Bicycle® Sweater Back Playing Cards by Eric Twiddy (KS)

[EvanEssence]

Bicycle® Sweater Back Playing Cards (Relaunch)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1351947646/bicycle-sweater-back-playing-cards?ref=discovery

The sweater back playing cards...

[Rob Wright]

Evan, I split your topic from the 2015 release list. That is for decks that are already made and shipping, or newly up for sale this year. If you find a new project on KS, just make a new topic for it. It's all good. You'll figure it out.

I kind of like these. Neat idea

[HudsonDesign]

Holy cow!

Just noticed the goal!
 

[Don Boyer]

Holy cow!

Just noticed the goal!
 

It's a pretty ambitious goal, to say the least.  Many projects that are this ambitious right out of the gate tend to run into problems raising the cash needed.  It's generally better to offer things like the second deck color and the cloth-textured backs as stretch goals for hitting the funding and having more to play with.

[Fess]

What a fun deck. I find I'm liking the card backs quite a bit. The courts, they're fun but I think if the sweater pattern was shrunk down to fit them it would be more charming. That's just me though.

That is quite the ambitious funding goal and I agree, it would be nice to see a second deck as a stretch goal or a later campaign. That's not the case though, so good vibes to these! I really hope these fund. The playing card world can absolutely use courts wearing sweaters haha.

By the by, I really like the Jokers!

[HolyJJ]

I agree with Fes, word for word.

I like the simple, yet affective design. Very neat, and it lends itself brilliantly to a deck of cards. The sweater pattern doesn't even appear to look forced on the courts. Nice.

But yeah, the funding goal is crazy. For that amount, I'd be expecting them to bring back and use the defunct Jerrys Nugget stock and coating!

[Will W.]

These I could see being picked up by major retail outlets.  I could see these being sold by the thousands through wal-mart or target stores.  Not to offend anyone, that was just the first thought that popped in my head... 

[Fess]

These I could see being picked up by major retail outlets.  I could see these being sold by the thousands through wal-mart or target stores.  Not to offend anyone, that was just the first thought that popped in my head...

I agree with you 100%, quite the compliment to the deck creator in my opinion. If, for whatever reason, these don't fund. I hope USPCC makes a play to buy the design from Eric and produces them on their lovely web press. These are charming in a way that would go over quite well in mass market.

[Will W.]

These I could see being picked up by major retail outlets.  I could see these being sold by the thousands through wal-mart or target stores.  Not to offend anyone, that was just the first thought that popped in my head...

I agree with you 100%, quite the compliment to the deck creator in my opinion. If, for whatever reason, these don't fund. I hope USPCC makes a play to buy the design from Eric and produces them on their lovely web press. These are charming in a way that would go over quite well in mass market.

Well you never know these days.  Most people take the word Walmart as an insult anymore.   

[Don Boyer]

These I could see being picked up by major retail outlets.  I could see these being sold by the thousands through wal-mart or target stores.  Not to offend anyone, that was just the first thought that popped in my head...

I agree with you 100%, quite the compliment to the deck creator in my opinion. If, for whatever reason, these don't fund. I hope USPCC makes a play to buy the design from Eric and produces them on their lovely web press. These are charming in a way that would go over quite well in mass market.

"Lovely" web press?  Even when companies like E or D&D order in quantities like 20,000 or 30,000, they still use the sheet-fed press.  The web press isn't as good, having been designed to make cheap decks in huge quantities, like Bicycle Standard, Bee Diamond Back, Aviator, Streamline, Tally Ho, Hoyle Shellbacks, etc., and large casino orders.

When the company was still in Cincinnati/Norwood proper and not the suburbs on the other side of the Kentucky border, there were some decks that got made on the web press and were considered "superior" to the sheet fed press.  That had nothing to do with how "great" the web press was and everything to do with the fact that the old sheet-fed press was being held together by sweat, grease and wishful thinking!  Now that the new plant has new hardware, the sheet-fed press is considered the superior of the two.  Even something like Jackson Robinson's Civil War decks were likely produced on the sheet-fed press, despite being a "mass market" deck.

[Rob Wright]

I hate to say it, but I think this one is dead in the water already. Almost a day in and just about $900 raised. Unfortunately this guy shot himself in the foot with this funding goal. $38k is a huge number for even a well known designer. The Imps Gamesters where a highly anticipated launch. Yes it only took 3 days to get to it's $25k goal, but yet with just a few hours left in the project, it is under $35K. Only 2 live projects are over $38K now (Black Fontaine $47K & Arcana $95k)-2 very well know designers. No one else is even close. Only 2 other projects (Collectors Bicycle $85K & Tendril Ascendant $48K) since Dec 1, 2014. Again 2 very established designers.  $38k for a first time card project is just a huge number, also a huge red flag.

