Avernum - by Passiones Playing Cards

[jsantafe]

It's weird this deck wasn't covered in the forum, I think it's really interesting.

It's based on the Hell part of the Divina Comedia from Dante. The idea is to present a series of sketched as if Dante would have drawn during his travel.

This project was opened for presale/reserve about a month or so ago, and today it will be fulfilled for those that opted-in. Soon it will be available for everyone.

http://www.passioneplayingcards.com/portfolio/avernum/





















It's my first thread here, so if there are too many pictures, I will edit.

Hope you like the deck. It won't have a typical tuck but will be paper wrapped with a string and a box inside, as you can see in the last picture. Not sure about the printer, though. Might be local in Italy, maybe Cartamundi?

[Don Boyer]

It's weird this deck wasn't covered in the forum, I think it's really interesting.

It's based on the Hell part of the Divina Comedia from Dante. The idea is to present a series of sketched as if Dante would have drawn during his travel.

This project was opened for presale/reserve about a month or so ago, and today it will be fulfilled for those that opted-in. Soon it will be available for everyone.

http://www.passioneplayingcards.com/portfolio/avernum/

It's my first thread here, so if there are too many pictures, I will edit.

Hope you like the deck. It won't have a typical tuck but will be paper wrapped with a string and a box inside, as you can see in the last picture. Not sure about the printer, though. Might be local in Italy, maybe Cartamundi?

At one time in recent history, I would have agreed that it's odd that it wasn't already covered.  But these days, with Kickstarter running maybe 30 deck projects or more at any given moment, it's more like par for the course.  There's too many releases to keep tabs on all of them quite so easily as it once was...

I hope it's not Cartamundi.  I haven't seen a decent-to-good Cartamundi deck yet.  Years and years ago, they used to manufacture Magic: the Gathering game cards, but they're much thinner than playing cards.

As far as the number of pictures, that's fine - but I generally prefer people upload pictures.  Over time, image links have an unfortunate tendency to end up broken because of a changed directory or a relocated/deleted photo file.  Uploads, on the other hand, will last as long as our servers will!  People tend to use links when posting a lot of pictures, though, and I can't blame them - we have a limit of five photos per post, and while the limit per photo is supposed to be 5 Mb, it's really more like 5 Mb in total.  Any time I upload a picture bigger than a megabyte, the system spits errors back at me.

[Cardfool]

Passione is the same group that did the Love is Smoke deck on KS (and a very limited previous version)

[jsantafe]

As far as the number of pictures, that's fine - but I generally prefer people upload pictures.  Over time, image links have an unfortunate tendency to end up broken because of a changed directory or a relocated/deleted photo file.  Uploads, on the other hand, will last as long as our servers will!  People tend to use links when posting a lot of pictures, though, and I can't blame them - we have a limit of five photos per post, and while the limit per photo is supposed to be 5 Mb, it's really more like 5 Mb in total.  Any time I upload a picture bigger than a megabyte, the system spits errors back at me.

Noted! I rarely upload pictures except from the app Tapatalk, it's fast and easy (don't want to switch topic, but why isn't PCF there?), but I will try doing it next time, thanks.
Fo example, when these cards get to me, maybe!

[ecNate]

Noted! I rarely upload pictures except from the app Tapatalk, it's fast and easy (don't want to switch topic, but why isn't PCF there?), but I will try doing it next time, thanks.
Fo example, when these cards get to me, maybe!

See here, but I'm with you.  PCF not supporting Tapatalk is why I'm usually found elsewhere.  http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=6510.0


As for the decks, I reserved one and thanks for the reminder, I need to look for my login details to get mine!

[Don Boyer]

Noted! I rarely upload pictures except from the app Tapatalk, it's fast and easy (don't want to switch topic, but why isn't PCF there?), but I will try doing it next time, thanks.
Fo example, when these cards get to me, maybe!

