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Faction Playing Cards, a deck design

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Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« on: February 08, 2016, 09:46:13 PM »
 

Gwafio

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Hey everybody, I've been developing a design for a deck of cards and I'm at a the point where I could use some extra eyes on it.

The deck is called Faction and the basic premise is 4 feudal families represented by the four common suits. Each family has a strength: Might, Zeal, Acumen, and Bravery. I've got jacks and queens pretty well developed at this point along with pips and a good mock-up for the back design
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 09:46:52 AM by Gwafio »
 

Re: Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2016, 09:48:13 PM »
 

Gwafio

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I personally love card design, but frankly I'm a casual gamer; just game nights with friends or a game of rummy with my wife -so I'm not coming from a collector or magicians perspective. I'm teetering on the fence between taking this design to kickstarter or something in an attempt to get it produced by one of the bigger companies or just spending a hundred bucks for a few decks just for me from MPC. I love the idea of getting my deck funded and knowing that other people are playing with the deck I designed, but that would mean the design has to be good enough and I need some feedback before I go through the huge effort of running a kickstarter campaign. So please let me know what you think!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 09:47:58 AM by Gwafio »
 

Re: Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2016, 09:48:40 PM »
 

Gwafio

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Lately, I've been exploring this site as well as others getting to know the general demand for playing cards and what kinds of designs really generate alot of interest and support. My general perception is that alot of designers go with pretty strong themes (ie. a "gun deck" or a "zombie stripper deck") and that guides alot of the artwork. I feel that my deck's artwork doesn't necessarily stem directly from the theme and would love to know if that affects demand from collectors or anybody really.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 09:48:17 AM by Gwafio »
 

Re: Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2016, 12:28:35 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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First, thanks for sharing your design ideas.  I would suggest that you use a simpler graphic format for viewing on a web page, like JPEG for example.  Files sizes are limited to about one megabyte each, but that's plenty large enough for a highly-detailed photo or image on a web page - and they'd appear in your posts instead of seeing links to PDF downloads.  Honestly, I didn't even realize we were equipped to take PDFs - it's not on the list of allowed file types!

I think you want to develop your deck's theme some more before bringing it to Kickstarter.  Right now, there's not a lot besides unique pip placement and vaguely Cubist court characters to make this deck look different from any standard deck - and neither of these traits is a positive, I'm afraid, at least not to most players and many collectors.  Players are traditionalists, mostly - they like the standard pip layouts with not too much variation.  The artwork as presented doesn't in the slightest way convey concepts of might, zeal, acumen or bravery beyond the word itself appearing on the Ace of each suit.

Flesh out your "four feudal families" some more.  Give them personality traits that can be conveyed in their appearance.  Then work with an artist to flesh out these concepts.  From there, go to a graphic designer and work on an eye-pleasing layout and design for the deck as well as the tuck box (never underestimate the importance of an attractive tuck box to help sell your deck).

Something I'm frequently saying to new designers - everyone remembers who climbed Mount Everest first, but no one remembers who did it twelfth or 300th or 43,532nd.  Bring something more to the table that makes your deck unique - and not simply unique for the sake of being unique, but unique in an attractive and/or useful way.  "Unique" is not necessarily equal to "good!"  It can be good, but you have to make it good for that to happen.  So this way, if you're the 43,532nd person to the top of Mount Everest, perhaps you'll stand out by being the first person to host a Nepalese version of Burning Man on the peak...
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Re: Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2016, 11:22:42 AM »
 

Gwafio

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Thanks for the quick feedback Don. I've replaced the pdfs with jpeg images so we can all see it now!  ;)

I kinda figured the relocating pips wouldn't be a popular decision. Personally it feels like a great way to give the whole field a little something extra while still keeping these cards relatively quiet compared to the courts, but I can see how that change can throw people. It probably is something that costs more then it gains.

One thing that might begin to enhance the theme is that I've planned for each family to wield weapons or objects that suggest their strength. The "might family" will have pikes and axes, and the queen even holds a blade, while the "zeal family" holds scepters and sticks because their strength is in their belief rather than their physicality. I've also changed the facial expressions for each family to subtly denote temperament. It's possible that this would make itself clearer when viewed as a complete set rather than a small sample, or like you suggest, it just isn't working.

