Are all Vegas Casino cards created equal?

[pwhovey]

I'll be in Vegas for a couple of days in May and am going to pick up some decks of cards for my collection.  Are all Casino cards created equal or are the specific casinos that have better quality cards then others?  Let me know, thanks.

[HankMan]

I am not too sure too, but why don't you get 1 each. I will definitely buy 1 of each as a collection.

[Lee Asher]

 

I'll be in Vegas for a couple of days in May and am going to pick up some decks of cards for my collection.  Are all Casino cards created equal or are the specific casinos that have better quality cards then others?  Let me know, thanks.

No. Not all casino cards are created equal.

You'll find a handful of brands being used in the different casinos (Bees, Aristocrats, Carta Mundi, Paulson, and even Liberty). You'll also find the higher-end casinos in LV using branded Bee decks on their gaming tables (not including poker).

You should get your hands on these different decks, play around, and see which one you like the best. Then report back here, and tell us about your findings.

Hope that helps.

[pwhovey]

I'm only there for a day and a bit so I'll see what I can get my hands on and let you know.  Pictures and details to follow (in May).

Thanks.

[Fess]

Some of the casino's also use Gemaco decks in a preshuffled box. I don't remember what they're called, maybe something like Gempax. So if you happen to land at one of those casino's it could be very likely you'll get a plain jane blue or red paper tuck with a view window if they offer the used decks for sale.

Keep an eye out though. There's an absolute ton of playing cards in Vegas pretty much everywhere! Vegas is a blast for playing cards and chips. I think you'll have a crazy fun time bouncing around there.

[HankMan]

Maybe 1 day I can save up some money to go to USA and visit Vegas for the playing cards.

[Don Boyer]

Some of the casino's also use Gemaco decks in a preshuffled box. I don't remember what they're called, maybe something like Gempax. So if you happen to land at one of those casino's it could be very likely you'll get a plain jane blue or red paper tuck with a view window if they offer the used decks for sale.

Keep an eye out though. There's an absolute ton of playing cards in Vegas pretty much everywhere! Vegas is a blast for playing cards and chips. I think you'll have a crazy fun time bouncing around there.

You'll probably find those preshuffled packs all over the place ever since this event last December - players racked up over $1.5 million dollars in winnings at the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City because Gemaco provided them with a "preshuffled" box that wasn't preshuffled at all.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/08/golden_nugget_suing_card_manuf.html

The lawsuits will likely take some time to get sorted out, I'm sure.  If I was a casino's card security manager, I'd be dumping them Gemaco preshuffled decks like hot, worm-ridden potatoes and buying new decks elsewhere.

[HankMan]

You'll probably find those preshuffled packs all over the place ever since this event last December - players racked up over $1.5 million dollars in winnings at the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City because Gemaco provided them with a "preshuffled" box that wasn't preshuffled at all.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/08/golden_nugget_suing_card_manuf.html

The lawsuits will likely take some time to get sorted out, I'm sure.  If I was a casino's card security manager, I'd be dumping them Gemaco preshuffled decks like hot, worm-ridden potatoes and buying new decks elsewhere.

Don't you think they will just destroy every single deck rather than selling it?
In Australia, the casino is no longer sell their playing cards, even the used playing cards.

[Don Boyer]

You'll probably find those preshuffled packs all over the place ever since this event last December - players racked up over $1.5 million dollars in winnings at the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City because Gemaco provided them with a "preshuffled" box that wasn't preshuffled at all.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/08/golden_nugget_suing_card_manuf.html

The lawsuits will likely take some time to get sorted out, I'm sure.  If I was a casino's card security manager, I'd be dumping them Gemaco preshuffled decks like hot, worm-ridden potatoes and buying new decks elsewhere.

Don't you think they will just destroy every single deck rather than selling it?
In Australia, the casino is no longer sell their playing cards, even the used playing cards.

I don't know about Australia, but in the US, businesses will usually try very hard to avoid throwing out what can be resold, even if it's sold at a loss - getting something for it is better than getting nothing.  This isn't a defect that affects people safety or turns your hair green - it's a pack of cards, unshuffled when it is supposed to be shuffled.  In other words, a pack that's no different than most of the new packs available pretty much everywhere, except that the design was floor-used in a casino at one point in time.

What I was implying was that I'd drop Gemaco as my card supplier and find an alternative.  Their cards are inferior in quality to USPC to start with, but I'm guessing they also cost less.

Interesting note: Gaming Partners International (GPI) are the present owners of both Gemaco and Paulson.  Paulson cards are now also available in "Gempak" preshuffled multiple-deck boxes.  That makes two brands I'd be wary of, were I the one who buys decks for a casino...

[Fess]

I didn't know that about Paulson. Gemaco makes a decent playing card though, I have no problem picking up a Gemaco made deck. The most fun one that comes to mind is the Lennart Green deck. Are Paulson and Gemaco decks being pumped out of the same facility now as well?

On Casinos I think those cats know the tried and true methods for deck shuffling and card use are the best, if they take a beating on something new it's on them for not doing their homework and having active trials run. It's not like they have a shortage of dealers who can fling hands out, nor the soft ware to recognize trends and actively calculate win/loss results from a video feed.

[Don Boyer]

I didn't know that about Paulson. Gemaco makes a decent playing card though, I have no problem picking up a Gemaco made deck. The most fun one that comes to mind is the Lennart Green deck. Are Paulson and Gemaco decks being pumped out of the same facility now as well?

On Casinos I think those cats know the tried and true methods for deck shuffling and card use are the best, if they take a beating on something new it's on them for not doing their homework and having active trials run. It's not like they have a shortage of dealers who can fling hands out, nor the soft ware to recognize trends and actively calculate win/loss results from a video feed.

Paulson cards are made in Las Vegas, Nevada, while Gemācos are made in Blue Springs, Missouri.

Which "cats" are you referring to?  Gemāco?  (Finally found the way to make an "ā" instead of just an "a"...)

GPI provided them with a product that was labeled as "Verified Preshuffled Multipaks" and was indeed supposed to be preshuffled - but it wasn't.  The casino didn't learn of this until after a "multipack" was in play and several hands were dealt - they only see the cards facing up, not the ones facing down.  It wasn't blackjack, but mini-baccarat - a game I have to confess I'm not as familiar with.  There's no "trial runs" when putting new cards into play - they've probably been getting the Gempaks for a while already without a hitch.

I think that kind of product is already on its way out, anyway.  I've seen casinos use a device I can only describe as some kind of "progressive reshuffler" - you scoop up some cards, drop them in the machine, and rather than reshuffling just those cards and putting them at the back of the shoe, it reshuffles the cards and drops them randomly in the shoe - in essence, it's reshuffling the entire shoe and not just the recently-used cards.  A system like this throws card counting straight out the window as well as eliminating the need for pre-shuffled decks.

[Worst Bower]

Gemaco was also in the news over poorly designed back patterns that could easily be edge sorted.

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/04/sorting-out-the-law-behind-phil-ivey-s-edge-sorting-debacle-18054.htm

[Don Boyer]

That article is actually very good - it barely touches on the claims against Gemaco, as those are pretty straight-forward, but more thoroughly goes over the claims against Ivey et al. which, if pursued as written, could result in some serious lawsuits against the casinos themselves.

A very worthwhile read.