See here, but I'm with you.  PCF not supporting Tapatalk is why I'm usually found elsewhere.  http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=6510.0


As for the decks, I reserved one and thanks for the reminder, I need to look for my login details to get mine!

If either of you two fine gentlemen are interested in integrating our forum with Tapatalk, you should make a proposal to the owner, Tom Dawson (52plusjoker is his ID).  It sounds like a great thing to have - but to have it, someone has to make it happen, and I haven't been considered a coder for better than 30 years now.

[PrincessTrouble]

This deck is €20 plus €20 shipping to the States, which is roughly $44.  I have a reservation for one, but am debating if I still want it despite the high price.

[Don Boyer]

This deck is €20 plus €20 shipping to the States, which is roughly $44.  I have a reservation for one, but am debating if I still want it despite the high price.

Twenty euros for shipping??  That's nuts.  It's a freakin' deck of cards!

How did you order?  The shop page lists them at €20 a piece but when I click through to even see the order page, I'm asked for a password.

[PrincessTrouble]

How did you order?  The shop page lists them at €20 a piece but when I click through to even see the order page, I'm asked for a password.

I have the password since I reserved one a while back. 

[Justin O.]

$40+ for a single deck with an unknown printer? That's a bit of a tall order...

[jsantafe]

The printer is MPC, it is now mentioned in the description of the deck. Then the cards are repackaged by hand, wrapped in paper, knotted and sealed and stamped with red wax.

It's expensive, for sure, and shipping specially, but then it's pretty unique, nice topic and story behind it and hand work. At least it's not artifially ultra limited just for the sake of it.

What we did is to get a four deck order and share expenses, as frequently Don recommends, from our spanish card collectors frak club

[Don Boyer]

The printer is MPC, it is now mentioned in the description of the deck. Then the cards are repackaged by hand, wrapped in paper, knotted and sealed and stamped with red wax.

It's expensive, for sure, and shipping specially, but then it's pretty unique, nice topic and story behind it and hand work. At least it's not artifially ultra limited just for the sake of it.

What we did is to get a four deck order and share expenses, as frequently Don recommends, from our spanish card collectors frak club

There's no MPC deck that's worth that much.  None.  The quality's just not high enough.  It's not the worst, it's not even bad, but it's not high enough to be worth €20.

[jsantafe]

Well, I have to disagree.
Quality of stock and finish is just one of many variables that make a deck valuable. In my case, even if obviously I prefer UPSCC, LPCC or EPCC (and I have opted out of some decks because of being MPC), artwork is critical, as is handwork, originality and limitedness (does this word exist?).
I am not going to thoroughly use my cards, but display and look at them. I can't imagine stock and finish quality being part of the experience, maybe just marginally in touch...
I have to agree that registration and printing is another thing, but then again the artworkand its story, originality, custom wrapping, sealing and tuck and short run (stupid, but human to value things others can't have) overcome this issue.
At the end, that's way I paid the money, of course.

[Don Boyer]

Well, I have to disagree.
Quality of stock and finish is just one of many variables that make a deck valuable. In my case, even if obviously I prefer UPSCC, LPCC or EPCC (and I have opted out of some decks because of being MPC), artwork is critical, as is handwork, originality and limitedness (does this word exist?).
I am not going to thoroughly use my cards, but display and look at them. I can't imagine stock and finish quality being part of the experience, maybe just marginally in touch...
I have to agree that registration and printing is another thing, but then again the artworkand its story, originality, custom wrapping, sealing and tuck and short run (stupid, but human to value things others can't have) overcome this issue.
At the end, that's way I paid the money, of course.

You said it yourself, "Artwork is critical."  MPC uses a digital press that has a tendency to render colors darker than the designer (and the customer) sees them on the screen.  Hence the reason I don't think any MPC deck is worth €20.  The quality of the stock and finish also play a part, and there they've started to close the gap, but they're not there yet.  If I paint an accurate replica of the "Mona Lisa" but I paint it on unbleached newsprint paper and use darker shades of paint, it's not really the "Mona Lisa" anymore, is it?  Doesn't matter how gorgeous the artwork is if the press making the copies can't do it justice.

