Red Saturns - KS Live

[Jay Losa]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/174170784/red-saturn-playing-cards

[Don Boyer]

These are nice, but I think I preferred the blues.  That shade of blue, called "Dunes Blue" by the creator, was specifically chosen to evoke the old Dunes Casino decks of the same shade.  The red doesn't have that significance.  It doesn't help matters that they switched from Expert PCC to USPC - the stock won't be the same and won't have the same durability.

[Jay Losa]

I prefer the blues too. Can't get any now that they're $35-$40 a deck 

A lot of Cardists prefect USPC. I will never understand why. I can't judge them tho, my favorite cards are the blue monarchs, not so much for the stock but for the design, color of red suits and court cards, and obviously the box. I use them every day and every show. All the other cards I just collect 

[Don Boyer]

I prefer the blues too. Can't get any now that they're $35-$40 a deck 

A lot of Cardists prefect USPC. I will never understand why. I can't judge them tho, my favorite cards are the blue monarchs, not so much for the stock but for the design, color of red suits and court cards, and obviously the box. I use them every day and every show. All the other cards I just collect 

USPC cards coated with Magic Finish/Performance Coating do have a good feel right out of the box.  Cards from EPCC or LPCC have a much-different feel, and function better with a little breaking in, depending on the particular stock.

The big difference comes with longevity - a cardist can break down a USPC deck in as little as a week, while all of EPCC's current offerings and most of LPCC's will last for month after month.

You use Monarchs a lot for performance - how many decks do you go through in a month?  Try switching to something like the NOC V3s from the Blue Crown, made by EPCC, or the Classic Twins from EPCC, or most of the Legends series decks from LPCC, then see how many decks you use in a month - you'll see a huge difference.

[Jay Losa]

They honestly last me a long time. I just opened a new deck yesterday. I don't do a lot of card magic. I do mentalism (mnemonica and invisible deck to be more precise). So the cards don't go trough a lot of stress. I've had the same invisible monarch for over a year now, and the last Mnemonica monarch deck lasted me 4-5 months :)

[Joker and the Thief]

A lot of Cardists prefect USPC. I will never understand why.

Hi Jay,

Just thought I'd pitch in. As a cardist myself I thought I'd explain.

Here's why cardists prefer American made cards. They feel far more papery. In general, they feel nicer to use. They break in easily, and hold up nicely depending on the deck. Although they're not as durable as an EPCC product, they are far easier to break in and handle. I will defend that every deck has its own unique handling, and that yes, a lot will feel similar. This comes down to humidity in the factory, compression of the stock, the type of paper used, the finish remains the same, but the saturation of ink in a card can make or break the feel. The presence of metallic inks and the amount of ink coverage on a deck does effect the feel. For example, Ellusionist's Absinthe in comparison to Dan and Dave's Antlers. The latter handles FAR better. It is complete ink coverage vs sparser ink coverage. How the edges are cut can change the feel also. It may seem subtle, but it is there and we can feel it. EPCC decks are different, especially decks with master finish. They tend to feel slightly plastic. But the new classic finish holds its own. While USPCC can be inconsistent, when it produces a fantastic deck like the Vintage Paid (which is perhaps one of the best handling decks ever) it is the feel that cardists always prefer.

Not to say that other manufacturers produce poor quality products, Expert and Legends produce fantastic products, but the USPCC is just preferred because of how they feel.

Cheers,
James

[PrincessTrouble]

That shade of blue, called "Dunes Blue" by the creator, was specifically chosen to evoke the old Dunes Casino decks of the same shade.

The red is "Starbucks Red"



I have the blues and really like that color.  I'm going to pass on the reds because 1) red; 2) USPCC; 3) no improvement in tuck case.

[Cardfool]

A lot of Cardists prefect USPC. I will never understand why.

Hi Jay,

Just thought I'd pitch in. As a cardist myself I thought I'd explain.

Here's why cardists prefer American made cards. They feel far more papery. In general, they feel nicer to use. They break in easily, and hold up nicely depending on the deck. Although they're not as durable as an EPCC product, they are far easier to break in and handle. I will defend that every deck has its own unique handling, and that yes, a lot will feel similar. This comes down to humidity in the factory, compression of the stock, the type of paper used, the finish remains the same, but the saturation of ink in a card can make or break the feel. The presence of metallic inks and the amount of ink coverage on a deck does effect the feel. For example, Ellusionist's Absinthe in comparison to Dan and Dave's Antlers. The latter handles FAR better. It is complete ink coverage vs sparser ink coverage. How the edges are cut can change the feel also. It may seem subtle, but it is there and we can feel it. EPCC decks are different, especially decks with master finish. They tend to feel slightly plastic. But the new classic finish holds its own. While USPCC can be inconsistent, when it produces a fantastic deck like the Vintage Paid (which is perhaps one of the best handling decks ever) it is the feel that cardists always prefer.

