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Guru Ganjifa -based on Dashavatar Ganjifa with artwork inspired from Madhubani

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leangyan

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Hi All,

I'd like to share with all of you a Ganjifa deck I'd been working for quite a while. The deck has been titled "Guru Ganjifa" with inspiration from Dashavatar Ganjifa and Madhubani art, and has 130 cards per deck (120 game cards + 10 description cards).  I received Prototype decks yesterday (printed in USA) and have started playtesting here in Sydney. It will be launched via Kickstarter.



There are still some talks going on with respect to shipping & fulfillment, and I'm struggling with how to make the shipping costs more pleasing to non-US backers. Also, though the artwork has got me some good reviews but I'm not planning to add any additional items to the deck as I see it makes things a bit complicated wrt. shipping and fulfillment and this being the first campaign, I just want to focus on building community and delighting backers. Still, I would like to know your thoughts on this aspect.

Lastly, the card stock will be 310 gsm black core with linen finish and box will be a two-part and gold foiled. I tried tuck box for prototype but it is not able to withstand the weight of the cards.



Regards,
Sunish Chabba
Guru Playing Card Company
 

 

Don Boyer

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Who is doing the printing for you?  There are companies that you can work with that will give you a better deal on shipping in your part of the world.  For example, Expert PCC is based in New York but their print shop is located in Taipei and they can do order fulfillment from there.  Legends PCC does some of their print work from the same Taipei shop as Expert but handles order fulfillment from their offices in Hong Kong.  Both can also ship to you directly from the factory, if I'm not mistaken.  Expert in particular has a fantastic stock for cards like this, very thick and durable, called Robusto, and they can probably work with you on creating a box design that will be both appealing and well-suited for the card design.

The cards look very nice, but I think you'll have a little harder time getting traction on this forum - most of the collectors here are interested in International Standard decks and those based on that design.  Fortunately for you, we only represent a small though very active corner of the playing card market as a whole!  What might help, perhaps, is a brief explanation of ganjifa and the games that can be played with a ganjifa deck.  I've heard that the designs can vary widely, with some decks having as many as a dozen different suits.  How large are the cards themselves and how does one identify them when holding them in their hands?  (Take away some of the mystery for those not familiar with ganjifa at all and perhaps you'll find a few converts!)

I would also recommend taking your design to websites specializing in custom board and card games in general.  Those are the type of people willing to invest time and effort into learning new games that they aren't familiar with at first.  They tend to be more open-minded about trying things that are different to what most people are accustomed to - and in North America, only a small fraction of the people even know that ganjifa exists.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 03:30:45 AM by Don Boyer »
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leangyan

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Who is doing the printing for you?  There are companies that you can work with that will give you a better deal on shipping in your part of the world.  For example, Expert PCC is based in New York but their print shop is located in Taipei and they can do order fulfillment from there.  Legends PCC does some of their print work from the same Taipei shop as Expert but handles order fulfillment from their offices in Hong Kong.  Both can also ship to you directly from the factory, if I'm not mistaken.  Expert in particular has a fantastic stock for cards like this, very thick and durable, called Robusto, and they can probably work with you on creating a box design that will be both appealing and well-suited for the card design.

The cards look very nice, but I think you'll have a little harder time getting traction on this forum - most of the collectors here are interested in International Standard decks and those based on that design.  Fortunately for you, we only represent a small though very active corner of the playing card market as a whole!  What might help, perhaps, is a brief explanation of ganjifa and the games that can be played with a ganjifa deck.  I've heard that the designs can vary widely, with some decks having as many as a dozen different suits.  How large are the cards themselves and how does one identify them when holding them in their hands?  (Take away some of the mystery for those not familiar with ganjifa at all and perhaps you'll find a few converts!)

I would also recommend taking your design to websites specializing in custom board and card games in general.  Those are the type of people willing to invest time and effort into learning new games that they aren't familiar with at first.  They tend to be more open-minded about trying things that are different to what most people are accustomed to - and in North America, only a small fraction of the people even know that ganjifa exists.

Hi Don,

Thanks for your invaluable comments.

