Bicycle 808 #9 Deck.

[chas0039]

I have seen a passing reference to a USPCC  deck that was introduced in 1906 and discontinued in 1913 labeled #9.  Apparently, no one has ever seen any of these decks.  Can anyone point me to a source for more information on this deck?

I have searched the web and my copy of Hochman and I find nothing.

Thanks.  Thanks for moving.

[Don Boyer]

Well, if it's the deck's stock number, #9 would be Tally Ho.  I have a list that I posted which shows all the stock numbers currently in use at USPC.

If it's a back number, like the #9 back of the Bicycle brand, that would be "Autobike #2" as pictured here at Jim Knapp's site - that back is believed to have been made in 1906 in red and blue, but there's a bit of controversy over it as some also apparently believe that it never was printed at all.   That's probably the #9 you're thinking of.  It's numbered 9 because that's where it appeared in alphabetical order when listed in "Mrs. Robinson's" - the classic booklet of vintage Bicycle backs from the brand's origin through the first half of the 20th century, so it's not an official back number or stock number used by USPC, but it's the number by which many vintage deck collectors know it.

[52plusjoker]

Wouldn't be a brand number. Likely as Don says a 'label' someone gave it and his deduction makes sense.

[chas0039]

I can't find any links to Autobike 2 or Jim Knapp.  Can you provide his link?

Thanks, that sounds like what I am after as it is Bicycle not Tally Ho.

[Don Boyer]

I can't find any links to Autobike 2 or Jim Knapp.  Can you provide his link?

Thanks, that sounds like what I am after as it is Bicycle not Tally Ho.

Look more closely at my post - there's a link in there to the Autobike #2 entry on Jim Knapp's Bicycle page.  I'll make it bold and in red below...

Well, if it's the deck's stock number, #9 would be Tally Ho.  I have a list that I posted which shows all the stock numbers currently in use at USPC.

If it's a back number, like the #9 back of the Bicycle brand, that would be "Autobike #2" as pictured here at Jim Knapp's site - that back is believed to have been made in 1906 in red and blue, but there's a bit of controversy over it as some also apparently believe that it never was printed at all.   That's probably the #9 you're thinking of.  It's numbered 9 because that's where it appeared in alphabetical order when listed in "Mrs. Robinson's" - the classic booklet of vintage Bicycle backs from the brand's origin through the first half of the 20th century, so it's not an official back number or stock number used by USPC, but it's the number by which many vintage deck collectors know it.

[chas0039]

Thanks, missed the link on my tablet.  The replica deck actually has the Autobike #3 back and is done in brown.

This helps a lot.

[chas0039]

For anyone interested, the deck is available exclusively at Target.  It is in brown or green even though the deck it is to commemorate was red and blue.  Adding to the fun, I have the deck and while a card inside refers to the #9 deck which was never printed, they have chosen to use as the back, Autobike #3 which was printed from 1907-1917, again in red and blue, rather than the correct Autobike #2.

It is an interesting deck, Target calls it the Bicycle Retro Playing Cards Brown Deck and according to Bicycle, they are shipped both green and brown even though their system only shows brown.   The box is embossed and not glossy at all with more of an old fashioned matte finish.  Also, the seal is a retro style 5 cent tax stamp.  The cards are white not buff colored.

[Don Boyer]

For anyone interested, the deck is available exclusively at Target.  It is in brown or green even though the deck it is to commemorate was red and blue.  Adding to the fun, I have the deck and while a card inside refers to the #9 deck which was never printed, they have chosen to use as the back, Autobike #3 which was printed from 1907-1917, again in red and blue, rather than the correct Autobike #2.

It is an interesting deck, Target calls it the Bicycle Retro Playing Cards Brown Deck and according to Bicycle, they are shipped both green and brown even though their system only shows brown.   The box is embossed and not glossy at all with more of an old fashioned matte finish.  Also, the seal is a retro style 5 cent tax stamp.  The cards are white not buff colored.

Now this makes a lot more sense...  In the next issue of CARD CULTURE, coming out Saturday, there's an ad for this and another vintage reprint deck from USPC being sold exclusively at Target.  This one, as you stated, comes in green and brown, while the other one, the Chainless back, comes in red and blue with a different, older box style (it reads Russell & Morgan Co. as the manufacturer instead of USPC, much like how Tally Ho decks today still list A. Dougherty on the box face).

It looks like they may be trying to create some new line of vintage reprints, though how big of a line it will be is up in the air - they're not very good at follow-through when it comes to these kinds of deck series, having canceled more than one before completion in the past.  Either that, or it's a one-off deal they arranged with Target, much like the ones they did with BJ's Wholesale Club a few years ago for the holidays.

