Madison Presents: SWE Playing Cards

[runIt]

In general, Ellusionist used to be a great brand for cards.  Ever since the Madison series started, though, it's become pretty humdrum and boring.  This deck is no exception - it's about as underwhelming as a deck gets for me.  It's a shame that the same company that came up with the Arcane deck and the Artifice deck is producing this...

I think the people behind these great decks are no longer part of E. Lee, Jason, etc. And you're right, feels like E decks started going downhill eversince DM started his decks.

[Card Player]

In general, Ellusionist used to be a great brand for cards.  Ever since the Madison series started, though, it's become pretty humdrum and boring.  This deck is no exception - it's about as underwhelming as a deck gets for me.  It's a shame that the same company that came up with the Arcane deck and the Artifice deck is producing this...

I think the people behind these great decks are no longer part of E. Lee, Jason, etc. And you're right, feels like E decks started going downhill eversince DM started his decks.

It's not just Ellusionist though. If this forum is any measure of the current industry, there's not much to get excited about. I think custom playing cards have hit the "last days of Amy Winehouse" stage. You still have those devoted fans that will support a company blindly but most of us know it's not what it used to be.

[Justin O.]

In general, Ellusionist used to be a great brand for cards.  Ever since the Madison series started, though, it's become pretty humdrum and boring.  This deck is no exception - it's about as underwhelming as a deck gets for me.  It's a shame that the same company that came up with the Arcane deck and the Artifice deck is producing this...

I think the people behind these great decks are no longer part of E. Lee, Jason, etc. And you're right, feels like E decks started going downhill eversince DM started his decks.

It's not just Ellusionist though. If this forum is any measure of the current industry, there's not much to get excited about. I think custom playing cards have hit the "last days of Amy Whitehouse" stage. You still have those devoted fans that will support a company blindly but most of us know it's not what it used to be.

I just think the bulk of quality is coming out independently right now. I think the T11s and D&Ds have been puting out less and less quality lately, but Uusi and Dead on Paper, and of course Kings Wild Project have been killing it at every turn. It's just an era of indy decks right now, I'm sure the big names will hit their stride again soon.

[chas0039]

Amy Winehouse.

[Don Boyer]

I just think the bulk of quality is coming out independently right now. I think the T11s and D&Ds have been puting out less and less quality lately, but Uusi and Dead on Paper, and of course Kings Wild Project have been killing it at every turn. It's just an era of indy decks right now, I'm sure the big names will hit their stride again soon.

Don't be so sure.  Companies, even small ones, have an unfortunate tendency to move more slowly and cautiously the more employees they have.  Even a small company like T11 or E has between a dozen and two dozen employees.  If they were smart, they'd be recruiting some of the successful independent talent, but I've seen none of that happening.  They're still trying to make it happen on their own, as if Kickstarter never existed.  Magic tricks, they're still doing OK with - but cards?  Nope.

If magic had the same revolution at KS that cards have, those guys would be out of business.

[Card Player]

Amy Winehouse.

Yes, her too! Lol

[bdawg923]

"The must have deck of 2015"
um. just no.

"you guys almost crashed our servers buying them"
Maybe (singular) server?

"overwhelming response literally flooded social media"
Someone doesn't know what literally means.

Ellusionist marketing has been over the top sensationalist recently and it hasn't changed with this mediocre deck. I got mine yesterday (paid only shipping so at least it only cost very little). I think Ellusionist just doesn't care what they put out anymore because people buy their decks anyway. The back design is horrible. There's no effort anymore from them. The one cool thing about this deck is the tuckbox feels like a playing card. But otherwise, it's a poorly designed deck.

[chas0039]

So what is your trick for getting free cards?

[bdawg923]

So what is your trick for getting free cards?

No trick, just a black club membership. I know it's not "free" but there's no extra cost above the membership which I have mainly for discounts.

[Don Boyer]

"The must have deck of 2015"
um. just no.

"you guys almost crashed our servers buying them"
Maybe (singular) server?

"overwhelming response literally flooded social media"
Someone doesn't know what literally means.