I feel like one of the biggest strengths of the classic courts is that they are not especially differentiated from one another. The jack of hearts isn't much much different from the jack of spades, etc. The idea that the courts should be deeply distinguished by physical features or else what's the point,  I don't really feel the same way about. I thought the moves I've made so far were pretty strong, not terribly dramatic, but strong nonetheless.

Like you said, that probably doesn't convince alot of collectors who have seen countless designs and need something to scream at them to be different, but I really don't want to do a "theme" deck. I wanted the theme to be a provocative idea, something to inspire a little imagination on the part of the user, and not be rigidly defined characters ie. one jack is skinny and decrepid and wears ragged clothes and another is handsome and buttoned-up. I guess that isn't really happening with this deck right now. I feel that the artwork is much more important than theme, but from the sound of it, the artwork isn't doing much for you?

Thank you again for the feedback and please keep it coming!
 

Re: Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2016, 11:52:05 AM »
 

Sarah F

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Nice start to the deck.

I think any good design, no matter the product, is built first on an idea. Some decks have more overt themes, or familiar ideas, others are more subtle. There's no right way! I think you're on an interesting path and as you continue to develop your idea, the deck will become stronger for you.

Good luck!

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Re: Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2016, 06:36:16 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Sarah does make a good point.  Your basic premise is interesting, but your art should reflect it a little more, I think.  It's not a hard theme like "Western" or "holidays" or "zombies" or whatever, but is more general, in the same way that a Staunton chess set evokes the shapes of the figures they represent without being completely literal about it.

I'm not entirely clear on what you're saying about standard courts not being differentiated from each other - they have elements in common, but they have distinctions as well which make them unique to each other, at least in the International Standard design.  Consider carrying over your weapons idea into the clothing of the characters - for example, the "Bravery family" might be less armored and more exposed, as a visible show of their bravery in the face of combat, while the "Zeal family" might have a vaguely religious, common iconography in their garments, to appear as zealots of a religious sect and the "Might family" might all be overly-muscled and heavily-armored.  (Just chucking out some ideas - your mileage may vary.)
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Re: Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2016, 08:28:24 PM »
 

Gwafio

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Sarah,

Thanks alot, that's good to hear.

Don,

Thanks for all the input! I'm going to re-evaluate the lines and shapes that are forming the bodies right now, like you say, they aren't doing a great job of setting the cards apart from one another, I'll keep working with it.
 

Re: Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 07:58:17 PM »
 

Gwafio

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Ok, I've made some changes to the courts. I'm going for a bit more structured look to tie the families together and giving some more features to further distinguish them. Please let me know what you think of the theme and design changes.
 

Re: Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2016, 01:23:57 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Ok, I've made some changes to the courts. I'm going for a bit more structured look to tie the families together and giving some more features to further distinguish them. Please let me know what you think of the theme and design changes.

In terms of color, pattern, etc., the royal suits do at least look like "families," but only in that they dress the same and have the same general appearance.  But there's two problems as I see it - and bear in mind, it's just my opinion, take that for what it's worth.

1) Not enough real differentiation between characters' faces.  The King of Spades and the Jack of Clubs have a nearly identical appearance and they all have a general style to them that's very similar from face to face - like looking at a room full of genetically near-pure Swedes or something.

2) There's still nothing to tie the court appearances to the family names/theme names.  If you can't tie them together, why keep those names at all?  What about those Spades (that's DIFFERENT from the other suits) evokes Might?  And the Diamonds - where is the Zeal?
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Re: Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2016, 07:32:11 PM »
 

Gwafio

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Haha, you called me out on the KS and JC faces. Ya, the jack I just tweeked the Kings face for; it still needs development. The spades are supposed to be frowning and glaring while the zealous diamonds are supposed to be serene/contemplating. I considered closing their eyes like they were praying, but was hoping to keep one-eyed royals and suicide king a part of this deck. I suppose closed eyes still count as long as there are two of them visible.  :)

Each suit uses a single shape that the entire family is built off of. In the diamonds case it is a V shape which is also the icon that each family member holds, (like a religious symbol).
For Spades it is a sort of backwards L shape to make them somewhat boxy, additionally they are the only family with armor, in the form of the solid filled lighter blue panels.
Admittedly, I've found it hard to visually represent Acumen for the Clubs, I've gone with giving them more gilded edges and lighter clothing to represent wealth or affluence.