"Limitedness" doesn't exist.  "Rarity" is the word you're looking for.  "Scarcity" would be another.  They're similar but not identical terms.  A rare deck could be so readily available that it's not scarce, and a common deck could be distributed in a way that, at least in some places, it's considered rare - like a Bicycle Rider Back deck (nearly as common as dirt in the US) in Europe, Australia or any continent outside of North America is relatively rare, and an Aladdin deck in the US found outside of USPC's factory is practically unheard of outside a magic shop or a playing card store while in Singapore they're as common there as Bicycle Rider Backs are in the US.  Tally Ho is a relatively rare deck outside of New York City - meanwhile, there's a 24-hour vegetable store near my apartment building that sell them for $3 a pack - cheaper than what most stores sell Bikes for.

[jsantafe]

Hello again,

I thought it would be nice to round up this thread by adding some pictures of the final product. I have yet to open the deck to check the cards (and its dubious quality  ), but to be fair, so far everything justifies the price I paid





A bit dark, straight out of camera picture. Suits the theme!



Detail of the painted icon:



An extra, you are given the chance to draw a card and be featured in a future KS project:



(Again, sorry for linking images, I already uploaded them to another forum, seemed absurd to redo here).

[PrincessTrouble]

It's a neat deck.  I wish it came with a tuck box, though.

[Don Boyer]

Hello again,

I thought it would be nice to round up this thread by adding some pictures of the final product. I have yet to open the deck to check the cards (and its dubious quality  ), but to be fair, so far everything justifies the price I paid

So, everyone paid their €20 for a pretty, pretty box?

I personally buy a deck for the cards inside.  Otherwise, that's all it is - a box.  It's a nice box, to be sure, but tells me nothing at all about the cards inside.  To buy the deck for the box alone would be like buying a Picasso or a Da Vinci for the shipping crate.

[jsantafe]

Okay... maybe my comment is a bit simplified. 

I care fot the art and originality. I won't play with these cards but I open all my decks. What I value here, and paid 20€ for is:

• excellent artwork in cards
• pretty pretty wrapping
• appealing topic (Divina Comedia)
• pretty box with hand painted logo
• story behind the artwork: it's supposed to be the sketches Dante makes during his travel through hell and brings back at the end
• rarity
• manual work (wrapping, seal)

I need some quiet time to open the deck carefuly to check all the cards, I will post pictures of those then.

I don't want to be too irritating with this, a specially look like I have to convince everyone (and myself) that my expense is justified, but still feel it's adding to the conversation. If it gets too tiring, tell me and I'll cut it off.

Thanks!

[PrincessTrouble]

But we paid an additional 20€ for the cards to be shipped in an oversized box.  It's a nice, artsy box.  But in my opinion, not worth the extra shipping it cost.  I'm more interested in the cards than their box.  If I had the choice, I would have taken just the deck for 20€ plus a smaller shipping charge rather than the deck in a box for 40€ (20€ plus 20€ shipping).

[Don Boyer]

But we paid an additional 20€ for the cards to be shipped in an oversized box.  It's a nice, artsy box.  But in my opinion, not worth the extra shipping it cost.  I'm more interested in the cards than their box.  If I had the choice, I would have taken just the deck for 20€ plus a smaller shipping charge rather than the deck in a box for 40€ (20€ plus 20€ shipping).

Twenty euros is a LOT for shipping a 94g pack of cards, size B8, especially when the deck itself is already the same price.

[NineLives]

Twenty euros is a LOT for shipping a 94g pack of cards, size B8, especially when the deck itself is already the same price.

I'd be curious to know what US postage rates are like (i.e. shipping from the US to anywhere in the world). From experience, I know it's expensive from Australia - and I'm guessing it probably is from the EU as well... though reading on forums I get the idea that it's A LOT more to ship from our big island in the south (and probably Europe) compared to the US...?