Ellusionist marketing has been over the top sensationalist recently and it hasn't changed with this mediocre deck. I got mine yesterday (paid only shipping so at least it only cost very little). I think Ellusionist just doesn't care what they put out anymore because people buy their decks anyway. The back design is horrible. There's no effort anymore from them. The one cool thing about this deck is the tuckbox feels like a playing card. But otherwise, it's a poorly designed deck.

It was precisely for this reason I dropped my Black Club membership when it came up for renewal.  I'd been burned the previous year, not getting a lot of value for the money, and their free deck offer sounded ridiculous after having seen the blah and ho-hum decks they've been releasing recently.  It was nowhere near enough to entice me to renew.  I already have more magic than I know what to do with and never enough time to learn it all, so cards were the big draw for me - and they ended up serving not as an attractant, but as a repellant.  Daniel Madison's a nice guy and all, and so's Peter McKinnon, but it's long past the time that they should get more fresh designs from newer designers.

For me, the nadir was the Hustlers (white borders on the sides - but not the top and bottom?) and the Prohibition series (I don't buy anything that promotes alcohol or tobacco, even though the specific brands were fictitious, and if I had kids, I wouldn't let them buy them, either).  From there forward, for me, it was "Why bother?"  They'd almost do better to focus on their magic and ditch the cards, but apparently there's enough fanboy enthusiasm out there that they're still selling them, because otherwise they wouldn't still be making them.  Only fools and wealthy people looking for tax write-offs make items for sale that no one wants.

[HolyJJ]

Right then, I finally got to try out this deck -- I got myself a few, because I wanted to create some Negative-Stripper decks out of them.

First the positives:

(1) The deck is traditionally cut... therefore much better for the type of slights and table work that EATC was based on. However, I'm not sure whether all SWE decks are traditionally cut, or whether I just got lucky... ‎oh well...

(2) Looks like USPCC printing precision has improved -- USPCC's signature "off by 2-3 millimetres for most cards" printing didn't seem to have affected by deck!

And then the negatives:

(1) The edges are still furry -- kind of like they've been cut with a saw. A blunt saw.

(2) The card stock and coating still sucks -- card is not durable at all, and when riffle shuffling, it feels like using a little more than a soft grip will cause nasty crimps.

(3) The back design is freakin' one way!! Urgh!!‎ Had I known this, I'd not have made the purchase. I thought it was supposed to be a clean, no frills, and simple tribute to Erdnase... without any funny business. 

The tuck has pretty much the same cardstock coating, and texture as all of Madison's logo decks, which is kind of cool in its own way. 

As they are one way, I can't really use them... and so I'll keep one in my collection (after all, it's Erdnase stuff!), and try and eBay off the rest.‎

[Don Boyer]

Are you certain they're traditionally cut?  As a general rule, not only does USPC not make custom decks with a traditional cut, but they actually discourage any customers that request them (except for casinos, apparently).  The given reason is that the reverse cut makes the edge more ragged - but that has to be the most lame, scientifically unfounded excuse I've ever heard.  Their standard, modern-cut decks aren't much better than ragged, either...

Right then, I finally got to try out this deck -- I got myself a few, because I wanted to create some Negative-Stripper decks out of them.

First the positives:

(1) The deck is traditionally cut... therefore much better for the type of slights and table work that EATC was based on. However, I'm not sure whether all SWE decks are traditionally cut, or whether I just got lucky... ‎oh well...

(2) Looks like USPCC printing precision has improved -- USPCC's signature "off by 2-3 millimetres for most cards" printing didn't seem to have affected by deck!

And then the negatives:

(1) The edges are still furry -- kind of like they've been cut with a saw. A blunt saw.

(2) The card stock and coating still sucks -- card is not durable at all, and when riffle shuffling, it feels like using a little more than a soft grip will cause nasty crimps.

(3) The back design is freakin' one way!! Urgh!!‎ Had I known this, I'd not have made the purchase. I thought it was supposed to be a clean, no frills, and simple tribute to Erdnase... without any funny business.

