.  It was quite possibly the worst deck to kick off the free deck program for Black Club members.

And yes, Daniel Madison himself is a charming fellow, judging from the E event in Brooklyn last year.
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2015, 07:17:40 PM »
 

Card Player

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Lee: New York State actually has a lottery game that functions exactly like Keno, using video monitors and automated betting machines in bars and restaurants.  New game every five minutes.  All controlled by a computer in Albany, at the Lottery Commission's HQ.

Card Player: all gambling that takes place in my state is computer-controlled.  There's something in the laws covering the lottery that allows for gambling, but it's controlled in the same way as the lottery, completely electronically - slot machines, poker tables, roulette, craps, etc.  They seem to like the elimination of the human element - many successful cheating scams involve the use of an inside man or woman.  No cards to crimp or notch, no dice to switch, no wheel to rig.

@ Don: I believe the lottery game your referring to that functions like Keno is called "Quick Draw". I'll have to remind myself next time I'm in "your state" to play that. lol

There are a few reasons why I prefer the human element. Cheating is not one that I've ever considered. I know collusion is always possible. However, I would think it much easier to find an inside person to rig/hack a machine, coding or a network, then take a chance with the casino's eye in the sky or casino security.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 07:25:38 PM by Card Player »
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2015, 09:07:32 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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@ Don: I believe the lottery game your referring to that functions like Keno is called "Quick Draw". I'll have to remind myself next time I'm in "your state" to play that. lol

There are a few reasons why I prefer the human element. Cheating is not one that I've ever considered. I know collusion is always possible. However, I would think it much easier to find an inside person to rig/hack a machine, coding or a network, then take a chance with the casino's eye in the sky or casino security.

Yes, it's Quick Draw!  Not as many places have it these days, though.  For all I know, the game's been phased out.  Now that I think of it, it's been a number of years since I saw a Quick Draw-equipped establishment, and the few that did have it were rarely busy as a result of people wanting to play.  More often than not, it was ignored - just another TV screen in a place full of TV screens, most of which never get watched unless there's a sporting event on.

Collusion or cheating would be considerably simpler for a floor worker running a table.  Not that they wouldn't get caught, mind you, but it's easier.  The other games would require a deep knowledge of how the games work.  The network running the machines isn't even directly connected to the Internet - it's a closed system, unhackable other than on premises.  So, as the casino owner, you can either have live tables with hundreds of security personnel, or computer-controlled tables with a few dozen security personnel.  They'll take the cheaper option, every time.

Additionally, it's not like the state's gaming authority isn't present.  They can detect intrusions taking place in the network, and the network's too small for one to not get caught.  It would be difficult to succeed and would require the collusion of a LOT of casino employees in security and IT.  I'm pretty sure they're not even using computers equipped with a USB connection!

But yes, we are getting back into a tangent that should have died by now.  We'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I still think this deck design was a mistake.  Another case where being different doesn't add up to being better.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 09:07:54 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2015, 12:31:39 AM »
 

Card Player

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Collusion or cheating would be considerably simpler for a floor worker running a table.  Not that they wouldn't get caught, mind you, but it's easier.  The other games would require a deep knowledge of how the games work.  The network running the machines isn't even directly connected to the Internet - it's a closed system, unhackable other than on premises.  So, as the casino owner, you can either have live tables with hundreds of security personnel, or computer-controlled tables with a few dozen security personnel.  They'll take the cheaper option, every time.

@ Don

Your right about the casino being a closed system. I was being too general and grouping all automated systems together including online gambling. Online gambling is constantly getting hacked. I remember hearing one story about one of the poker sites being hacked by its own employee for years. I'm sure there would be a way an employee of a gambling machine manufacture to rig a machine the same way.

The problem with the theory that casinos would rather go all automated because it saves them money is the other end of the spectrum. Losing customers and less money volume to another casinos willing to keep a human element present. I think there needs to be a balance of both and there is in most casinos. Plus a casino that becomes over automated risks the loss of customers that no longer see the point in traveling to a casino because of online app options.