From here (oz), I can send a single deck of playing cards (less than 20mm total thickness) in a flat-box cardboard mailer for ~$8 AUD to pretty much anywhere in the world. Anything thicker (bubble-wrap or extra packaging, tarot cards, 2 decks...) jumps straight up the shipping ladder: $15 AUD (to the US) or $18-25 (elsewhere in the world). I agree it's insane when postage equals or even passes the cost of what you are sending, which is why I'm secretly working on my magic carpet skills - not much luck as yet, but I live in hope

Wax seal and personal message is a nice touch - I'm interested to see the real cards

[aldazar]

I must admit that I often do find myself buying/pledging for decks based more on their tuck than the cards themselves... I think there's a bit more that can be done with the tuck (like embossing, foiling, etc.) that makes it interesting to me... Plus even if you don't crack em open, you can still appreciate the tuck! =)

So, everyone paid their €20 for a pretty, pretty box?

I personally buy a deck for the cards inside.  Otherwise, that's all it is - a box.  It's a nice box, to be sure, but tells me nothing at all about the cards inside.  To buy the deck for the box alone would be like buying a Picasso or a Da Vinci for the shipping crate.

[Don Boyer]

Twenty euros is a LOT for shipping a 94g pack of cards, size B8, especially when the deck itself is already the same price.

I'd be curious to know what US postage rates are like (i.e. shipping from the US to anywhere in the world). From experience, I know it's expensive from Australia - and I'm guessing it probably is from the EU as well... though reading on forums I get the idea that it's A LOT more to ship from our big island in the south (and probably Europe) compared to the US...?

From here (oz), I can send a single deck of playing cards (less than 20mm total thickness) in a flat-box cardboard mailer for ~$8 AUD to pretty much anywhere in the world. Anything thicker (bubble-wrap or extra packaging, tarot cards, 2 decks...) jumps straight up the shipping ladder: $15 AUD (to the US) or $18-25 (elsewhere in the world). I agree it's insane when postage equals or even passes the cost of what you are sending, which is why I'm secretly working on my magic carpet skills - not much luck as yet, but I live in hope

Wax seal and personal message is a nice touch - I'm interested to see the real cards

From US to anywhere is hard to calculate because it depends on the destination.  Part of the cost is determined by the destination country, not the sending country.

I can send an envelope of one pound (454g) to Australia by First Class Mail (ironically, the slowest and least expensive despite the high-sounding name) for US$13.10 (A$18.33, though it used to be closer to a 1:1 USD/AUD exchange rate until recently).  That would cover at least two or three decks plus packaging/padding.  It would take perhaps a month to arrive, maybe less.

I must admit that I often do find myself buying/pledging for decks based more on their tuck than the cards themselves... I think there's a bit more that can be done with the tuck (like embossing, foiling, etc.) that makes it interesting to me... Plus even if you don't crack em open, you can still appreciate the tuck! =)

In which case, it sounds to me more like you're not collecting cards.  You're collecting tuck boxes.  For you, the cards are just "tuck box weights" to keep them from blowing away when you have the ceiling fan on high...

[sprouts1115]

I liked the originals.  I even saved a few pics for reference.  It's a good deck. I like ppl who break the rules...

[NineLives]

From US to anywhere is hard to calculate because it depends on the destination.  Part of the cost is determined by the destination country, not the sending country.

I can send an envelope of one pound (454g) to Australia by First Class Mail (ironically, the slowest and least expensive despite the high-sounding name) for US$13.10 (A$18.33, though it used to be closer to a 1:1 USD/AUD exchange rate until recently).  That would cover at least two or three decks plus packaging/padding.  It would take perhaps a month to arrive, maybe less.

Thank you
The difference isn't as big as I thought it might be - (roller-coasting exchange rates aside...)