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White Smokes by Dan & Dave

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White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« on: August 30, 2015, 10:01:27 PM »
 

Jay Losa

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Are these real ? Found them at a magic store in Arkansas a few days ago, it was their last deck. It was open and they didn't have a seal, so that worried me.

Paid $10

I've heard some are worth a lot, also the bottom says special edition. I know there's several versions. Can someone help ?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 10:03:30 PM by Jay Losa »
 

Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2015, 12:16:04 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Are these real ? Found them at a magic store in Arkansas a few days ago, it was their last deck. It was open and they didn't have a seal, so that worried me.

Paid $10

I've heard some are worth a lot, also the bottom says special edition. I know there's several versions. Can someone help ?

There's been some forgeries making the rounds.  It's probably a counterfeit.
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Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2015, 06:03:12 AM »
 

Mr.parangot

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The special edition was the v2 version. how do they handle? I mean if they are open you could easily verify if they are real or not
 

Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2015, 04:52:08 PM »
 

Jay Losa

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The special edition was the v2 version. how do they handle? I mean if they are open you could easily verify if they are real or not

They are authentic. They handle great. Typical USPC stock.
 

Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2015, 06:29:21 PM »
 

hecrob

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How do you guys know if its a V1 or V2?
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Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2015, 06:41:03 PM »
 

Fess

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$10.... Does not make any sense for these to be legit. I mean, no sense at all.
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Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2015, 06:43:58 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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How do you guys know if its a V1 or V2?

http://playingcards.wikidot.com/smoke-mirror:v1-v2-v3

That's how!  The designs are different for all the versions, with the exception of the v4s that came with or without a deck seal - I'm told the sealed ones were from a convention prior to release, while without were the ones they were selling on the website.

$10.... Does not make any sense for these to be legit. I mean, no sense at all.

No sense at all.  Unless the seller has no clue what the hell he's selling, but that seems unlikely.
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Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2015, 04:42:43 AM »
 

Mr.parangot

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How much are they worth then, if they are opened? I'm selling a V2 and a V3 ;)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 04:42:57 AM by Mr.parangot »
 

Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2015, 12:03:09 PM »
 

Justin O.

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Are these real ? Found them at a magic store in Arkansas a few days ago, it was their last deck. It was open and they didn't have a seal, so that worried me.

Paid $10

I've heard some are worth a lot, also the bottom says special edition. I know there's several versions. Can someone help ?

Just based on the image I am inclined to say these are not genuine, the image it a little small to say for sure but the print on the tuck looks pixelated indendant of the pixelation on the image, could you post a macro picture of the front or back, or just a much more zoomed in image? The genuine tuck wasn't printed on a digital printer as far as I know, the lines should all be clean and smooth edged, I believe the gradient of the shadow or smoke effect shouldn't look pixelated either. I had the same issue with a deck I bought cheap from an online retailer, too cheap to be true, and it wasn't.
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Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2015, 07:05:43 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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How much are they worth then, if they are opened? I'm selling a V2 and a V3 ;)

They're not cheap - low three figures.  But it sounds like your using this topic to promote your sale.  Hijacking someone else's thread is considered a little rude.

For future reference, try the method I use to determine the value of a modern deck.  Look at recent eBay sales (and insure the items are legit, not forgeries).  Use completed sales where the sale was successful to eliminate those who were asking too much and never sold their decks.  Take an average from there.  If the deck is rare enough or exists in small enough quantities to not appear on eBay, you have to wing it to some degree - negotiate with your buyer or seller, but bear in mind that lack of supply will give the seller more leverage on price.  Retailers will charge a premium over what individual traders charge in the aftermarket, but sometimes, when a deck just doesn't appear anywhere else, you have to go with the retailer's price for your rule of thumb.  I've had situations with retailers where I successfully traded for rare decks I wanted, giving them stock they were low on in exchange for the decks I wanted.


Just based on the image I am inclined to say these are not genuine, the image it a little small to say for sure but the print on the tuck looks pixelated indendant of the pixelation on the image, could you post a macro picture of the front or back, or just a much more zoomed in image? The genuine tuck wasn't printed on a digital printer as far as I know, the lines should all be clean and smooth edged, I believe the gradient of the shadow or smoke effect shouldn't look pixelated either. I had the same issue with a deck I bought cheap from an online retailer, too cheap to be true, and it wasn't.