I'm sort of on the fence about removing the theme names. On one hand I like the subtle differentiation they have right now, but I don't want it too arbitrary.

You think the faction idea can be interesting without giving each family a distinct "strength"? I like that it is more up to the individual user to imagine the four families that way. Or just making the strengths even more abstract, like serenity, devotion, etc...I dunno...
 

Re: Faction Playing Cards, a deck design
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2016, 12:55:53 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Haha, you called me out on the KS and JC faces. Ya, the jack I just tweeked the Kings face for; it still needs development. The spades are supposed to be frowning and glaring while the zealous diamonds are supposed to be serene/contemplating. I considered closing their eyes like they were praying, but was hoping to keep one-eyed royals and suicide king a part of this deck. I suppose closed eyes still count as long as there are two of them visible.  :)

Each suit uses a single shape that the entire family is built off of. In the diamonds case it is a V shape which is also the icon that each family member holds, (like a religious symbol).
For Spades it is a sort of backwards L shape to make them somewhat boxy, additionally they are the only family with armor, in the form of the solid filled lighter blue panels.
Admittedly, I've found it hard to visually represent Acumen for the Clubs, I've gone with giving them more gilded edges and lighter clothing to represent wealth or affluence.

I'm sort of on the fence about removing the theme names. On one hand I like the subtle differentiation they have right now, but I don't want it too arbitrary.

You think the faction idea can be interesting without giving each family a distinct "strength"? I like that it is more up to the individual user to imagine the four families that way. Or just making the strengths even more abstract, like serenity, devotion, etc...I dunno...

Perhaps you could go for simpler concepts.  Zealots aren't known for their peaceful serenity.  Definition of "zealotry" - fanatical and uncompromising pursuit of religious, political, or other ideals; fanaticism.  Nothing serene about that!  But if you swapped it out for "serenity," you'd have something that makes more sense.

Concepts you could consider would be concepts based on the shapes and origins of the suit pips themselves, or perhaps what they evolved into when the tarot deck came into being.  Spades became swords, hearts became cups, clubs became staves or wands, diamonds became coins (or to some, pentacles).  Use that as a starting point and see what your inspiration comes up with.

I could see a few possibilities.  Swords could be warriors/knights.  Hearts could be Buddhist-esque monks/meditators/serenity.  Clubs could be martial artists/fighting monks like the Shaolin, or perhaps even rangers/hikers/protectors of nature (I can see a Queen of Clubs as Mother Nature, easily).  Diamonds could be wealth - merchants, perhaps, as royal ancestry didn't automatically mean wealth.  You could label them specifically - or you could leave the themes unstated, letting your backers have the pleasure of figuring them out when they see them.

To really solidify the theme concepts, use colors - have the Spades dressed in blue or black, the Hearts dressed in red, the Clubs dressed in green and the Diamonds dressed in white, or maybe purple (a color associated with royalty and wealth).  Bit of trivia: purple became associated with royalty because the dyes used to make purple cloth were imported from the Far East and were rather expensive, thus peasants were unlikely to possess purple clothing and royalty were the only ones who could afford them until a strong merchant class developed.  I like the idea of opposed colors for the clothing - black spades and white diamonds, red hearts and green clubs.  But please keep the pips themselves just red and black - four-color decks are a pain to play solitaire with!  In fact, using this color scheme, you could create background art for the spot cards in the chosen colors for the clothes of the courts, in essence making a four-color deck without actually changing the colors of the pips!  Best of both worlds!  Your background designs can even match the themes chosen for the court clothes - bladed weapons for spades, things associated with love (perhaps cups of wine, the sun, etc.) for hearts, trees/shrubs for clubs and things associated with wealth for diamonds, perhaps coins and other gems in shapes OTHER than diamond, like princess cut, square cut, teardrop cut, etc.  If you don't use blue for any of the other suits, when using white for the diamonds you can use a pale blue as a background for white linework.

Lots of possibilities here.  Lots of decisions to make - have fun making them!
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