[Fess]

"Lovely" web press?  Even when companies like E or D&D order in quantities like 20,000 or 30,000, they still use the sheet-fed press.  The web press isn't as good, having been designed to make cheap decks in huge quantities, like Bicycle Standard, Bee Diamond Back, Aviator, Streamline, Tally Ho, Hoyle Shellbacks, etc., and large casino orders.

When the company was still in Cincinnati/Norwood proper and not the suburbs on the other side of the Kentucky border, there were some decks that got made on the web press and were considered "superior" to the sheet fed press.  That had nothing to do with how "great" the web press was and everything to do with the fact that the old sheet-fed press was being held together by sweat, grease and wishful thinking!  Now that the new plant has new hardware, the sheet-fed press is considered the superior of the two.  Even something like Jackson Robinson's Civil War decks were likely produced on the sheet-fed press, despite being a "mass market" deck.

Good to know. I still think the web press would be great for these. (Is it lovely? It's lovely. I don't have one, would be cool if I did.) Pound out this design for a while and stick a brick of each color in every walgreens across the nation at a great price point, that's a couple thousand and change shy of 200,000 decks. Leftovers could be moved in the bike shop, I think these would sell well in the walgreens setting. Sure it would be bikes and sweaters for the next couple years but at the moment it seems like it's bikes and zombies, I dare say sweaters would be a step forward. Apparently they have a machine sitting there ready to go haha, since everyone is having their decks printed on sheet fed presses.

I do hope the campaign funds, and I'm still sending it good vibes.

I hate to say it, but I think this one is dead in the water already. Almost a day in and just about $900 raised. Unfortunately this guy shot himself in the foot with this funding goal. $38k is a huge number for even a well known designer. The Imps Gamesters where a highly anticipated launch. Yes it only took 3 days to get to it's $25k goal, but yet with just a few hours left in the project, it is under $35K. Only 2 live projects are over $38K now (Black Fontaine $47K & Arcana $95k)-2 very well know designers. No one else is even close. Only 2 other projects (Collectors Bicycle $85K & Tendril Ascendant $48K) since Dec 1, 2014. Again 2 very established designers.  $38k for a first time card project is just a huge number, also a huge red flag.

I agree and I also think it may be price per deck is hurting him. At $13($16 international) a deck he's charging flat $10 a deck. These would be great at $6 making them $9 with domestic shipping per deck and a more moderate funding goal. Sure the price drops a bit as the tiers go up but not by enough for it to matter. Kickstarter supporters are usually in for 2 - 4 decks, that's the backer he should be targeting.

Incidentally, haha, I'm not into the whole sweater cloth on the back of my tuck thing. Anyone think that's a good idea? It strikes me as odd. For some reason I instantly thought, "No thanks, I don't want smelly old sweater on my tuck." my mind just went instantly to mothballs haha.

Edit: I couldn't not pledge haha. Even at that price point, I'm in for a few.

[Eric_Twiddy]

Hi guys, my name is Eric Twiddy.  I'm the creator of the Sweater Back deck.  Thanks for discussing my project in your forum!  I do agree, my goal is quite lofty!  I'm trying an all-or-nothing approach.  There are no stretch goals.  Everything is immediately available!  Please continue to discuss and spread the word! 

[Rob Wright]

Eric, thanks for stopping by. I have to say I really like the cards. I even like the sweater tuck.
As a first time project, you are unfortunately up against a big hill. People are scared to back projects like this, because you are unproven. I think it's good that you have over compensated on the money. You never want to be short, but I do think you have room to squeeze the numbers. At $50 for the 2 touch decks is quite a bit of money. I'm not saying they are not worth it, but it's a lot to shell out for a "novelty". You should have an option to get 1 touch deck. You also plan on paying for 1,000 touch decks with this project, but only selling 500. That's great if you get the funding. I'm just throwing a number out here, but say you could take off $4,000 from funding, and only do 500 touch decks, and say you got to $35,000 funding. At least you can do the project. You goal should be based on getting the minimum amount of decks printed. Then if you over fund, get the extra decks if you want. USPCC's min is 2.500 of each color. They will split that 2,500 into 2 different tucks, meaning you could have 2,000 in standard tucks, and 500 in the touch tucks. Have you talked to them about doing that?
Either way I wish you the best. If it doesn't get funded this time, don't give up.

[Eric_Twiddy]

Yeah, since I have two separate deck designs (colors), they said I have to do 2,500 minimum order of both.  It's 500 of each color for the touchy-feely deck, so 1000 total.  thanks for the encouragement!  I definitely won't give up, I figured I would swing for the fences on my first try.  But if it doesn't get funded I will come out with a lower goal and do only one deck without interior printing, maybe actually do stretch goals for everything else.  We'll see!  I'm staying positive and hopping for the best!  Thanks again!