They were without a doubt not made on a digital printer.  The deck, like all of the older D&D decks and most if not all of the new ones, were made by USPC.  USPC only uses digital printers for proof sheets - all their decks are made on offset presses.  Large-volume runs for decks like the Bicycle Rider Back or the Bee Diamond Back are made on the web press, while the sheet-fed press is used for most custom work, especially anything in small quantities (10,000 or less would be small here, though they have done many larger jobs on the sheet-fed machine).
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Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2015, 09:17:36 AM »
 

Mr.parangot

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Thank you Don for your tips. And sorry it was never my intention to highjack a thread. I just wanted to mention it since this is not a sales thread.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:24:28 AM by Mr.parangot »
 

Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2015, 09:41:16 PM »
 

Jay Losa

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I don't want to start a war but.. If these are fake, I want to know who made them. The stock literally looks, feels and handles like air cushion from USPC. If they're cheap I might use them for my personal decks (I'm kidding, Legends classic stock is the best in my opinion)

If they are real, the owner of the magic shop didn't know their worth. He did say it was the only one of these he had.

This forum is not allowing me to upload photos. Too large apparently even tho I took them with my phone.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:51:44 PM by Jay Losa »
 

Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2015, 11:52:53 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I don't want to start a war but.. If these are fake, I want to know who made them. The stock literally looks, feels and handles like air cushion from USPC. If they're cheap I might use them for my personal decks (I'm kidding, Legends classic stock is the best in my opinion)

If they are real, the owner of the magic shop didn't know their worth. He did say it was the only one of these he had.

This forum is not allowing me to upload photos. Too large apparently even tho I took them with my phone.

Despite the posted limits, the actual limit is more like about a megabyte per image, up to five images.  Step down the image quality when sending it and that should help.

If they're fake, they were probably made in a factory buried somewhere in Shenzhen - I hear a lot of IP forgery takes place there.  Regardless, it's not like they're waving their hands in the air, trying to catch your attention.  They just want your money!  I've heard that the Jerry's Nugget forgeries made more recently are of better quality - nothing like a real JN deck, but on par with a pack of standard Bikes at the least.  They used to be far, far worse, more on par with Mavericks and other "dollar-store specials."
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Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2015, 12:43:51 AM »
 

Jay Losa

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Interesting.

I will say this the box or deck doesn't say printed by uspcc at all, I ignored it at first but now it's got me thinking.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 12:44:28 AM by Jay Losa »
 

Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2015, 06:21:43 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Interesting.

I will say this the box or deck doesn't say printed by uspcc at all, I ignored it at first but now it's got me thinking.

Many private-issue USPC-made decks done for third parties don't list USPC as the manufacturer.  In fact, at one point they started insisting that private companies list their name as the producers of the decks on the tucks instead of listing USPC - an example of this would be the Bicycle Masters series decks from Ellusionist.  They used to say, like all "classic" style Bicycle decks, THE U.S. PLAYING CARD CO. with the Cincinnati address on the side of the box, whereas now they say THE ELLUSIONIST PLAYING CARD CO., sans address.  On the bottom of the new box, USPC is listed as the manufacturer in small print next to the "firebird" logo the company uses for their playing cards (they seem to continue to use the old "E" logo, but only for magic instructional items and gimmicks).

I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I don't think any of the Smoke and Mirrors decks, at least the earlier ones, listed USPC anywhere.  The ones made since the move to Erlanger will typically have all the small print on the box bottom listing USPC as the maker, though not necessarily the copyright holder.
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Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2015, 10:15:57 AM »
 

Gareth

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Exactly as Don said, genuine Smoke v2s don't have USPCC listed anywhere (There is "D&D Playing Card Co" along one of the sides).

I've just pulled out a couple of v2 Smokes and can confirm they look exactly like your pictures. (The only slight difference was the cello was folded the other way at the bottom - ie, the vee part of the folding at the bottom was at the "SMOKE" end, not the textual end - but I guess it's likely they went into USPCCs cello machine in whichever way around they got there).

As far as one can tell, you may just have a genuine Smoke v2 deck at a relative bargain.  8)
 

Re: White Smokes by Dan & Dave
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2015, 11:47:43 AM »
 

Justin O.

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I've just pulled out a couple of v2 Smokes and can confirm they look exactly like your pictures.


Hey Gareth,
Would you be willing to post a good close up picture of yours we can compare with on here?
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

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