I'm thinking most casino's (where applicable) will never 100% lose physical gaming tables and risk the loss of business.  Casinos rely on "volume" as much as they do profit margin. It's guys like me that prefer physical gaming, that brings people with them to the casino (family, friends, etc.).

It would be a sad day when the WSOP becomes automated.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:39:59 AM by Card Player »
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2015, 01:14:45 AM »
 

Rob Wright

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Hey guys, let's stay on topic here. Love this deck or bash it either way.
If you want to talk casino/gambling please start a new topic.
Thanks

For me, I don't think the deck is too bad. It's definitely not the same old, same old from Madison. I received my 2 decks today.
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2015, 02:45:23 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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@ Don

Your right about the casino being a closed system. I was being too general and grouping all automated systems together including online gambling. Online gambling is constantly getting hacked. I remember hearing one story about one of the poker sites being hacked by its own employee for years. I'm sure there would be a way an employee of a gambling machine manufacture to rig a machine the same way.

The problem with the theory that casinos would rather go all automated because it saves them money is the other end of the spectrum. Losing customers and less money volume to another casinos willing to keep a human element present. I think there needs to be a balance of both and there is in most casinos. Plus a casino that becomes over automated risks the loss of customers that no longer see the point in traveling to a casino because of online app options.

I'm thinking most casino's (where applicable) will never 100% lose physical gaming tables and risk the loss of business.  Casinos rely on "volume" as much as they do profit margin. It's guys like me that prefer physical gaming, that brings people with them to the casino (family, friends, etc.).

It would be a sad day when the WSOP becomes automated.

As more states allow gaming and as technology improves, there will be more and more government-ordered controls placed.  New York mandated that the human factor be eliminated - there's not a single human running a gaming table at any casino here.  All the games are centrally controlled and the human factor for cheating has been removed, for the most part.  At the minimum, you'd need an insider with extensive IT knowledge specific to the gaming industry to even attempt an "inside job" - and they get examined under a microscope before they're even hired.  And precisely because online gaming with casinos are frequent targets of hackers, you will probably never see a casino with Internet-connected gaming terminals.  So the argument about neighboring casinos doesn't stand up as well under such circumstances.

Sure, one could go to an out-of-state establishment, but they're not exactly next door.  Atlantic City is closer to Philadelphia than New York - and Philly just introduced gaming recently, contributing to Atlantic City's inexorable downhill slide.  Foxwoods in Connecticut is an hour away or more, at least from much of the city, and you need a car or a chartered bus to get there - millions of New Yorkers don't own cars because of the expense of maintenance and lack of parking combined with the extensive public transportation available.  Empire City Casino at Yonkers Raceway is a five-minute public bus ride from a New York subway terminal in the North Bronx.  It's cheap to get to and practically caters to the pensioner crowd looking for a little excitement.

Is it as much fun as AC or Las Vegas?  Not really.  But it's locked up so tight by the state, if you shoved a piece of coal into their network, in a week you'd have a diamond...

Hey guys, let's stay on topic here. Love this deck or bash it either way.
If you want to talk casino/gambling please start a new topic.
Thanks

For me, I don't think the deck is too bad. It's definitely not the same old, same old from Madison. I received my 2 decks today.

OK.  CP, can we call this a truce and halt it here?  If not, make a new topic in the Parlor and we'll carry on there.

The deck - it's not the most attractive deck I've ever seen.  They're really stretching the casino metaphor with this one.  And I have yet to find anyone that really loves those side-only borders, on this and on the Hustlers.  When they came out, I yawned and ignored them.  Go full bleed or don't - this is an example of trying to please everyone and in the end pleasing no one.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 02:46:15 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2015, 08:04:44 AM »
 

Card Player

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@ Don

Your right about the casino being a closed system. I was being too general and grouping all automated systems together including online gambling. Online gambling is constantly getting hacked. I remember hearing one story about one of the poker sites being hacked by its own employee for years. I'm sure there would be a way an employee of a gambling machine manufacture to rig a machine the same way.