[Pip Nosher]

I made a presentation at last year's 52 Plus Joker convention about Bicycle Playing Card rarities and oddities. My presentation ended with a description of the Autobike #2 back. It is known as Back #9 because Mrs. Ruth Robinson numbered it as such in her guide to Bicycle Playing Cards published in 1955. In more than 20 years of collecting Bicycle playing cards I have never seen a deck, single, or even an image of this card design other than the poor quality one in Mrs. Robinson's book. It doesn't show up in advertising materials, salesman's sample books, and no other serious Bicycle card collector I know has ever seen it.

Chas0039 is right: Target is selling a deck that is actually a reprint of Autobike #3 (back #10 in Mrs. Robinson's book).  While unquestionably rare, Autobike #3 definitely existed prior to the Target release as I have one full red deck and several singles in red and blue. Interestingly, my deck is a UK issue in a cardboard sleeve box.

Arguably, Autobike #3 is a more attractive back anyway as it has the winged wheel in the center, but I think it's funny that even after finally attempting to release the elusive Autobike #2, it still doesn't exist!

P.S. The images of Bicycle cards on Jim Knapp's site are almost entirely from my website: www.bicyclecards.org
While I certainly don't mind images I created being used elsewhere, I would appreciate attribution.

[Don Boyer]

P.S. The images of Bicycle cards on Jim Knapp's site are almost entirely from my website: www.bicyclecards.org
While I certainly don't mind images I created being used elsewhere, I would appreciate attribution.

Joseph Pierson, I presume? 

I've seen your page more than once - a valued resource.

[Cryptocard27]

There is also an other interesting back, known as "Bicycle" but made by the National Card Company in 1890 for the deck Apollo #33. Have you already seen this back or have you this deck in your collection? I think that it would be wonderful to see it in its color version. Attached below is the article with illustrations of the back in question.

[52plusjoker]

Wow! Nice back Cryptocard - Have seen the scroll but never the Bicycle. I want one!

[Cryptocard27]

Wow! Nice back Cryptocard - Have seen the scroll but never the Bicycle. I want one!

Thank you Tom - I would really like to have one too! If you've also never seen this back in a Sample Book of the National Card Company like the one pictured below, this might mean that the back was published during a very short period. What do you think of that please?

[Pip Nosher]

That's a very cool National Bicycle back, Max. I have never seen it, and I do also collect non-USPC bicycle card back designs (of course). That one must be very rare, indeed.

(Yes, Don, it is me, Joseph.)

[52plusjoker]

That's a very cool National Bicycle back, Max. I have never seen it, and I do also collect non-USPC bicycle card back designs (of course). That one must be very rare, indeed.

(Yes, Don, it is me, Joseph.)

As the description with that back is from an English advertisement, I think that back was likely only used for export thereto - which would explain why it is so uncommon or non-existent in the USA. It would also explain why we have never seen it in the many sample books we have seen over the years.

[Cryptocard27]

That's a very cool National Bicycle back, Max. I have never seen it, and I do also collect non-USPC bicycle card back designs (of course). That one must be very rare, indeed.

(Yes, Don, it is me, Joseph.)

Thank you Joseph! We will see it maybe one day in its colors on your website

[Cryptocard27]

The theory of the export is interesting but however, the article (from my researches) doesn't come from an English advertisement, but from an American newspaper. This back was introduced in 1890 probably for the Apollo deck with the "fishbowl" joker but for a very short period, in my opinion. What is certain is that this back was no longer comprised in the standard backs used for the Apollo decks in 1895 with the new joker.

Another element is that the National Card Company was a serious menace for the Russell & Morgan factory at those days. And as the Bicycle decks were already popular, this very nice and unexpected back was maybe a little bit of revenge from Samuel John Murray in relation to his previous associates with whom he had a disagreement. As he participated in the success of the United States Playing Card Company, he maybe wanted to show that he was able to seriously compete with his adversaries by creating a back with a similar design but nevertheless unique and sophisticated. An ingenious model specially created by his own fast growing National Company, before the USPCC buy it out and controlles the production, perhaps deciding to abandon and remove permanently this back from the market, as a part of the arrangement with Mr. Murray in 1893.

Attached below is the first article published also in 1890 in the same newspaper, just before the one which presents the National Bicycle back.

[52plusjoker]

Can you say which American magazine? - The Stationer was a publication, I thought, of the Stationers Company in London.

[Cryptocard27]

Sure. It is The American Stationer, a journal published in New York from 1873 to 1928 by Howard Lockwood which—according to its own description—was "devoted to the interests of the stationery & fancy goods trades." The newspaper article with the "Bicycle" back was found in Volume XXVII.