I was in SF Bay Area for last 15 days, and was able to show the prototype deck to a few engineers from Apple & Intel. They liked it and gave pretty good feedback. That said, Admagic/Print & Play Games has done the prototype printing & for the production run, I am talking to both EPCC & MPC. EPCC is the first choice but going through MPC gives a bit of relaxation on shipping & fulfillment end. I've already submitted updated 2-part box design to them and awaiting their response.

Cards are 3.5" x 3.5 " and a 2-pager rules instruction sheet is in progress. Regarding the introduction to Ganjifa, I've already started working on creating promotional graphics that will take care of introduction to the game, its origin etc. The research that I did initially, on this is being very invaluable here as it is allowing me to weave a complete story.

I was just a playing card enthusiast earlier, but taking this plunge has made me realize some of the capabilities that I had but was not aware of, you know. Wish me luck...I'll make sure to get this deck a reality soon.

Regards,
Sunish
 

 

leangyan

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I'm back with a quick update. Last few weeks have been pretty busy but the design artwork is almost complete. The deck will include a booklet of around 18-20 pages describing the history of Ganjifa playing cards and games that can be played using this deck. Most of the printers are yet to give a quote. USPCC said that they will need to outsource the printing to a vendor in China and gave a high MoQ. I've also reached out to few board game publishers that were recommended on Board Game Geek forum. Let's see how it goes.

Attached is a sample mockup.

 

 

leangyan

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Hi All,

I'm pleased to announce that the project went live on Kickstarter a few minutes ago. Please do take a look and support the project.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sunishchabba/guru-ganjifa-playing-cards-from-historyrevisited

Please let me know for any feedback, suggestions and comments.

Regards,
Sunish
 

 

NineLives

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Hello Sunish :)

Thanks for sharing your colourful new deck on here, and congratulations on going live on KS.

I haven't come across Ganjifa cards (or games) before and really enjoyed your video. I would need to know more about the cards and their meanings (and how to play), but at first glance, there appears to be (small) similarities with Tarot (which has a branch on the playing card tree too) ... Either way, your cards are lovely! :)

*wave*
Annette :)

 

 

leangyan

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Hi Annette,

Glad to know that you liked it.

Yes, you're right that it has got similarities with Tarot, and in fact, Ganjifa cards  are said to be used as Tarot in the old days.

Check this video titled "Ganjifa Cards- The Indian Tarot" whenever you've time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFJTdI-xD_I

For the rules, I've shared a google doc on the campaign page, and here you go:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bbvhaWCaE36dr_ynq_2w511Xwr4w_tsJ_kA1PXzw9cU/edit?usp=sharing

The illustrations are inspired from Madhubani or Mithila artform that is now acting as a medium of women empowered in a  certain region of India.

Please share and support the Kickstarter project and do take a look at the recent updates posted there.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sunishchabba/guru-ganjifa-playing-cards-from-historyrevisited/updates

Regards,
Sunish
 

 

NineLives

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Thanks Sunish for sharing the interesting links :)

Having researched tarot over many years I found the video really fascinating. With multiple beliefs on where tarot originated, I guess we'll never know for sure. However, with so many similarities with Ganjifa, the theory that tarot has its roots in India (brought to Europe with the Gypsies) - is the one I like most :) It's funny that I hadn't come across the name Ganjifa before, so I do thank you for this enlightening journey.

I liked seeing how the card bases were made, by hand, and then painted with skills passed down through the family line. Reminds me of pottery studios I visited in Europe where families had been producing beautiful wares for generations.

Annette :)
 

 

Don Boyer

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I liked seeing how the card bases were made, by hand, and then painted with skills passed down through the family line. Reminds me of pottery studios I visited in Europe where families had been producing beautiful wares for generations.

Annette :)

It's very similar to how early European playing cards were made - hand-crafted by artisans, usually on commission of a wealthy patron, like a member of royalty or a merchant.  I've even heard of decks being made out of precious metals like silver and gold instead of paper - they were displayed in the home instead of used for play, placed where visitors could see them as a show of conspicuous consumption to indicate (or inflate) one's perceived wealth, and by extension, their status.  We don't start seeing anything even close to mass production of cards until post-Gutenberg; even then, playing cards were still considered luxury items until the Industrial Age caused an explosion of mass production and an increase in high-quality print work, in roughly the latter two or three decades of the 19th century.
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leangyan

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Thanks Sunish for sharing the interesting links :)

Having researched tarot over many years I found the video really fascinating. With multiple beliefs on where tarot originated, I guess we'll never know for sure. However, with so many similarities with Ganjifa, the theory that tarot has its roots in India (brought to Europe with the Gypsies) - is the one I like most :) It's funny that I hadn't come across the name Ganjifa before, so I do thank you for this enlightening journey.