The problem with the theory that casinos would rather go all automated because it saves them money is the other end of the spectrum. Losing customers and less money volume to another casinos willing to keep a human element present. I think there needs to be a balance of both and there is in most casinos. Plus a casino that becomes over automated risks the loss of customers that no longer see the point in traveling to a casino because of online app options.

I'm thinking most casino's (where applicable) will never 100% lose physical gaming tables and risk the loss of business.  Casinos rely on "volume" as much as they do profit margin. It's guys like me that prefer physical gaming, that brings people with them to the casino (family, friends, etc.).

It would be a sad day when the WSOP becomes automated.

And precisely because online gaming with casinos are frequent targets of hackers, you will probably never see a casino with Internet-connected gaming terminals.  So the argument about neighboring casinos doesn't stand up as well under such circumstances.


http://www.theborgata.com/press/press-releases/current/online-gaming-apps-launched

I know your speaking about New York. I'm generally speaking about all casino's in the United States where legal. The casino real money online apps is happening. It's not just online poker gaming companies anymore. I'm sure more casino's will be getting in on the action. Why travel to a casino for fully automated gaming when you can do it from your smart device or home computer. I think the human element needs to stay in place to give people a reason to continue going to a casino. If it were up to me, I would flat out stop playing if everything became automated. I'm sure I'm not alone. I will never gamble at a New York Casino as long as the human element is removed.

Quote
OK.  CP, can we call this a truce and halt it here?

I would say start a new topic but I'm done. I'm trying to keep my average posts per day below 1. :)) Truce!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 03:37:07 PM by Card Player »
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2015, 03:50:44 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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@ Don

Your right about the casino being a closed system. I was being too general and grouping all automated systems together including online gambling. Online gambling is constantly getting hacked. I remember hearing one story about one of the poker sites being hacked by its own employee for years. I'm sure there would be a way an employee of a gambling machine manufacture to rig a machine the same way.

The problem with the theory that casinos would rather go all automated because it saves them money is the other end of the spectrum. Losing customers and less money volume to another casinos willing to keep a human element present. I think there needs to be a balance of both and there is in most casinos. Plus a casino that becomes over automated risks the loss of customers that no longer see the point in traveling to a casino because of online app options.

I'm thinking most casino's (where applicable) will never 100% lose physical gaming tables and risk the loss of business.  Casinos rely on "volume" as much as they do profit margin. It's guys like me that prefer physical gaming, that brings people with them to the casino (family, friends, etc.).

It would be a sad day when the WSOP becomes automated.

And precisely because online gaming with casinos are frequent targets of hackers, you will probably never see a casino with Internet-connected gaming terminals.  So the argument about neighboring casinos doesn't stand up as well under such circumstances.


http://www.theborgata.com/press/press-releases/current/online-gaming-apps-launched

I know your speaking about New York. I'm generally speaking about all casino's in the United States where legal. The casino real money online apps is happening. It's not just online poker gaming companies anymore. I'm sure more casino's will be getting in on the action. Why travel to a casino for fully automated gaming when you can do it from your smart device or home computer. I think the human element needs to stay in place to give people a reason to continue going to a casino. If it were up to me, I would flat out stop playing if everything became automated. I'm sure I'm not alone. I will never gamble at a New York Casino as long as the human element is removed.

Quote
OK.  CP, can we call this a truce and halt it here?

I would say start a new topic but I'm done. I'm trying to keep my average posts per day below 1. :)) Truce!

Ah, but the Borgata is the most successful Atlantic City casino for one reason - it's not just a casino.  They have destination shopping, health spas, and so forth, making it much more interesting.  It's MORE than a casino, giving people more reason to come.  That's what will keep the casino business alive, especially in the era of so much competition.  People will be the attraction, but not necessarily on the casino floor.
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2015, 04:07:50 PM »
 

Card Player

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@ Don

Your right about the casino being a closed system. I was being too general and grouping all automated systems together including online gambling. Online gambling is constantly getting hacked. I remember hearing one story about one of the poker sites being hacked by its own employee for years. I'm sure there would be a way an employee of a gambling machine manufacture to rig a machine the same way.