The tuck has pretty much the same cardstock coating, and texture as all of Madison's logo decks, which is kind of cool in its own way.

As they are one way, I can't really use them... and so I'll keep one in my collection (after all, it's Erdnase stuff!), and try and eBay off the rest.‎

[HolyJJ]

Hey Don.‎
‎
There's probably only one person on the planet that is more picky than me about the direction of the cut... Richard Turner! If a deck isn't traditionally cut, then for me it's pretty much useless, and a waste of my time. Before even looking at the AoS, courts, or even the back design, the first thing I check for is the cut.

I know the direction of the cut just my running my finger along the card edge... but then for added certainty, I give the deck some interlace riffle shuffles. The SWE deck that I've got is definitely traditionally cut -- 150% confirmed.
‎
I do however stress that the SWE deck I have got is traditionally cut... because that doesn't mean that every other deck is. 

Erik Mana told me that even when you ask USPCC to traditionally cut cards, even then there is no guarantee that every single deck will be traditionally cut. I believe him because:

(1) The first (black) Madison Rounders deck I received was traditionally cut... but every ‎other black Rounders deck I received had a modern cut.
‎
(2) The Madison Rounders Private Reserve deck was said to be traditionally cut... but the one I opened was NOT.

Therefore, the deck I got may indeed be an anomoly. 

Saying that though, some Ellusionist decks were  consistently traditionally cut. For example, Sultan Republic‎, Executive, and most recently, the white Kings deck.

You're right about the USPCC excuse for discouraging traditional cutting being seriously lame. USPCC cutting sucks whichever direction they cut in. I think the true reason they don't like traditional cuts is because of the extra work (turning the sheets face down).

Anyway, the one way thing has pissed me off a fair bit. The deck would have been great for me as negative-strippers, had it been a proper two way design!‎

[chas0039]

(2) The card stock and coating still sucks -- card is not durable at all, and when riffle shuffling, it feels like using a little more than a soft grip will cause nasty crimps.

I don't know if this is true throughout, but the hand full of Madison decks I have all are very thin.  One of my Dealers decks crimped a card after a shuffle, a riffle, and a cut.  I can now cut to the king of spades whenever I want.

Pretty to look at; not for everyday use at all.

[HolyJJ]

Chas,

You're spot on about the Dealers. Although I am a fan of both Daniel Madison and full bleed repeating back designs, the Dealers are one of my least favourite decks for the reason that you've mentioned -- they're probably the least durable deck I've handled in years.

The Madison Rounders are considered to be relatively soft... but still, nowhere near as flimsy as the Dealers.

The Madison Private Reserve rounders are much better -- thicker and stiffer than the regular rounders. From what I remember, the Sleepers deck was also a thicker stock than DM's usual.

[Don Boyer]

Part of the issue regarding the stocks is that USPC isn't consistent from batch to batch with its stock, according to what I've been told from someone who's made a LOT of USPC decks.  They no longer offer their stock by the industry standard of grams per square meter (gsm or g/m²), instead offering it by caliper thickness - and not a single, specific thickness, but a range of thickness between a minimum and maximum measurement.  Bicycle is the thinner range, Bee Casino is the thicker range - and the two ranges OVERLAP, so a thick Bicycle paper stock might be thicker than a thin Bee Casino stock.  Lovely, no? 

I'm waiting for confirmation of this information - or to be more accurate, official information from USPC themselves as far as what they do and don't offer their customers.  It's going to be in an upcoming article of CARD CULTURE Magazine.  The July issue already has such an article that covers stocks from the Expert Playing Card Company.  In the future, I'm hoping to do more reports with other manufacturers of a similar nature.

I know what you're talking about when it seems that some decks from a particular batch seem to be a face-down/traditional cut while others are a face-up/modern/standard cut - but the odds of it happening "accidentally" are slim to none.  The ultra-sophisticated process by which the traditional cut is applied...is that some employee stands between the press and the cutter and manually flips over the sheets after they've left the press and before they reach the cutter.  It takes longer, thus it costs more.  I'm shocked there's no machine that does this, especially with the big upgrade to the new plant in '09, but there you have it...