Not to say that other manufacturers produce poor quality products, Expert and Legends produce fantastic products, but the USPCC is just preferred because of how they feel.

Cheers,
James

James, thanks for your insight.  It is interesting that you say that cardists prefer USPC, especially with you being a cardist, yet with your own deck of cards, you went with EPCC as the printer.  Don't get me wrong as I absolutely love your cards and actually am glad that you went with EPCC over USPC, it is just an interesting comment.

As for the Red Saturns, I am in for a pair (one for me and one for a friend), as I am curious to see the differences between the two Saturn decks.  Overall though, there is definitely nothing exciting about this deck and I am surprised that it was so quickly funded compared to some of the other decks out their (i.e. Contours)...I think part of it is from the hype of the currently high price of the original Saturns online and people are buying in bulk in hopes of cashing in later...hope that is not the case, but it certainly seems so

[Joker and the Thief]

A lot of Cardists prefect USPC. I will never understand why.

Hi Jay,

Just thought I'd pitch in. As a cardist myself I thought I'd explain.

Here's why cardists prefer American made cards. They feel far more papery. In general, they feel nicer to use. They break in easily, and hold up nicely depending on the deck. Although they're not as durable as an EPCC product, they are far easier to break in and handle. I will defend that every deck has its own unique handling, and that yes, a lot will feel similar. This comes down to humidity in the factory, compression of the stock, the type of paper used, the finish remains the same, but the saturation of ink in a card can make or break the feel. The presence of metallic inks and the amount of ink coverage on a deck does effect the feel. For example, Ellusionist's Absinthe in comparison to Dan and Dave's Antlers. The latter handles FAR better. It is complete ink coverage vs sparser ink coverage. How the edges are cut can change the feel also. It may seem subtle, but it is there and we can feel it. EPCC decks are different, especially decks with master finish. They tend to feel slightly plastic. But the new classic finish holds its own. While USPCC can be inconsistent, when it produces a fantastic deck like the Vintage Paid (which is perhaps one of the best handling decks ever) it is the feel that cardists always prefer.

Not to say that other manufacturers produce poor quality products, Expert and Legends produce fantastic products, but the USPCC is just preferred because of how they feel.

Cheers,
James

James, thanks for your insight.  It is interesting that you say that cardists prefer USPC, especially with you being a cardist, yet with your own deck of cards, you went with EPCC as the printer.  Don't get me wrong as I absolutely love your cards and actually am glad that you went with EPCC over USPC, it is just an interesting comment.

As for the Red Saturns, I am in for a pair (one for me and one for a friend), as I am curious to see the differences between the two Saturn decks.  Overall though, there is definitely nothing exciting about this deck and I am surprised that it was so quickly funded compared to some of the other decks out their (i.e. Contours)...I think part of it is from the hype of the currently high price of the original Saturns online and people are buying in bulk in hopes of cashing in later...hope that is not the case, but it certainly seems so

Thank you! As a first project, the Joker and the Thief Playing Cards had to be a top quality product, which I'm pleased to say that I think that is the case. As a new playing card producer on the scene we didn't want a product that handled poorly. Essentially it came down to uncertainty, and we didn't want a deck that handled like Blue Fontaines or Icons. Fortunately for us, EPCC just happens to produce playing cards that are very consistent in their quality, and handle well. That seemed like the best option at the time - consistency and guaranteed quality. As for the projects currently in the works, where we will manufacture new decks will be announced in time.

In regards to the Saturns, it is a definitively contemporary deck for Cardists and is one of the reasons that Franky went with USPCC. Plus, being close to the factory, he has been allowed to monitor quality. So I am expecting a top notch, well handling product. As his friend too, Franky explained that this colour is a very unique red. It's been thought out and isn't a slap on Fontaine Red. He is very specific and certainly has an eye for colour, being an art student of course. Saturn's are all about interesting colours, and the red should stand next to the blues in an equally impressive fashion.

[Jay Losa]

Thanks for the insight James!