The problem with the theory that casinos would rather go all automated because it saves them money is the other end of the spectrum. Losing customers and less money volume to another casinos willing to keep a human element present. I think there needs to be a balance of both and there is in most casinos. Plus a casino that becomes over automated risks the loss of customers that no longer see the point in traveling to a casino because of online app options.

I'm thinking most casino's (where applicable) will never 100% lose physical gaming tables and risk the loss of business.  Casinos rely on "volume" as much as they do profit margin. It's guys like me that prefer physical gaming, that brings people with them to the casino (family, friends, etc.).

It would be a sad day when the WSOP becomes automated.

And precisely because online gaming with casinos are frequent targets of hackers, you will probably never see a casino with Internet-connected gaming terminals.  So the argument about neighboring casinos doesn't stand up as well under such circumstances.


http://www.theborgata.com/press/press-releases/current/online-gaming-apps-launched

I know your speaking about New York. I'm generally speaking about all casino's in the United States where legal. The casino real money online apps is happening. It's not just online poker gaming companies anymore. I'm sure more casino's will be getting in on the action. Why travel to a casino for fully automated gaming when you can do it from your smart device or home computer. I think the human element needs to stay in place to give people a reason to continue going to a casino. If it were up to me, I would flat out stop playing if everything became automated. I'm sure I'm not alone. I will never gamble at a New York Casino as long as the human element is removed.

Quote
OK.  CP, can we call this a truce and halt it here?

I would say start a new topic but I'm done. I'm trying to keep my average posts per day below 1. :)) Truce!

Ah, but the Borgata is the most successful Atlantic City casino for one reason - it's not just a casino.  They have destination shopping, health spas, and so forth, making it much more interesting.  It's MORE than a casino, giving people more reason to come.  That's what will keep the casino business alive, especially in the era of so much competition.  People will be the attraction, but not necessarily on the casino floor.

I thought we had a truce? :)) Are you withdrawing your truce? lmao

Yes, many of the "good" casinos have restaurants, shopping, health spas, and so forth. Coincidentally those same casino's have both gaming tables with human dealers and automated games.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 04:10:28 PM by Card Player »
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2015, 05:03:17 PM »
 

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Don't make me step in and separate you two!  8)

Remember there is a rather average deck of cards to be discussed here...    ;)
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2015, 04:53:05 AM »
 

HolyJJ

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Okay, right off the bat: I got it totally wrong brother -- the deck obviously didn't sell out in 48 hours. I guess I missed off the zero on the end of that number. 

This deck which was basically all an out Madison deck which has a back story like this one really should have sold out fast. Whilst most will say that Ellusionist missed the mark on the design, I'd be more inclined to say that they missed the mark on the hype and promotion. The deck arrived without any real fanfare, and just kind of released on an odd day. 

Well, Madison's FB page claims that the decks are "almost gone" and the latest e-mail from Ellusionist claims that they ‎are "selling fast". With something like 2900 left out of 5000, I'm not at all convinced. 

At this rate, there'll be enough decks for E to give away in multiple promotions/competitions every single day for about 5 years.‎‎

Anyway, I got deck and whilst it does have the usual mediocre quality of USPCC, I do like the look of the cards and the side borders. I think the deck wouldn't look out of place at an expensive bar or casino.

Madison did claim that the cards had a similar stock and feel to the Rounders... and so I'm guessing that he must have meant the Private Reserve Rounders, because to me that's what they feel like -- the card stock is stiffer/snappier than the original black rounders. ‎I like the fact that Madison sticks to using USPCC's standard coating/finish instead of that horrible magic finish.

One thing that surprised me was that despite having a casino theme, the cards are not traditionally cut. Therefore the top and bottom edges take a bit of a battering during shuffle work, and because the dark design is bled to those edges, ‎the damage becomes visible, and you end up getting marked cards during games! 
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2015, 06:41:47 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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HolyJJ, you nailed a lot of good point there.