[Rob Wright]

Yeah, since I have two separate deck designs (colors), they said I have to do 2,500 minimum order of both.  It's 500 of each color for the touchy-feely deck, so 1000 total.  thanks for the encouragement!  I definitely won't give up, I figured I would swing for the fences on my first try.  But if it doesn't get funded I will come out with a lower goal and do only one deck without interior printing, maybe actually do stretch goals for everything else.  We'll see!  I'm staying positive and hopping for the best!  Thanks again!

I know 2,500 of each, but are they saying you have to do at least 500 each of the touchy-feely deck(3,000 total per color)? or could you only do 250 extra per color(2,750 total per color)? or even 2,000 standard tucks + 500 touchy-feely(2,500 total per color)?

[Eric_Twiddy]

Oh ok, I gotcha... No, I just have to order the tuck cases extra at $2.50 each (uncut) and then my process would be to cut them out with a circuit and then assemble them with the fabric, open a standard deck and scrap the standard tuck case and put the cards in the newly assembled touchy feely tuck case.  So I wouldnt need to order any extras as a minimum.

[Don Boyer]

Oh ok, I gotcha... No, I just have to order the tuck cases extra at $2.50 each (uncut) and then my process would be to cut them out with a circuit and then assemble them with the fabric, open a standard deck and scrap the standard tuck case and put the cards in the newly assembled touchy feely tuck case.  So I wouldnt need to order any extras as a minimum.

Use white cloth gloves when you transfer decks.  The oils on your skin can damage the cards before they reach the customer.

Should the project fail, you don't necessarily have to scale all the way back.  You want the deck to remain appealing to collectors; stripping off features will limit that appeal.  Consider instead starting with a single color, using the second color as a stretch goal.  You'd be able to cut your goal down a lot.

[Eric_Twiddy]

That's good advice for sure!  Thanks!

[Don Boyer]

That's good advice for sure!  Thanks!

I nearly forgot to mention - should your collectors prefer that the fancy cloth back version be wrapped in order to retain value better, I know that some magic shops carry something called a deck resealer.  You buy that (they're not expensive) and a stack of tuck box cellophane wrappers with tear strips and you can re-wrap any or all of those decks.

It would give you an interesting option: take perhaps 20% of the decks, re-wrap them and charge a small premium for the "collector's special" version you've just created!  But don't be surprised if now people clamor for wrapped AND unwrapped versions!

[Eric_Twiddy]

Cool, I didn't know that existed.  But I imagine those wouldn't fit my tuck case.  I added a 1/16" girth to the tuck case to accommodate the backing that would be needed to glue in the fabric panel.  I was planning on shrink wrapping these though. 

[sae2111]

I saw these on Kickstarted this morning. I'm a sucker for argyle... Cool deck.

[PurpleIce]

I'm out of action for a couple of weeks and i am not going through all the long posts. 

So i'll just glimpse through and give my opinions.

I really love the idea of the touchy-feely deck. It suits your theme and is a great novelty. Might not be super good for playing card games, but it is not meant for that purpose in the 1st place. This deck seems like a very nice and simply pleasing deck.

The biggest problem? Funding Goal is definitely too high. I am not too sure about the cost on the touchy feely decks, but probably you could try cutting a little on the standard decks. You probably put $49 on 4 decks ($12.25/deck) in hope of enticing people to get people to go for higher pledge tiers. I say just forget it. People won't give a hoot, not for $0.25 a deck from 4 to 6 decks. Rather, it makes people feel you are trying to squeeze every last dime out of them.

KS projects also requires a lot of momentum, but the high funding goal is a huge turnoff already. People see this and say it will not get funded and you lose a small percentage of your backers. Few days or a week goes by and people see the funding is not moving fast enough, and takes less notice of your deck, you probably lose another small percentage of your backers. It may not be a big deal for others, but for your high funding goal, momentum is probably a big issue.

Also as an unproven designer (not only in terms of design, but also in terms of delivery of the project) people tend to wait awhile to see how the project goes. Your project also lacks certain pledge tiers that make people commit early on in fear of losing out a good deal. Sure, you have the limited feely decks, but there is more than enough to go around at that price point. There is also no EB tiers that makes people just jump in and hold onto a good deal at the start. Also, hope you don't take this the wrong way, but $10 for a signature seems a tad too high as well. It just gives the impression that your whole project is highly priced, even though it is not necessarily so. When you have a high funding goal, people will see how you reach that goal, and scrutinize on the prices.

Like what some of the other members have mentioned, go for a single colour and go for a lower funding goal. Use EB or more limited stuff to get the early push. Use stretch goals to get the project moving, to get the second colour out, and hopefully to get your own profit moving as well.

Good luck to you. Cheers

[Don Boyer]

Yeah - what he said!

A lot of decks have no extra charge for an autograph.  Some people actually feel they REDUCE rather than enhance the value of the deck.  If you were David Blaine or David Copperfield, perhaps - but you aren't.  Some still like the autographs, though.

[Rob Wright]

Bicycle® Sweater Back Playing Cards (Relaunch) (Link also added to first post)



Relaunch starting with just 1 color.