I could be mistaken, but I was led to understand that they were planning to hold back somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 decks, similar to what they did with the red Artifice deck.  If that's the case, then yes, they are indeed nearly sold out.  Otherwise, yeah, it's taking a while, but they are over the halfway mark.

I'm firmly of the opinion that if I wasn't given the deck as a result of still being a Black Club member, I would probably never have purchased this, for the reasons you pointed out and the reason why I never bought the Hustlers, which had the same flawed border AND a really goofball back design.
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2015, 08:59:09 AM »
 

HolyJJ

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Thanks for that info Don -- I genuinely had no idea how many Red Artifice decks Ellusionist had held back for promos/giveaways. I had taken a totally random guess at something like 750-1000, but that was just an arbitrary range. The numbers you've mentioned sounds pretty realistic... and so I guess the Lions Den hasn't done too badly, and that there is truth (albeit in a not-so-obvious manner) to what DM and Ellusionist are saying.

This time next week, the deck will probably not be around for purchase, kind of like what they did with the Red Artifice and Sultan Treasury... alternatively, they can take it in the Orange Hustlers direction whereby they are only available for purchase in the Black Club store. Another wild guess would make me lean towards the latter.‎

Had this deck been a T11 release, teaser photos would have first surfaced around July last year. I think maybe Ellusionist took it for granted that Lions Den would be an easy sell.

‎Whilst I did like the simple style Madison Rounders (during the time where that design style was still‎ limited to the Wynn decks), now even that back design is becoming common. Now that Chris Chelko's WI Gamesters are going to be released this year, I don't ‎see myself even thinking of Rounders again, seeing as the Gamesters have the same style, same sort of colours, but far superior card stock and coating, and much more practical face design. Madison needs to do something new.

After the Black Kings and Madison Revolvers, I'm really hoping that DM really will try something very different. On the sales page for the Black Rounders, the guy said that he believed that beautiful things are either very simple or very intricate. Well, we've seen a ton of overly simple stuff from him for a couple of years‎... and so I really hope now he takes a shot at the other extreme -- something that actually looks like hundreds of hours of design work was required! 
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2015, 10:18:39 AM »
 

Card Player

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Okay, right off the bat: I got it totally wrong brother -- the deck obviously didn't sell out in 48 hours. I guess I missed off the zero on the end of that number.

This deck which was basically all an out Madison deck which has a back story like this one really should have sold out fast. Whilst most will say that Ellusionist missed the mark on the design, I'd be more inclined to say that they missed the mark on the hype and promotion. The deck arrived without any real fanfare, and just kind of released on an odd day.

Well, Madison's FB page claims that the decks are "almost gone" and the latest e-mail from Ellusionist claims that they ‎are "selling fast". With something like 2900 left out of 5000, I'm not at all convinced.

At this rate, there'll be enough decks for E to give away in multiple promotions/competitions every single day for about 5 years.‎‎

Anyway, I got deck and whilst it does have the usual mediocre quality of USPCC, I do like the look of the cards and the side borders. I think the deck wouldn't look out of place at an expensive bar or casino.

Madison did claim that the cards had a similar stock and feel to the Rounders... and so I'm guessing that he must have meant the Private Reserve Rounders, because to me that's what they feel like -- the card stock is stiffer/snappier than the original black rounders. ‎I like the fact that Madison sticks to using USPCC's standard coating/finish instead of that horrible magic finish.

One thing that surprised me was that despite having a casino theme, the cards are not traditionally cut. Therefore the top and bottom edges take a bit of a battering during shuffle work, and because the dark design is bled to those edges, ‎the damage becomes visible, and you end up getting marked cards during games!

I don't think Ellusionist (E) missed the mark. I think they got it right. That's why only 5000 were printed. It was the same amount of hype as any other deck they sell. The only difference is black club got one free. As a company, you don't advertise less because the you don't think something will sell well, you advertise more. I believe E started seeing the writing on the wall with the Kings deck. IMHO, I believe E over-shot the print run with Kings. When they realized it was not selling as well as they thought , that's when all the questionable sell-outs and fast back in-stock sales techniques started happening.  They probably had 15,000 Kings made. Taking that into consideration, they lowered the print run for the Lion's Den and raised the price per deck. The back story is terrible but it's probably true considering what I've seen of DM's cards these days. E does have the final say as to what decks they print, invest money into and sell on their website. I do hold E responsible for the over production of Madison decks, if for nothing more then allowing it to happen through them. They can always tell DM, No!
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 12:18:51 PM by Card Player »
 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2015, 02:41:18 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thanks for that info Don -- I genuinely had no idea how many Red Artifice decks Ellusionist had held back for promos/giveaways. I had taken a totally random guess at something like 750-1000, but that was just an arbitrary range. The numbers you've mentioned sounds pretty realistic... and so I guess the Lions Den hasn't done too badly, and that there is truth (albeit in a not-so-obvious manner) to what DM and Ellusionist are saying.

The precise figure is that 5,000 Artifice decks in red were printed.  Ellusionist still feels (rightfully so) that this qualifies as "rare," though many collectors today would disagree.  Of the 5,000, 3,000 were made available for sale, a sale that lasted less than a day.  It was exceptionally difficult to purchase because the volume of buyers completely overloaded E's capacity to handle them.  Sales were limited to not more than a brick per person, and they sold at the same prices as the other Artifice decks previously released (v1 blue).  I think it was about $6.95.  2,000 were held back for promotional use, giveaways, contest prizes, etc.

Following the release date, it was the deck in shortest supply at E - while Gold Arcane and Bicycle Black Ghost 1st Edition were made in equally-small numbers and predated this release by months if not years, those decks were never made available for purchase.  At this point, I know they're out of BG1E entirely - they announced it months ago - and the stocks of Gold Arcane and Red Artifice can't be far behind.  Stocks of all three decks were heavily depleted during a holiday season promotion for December 2012.  The oldest "go-to" giveaway deck they have now would likely be the Red LTD deck.
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2015, 10:37:24 PM »
 

HudsonDesign

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Just a couple of weeks ago a new bunch of BG popped up again though...didn't they?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204950566699885&set=gm.696969740401968&type=1

 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2015, 12:56:16 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Just a couple of weeks ago a new bunch of BG popped up again though...didn't they?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204950566699885&set=gm.696969740401968&type=1

Your link is dead.  Copy the photo and upload it next time - that way it can't vanish.

Are you certain that the deck you saw wasn't the still-in-print SECOND edition?
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2015, 06:58:07 AM »
 

HudsonDesign

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Sorry Don,

Closed group maybe.

Anyway, Can't confirm 100% but this popped up a few weeks ago.

 

Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2015, 12:10:48 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Sorry Don,

Closed group maybe.

Anyway, Can't confirm 100% but this popped up a few weeks ago.

I can confirm from the tuck box that it is indeed Bicycle Black Ghost 1st Edition in the foreground.  The taller stacks in the background and to the left are of Bicycle Black Tigers - at this angle and range, I can't tell if they're first run or not, nor can I see the telltale red indicating that it's not the all-white pips model, now discontinued and sold out.

The BG1E decks are shown being autographed by Peter McKinnon, who is in the photo.  The decks on the top of those stacks of decks have been signed by at least two people, signatures visible in the top left and bottom left of the back of the tuck box - and judging from the spacing, there are more autographs to come.  There's a stack of Black Club collector boxes on the right.

Just past the Black Tigers is a short stack of boxes.  They're hard to read, but judging from the logo on them, they're Pyro Fireshooters.

If forced to guess, I'd say this is an enticement for new or lapsed BC members to join/rejoin.
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Re: The Lions Den Casino & Lounge (Madison/Ellusionist)
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2015, 11:19:30 AM »
 

Marcus

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The Tigers are the red pips edition. The BG1's in the picture are most likely the very last of them. It's common practice to hold back a handful to cover any issues with damaged ones, these are probably those now being signed and (I would guess) will pop up in the E Rewards store.
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