I liked seeing how the card bases were made, by hand, and then painted with skills passed down through the family line. Reminds me of pottery studios I visited in Europe where families had been producing beautiful wares for generations.

Annette :)

Thanks Annette for the kind words.

I'm still trying to get my hands on one of the old Indian Tarot deck and would like to do something related in a future project. 

Don- Yes, even there are references for Ganjifa being made out of Gold, Ivory, and Pearl etc. , and some of the artifacts are still available in Museums worldwide. This has also been one of the reasons to go with casino grade card stock for Guru Ganjifa to give an ode to the legacy of Ganjifa.
 

 

NineLives

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It's very similar to how early European playing cards were made - hand-crafted by artisans, usually on commission of a wealthy patron, like a member of royalty or a merchant.  I've even heard of decks being made out of precious metals like silver and gold instead of paper - they were displayed in the home instead of used for play, placed where visitors could see them as a show of conspicuous consumption to indicate (or inflate) one's perceived wealth, and by extension, their status.  We don't start seeing anything even close to mass production of cards until post-Gutenberg; even then, playing cards were still considered luxury items until the Industrial Age caused an explosion of mass production and an increase in high-quality print work, in roughly the latter two or three decades of the 19th century.

Fascinating Don ... I knew of old decks being handcrafted on animal hide (or parchment), though I can imagine those made from precious metals would be in a different league all together.

Thanks Annette for the kind words.
I'm still trying to get my hands on one of the old Indian Tarot deck and would like to do something related in a future project. 

That does sound like an exciting venture :) (not to take away anything from your current project, which is lovely)
 

 

shimmering

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Sunish, I wonder whether you have seen such Himalayan Tsakali cards?

https://twitter.com/mjpcuervo/status/740898596489400321

They are new to me. Hope it could be of some interest in the context of tarot for divination usage. (Of course where I have used tarot cards (France) it is just as an extended playing card deck.)
 

 

Worst Bower

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Sunish, I wonder whether you have seen such Himalayan Tsakali cards?

https://twitter.com/mjpcuervo/status/740898596489400321

They are new to me. Hope it could be of some interest in the context of tarot for divination usage. (Of course where I have used tarot cards (France) it is just as an extended playing card deck.)

H.T. Morley wrote about them in "Old and Curious Playing Cards" back in 1931. Technically, they're not playing cards but praying cards as they are used strictly for rituals to establish the presence of divine beings.
 

 

leangyan

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Sunish, I wonder whether you have seen such Himalayan Tsakali cards?

https://twitter.com/mjpcuervo/status/740898596489400321

They are new to me. Hope it could be of some interest in the context of tarot for divination usage. (Of course where I have used tarot cards (France) it is just as an extended playing card deck.)

No, I haven't heard of these till date. I'm a native of Himachal Pradesh, a northern Indian state in the Himalayas, but these never caught my eyes.

Thanks for sharing.
 

 

variantventures

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I liked seeing how the card bases were made, by hand, and then painted with skills passed down through the family line. Reminds me of pottery studios I visited in Europe where families had been producing beautiful wares for generations.

Annette :)

It's very similar to how early European playing cards were made - hand-crafted by artisans, usually on commission of a wealthy patron, like a member of royalty or a merchant.  I've even heard of decks being made out of precious metals like silver and gold instead of paper - they were displayed in the home instead of used for play, placed where visitors could see them as a show of conspicuous consumption to indicate (or inflate) one's perceived wealth, and by extension, their status.  We don't start seeing anything even close to mass production of cards until post-Gutenberg; even then, playing cards were still considered luxury items until the Industrial Age caused an explosion of mass production and an increase in high-quality print work, in roughly the latter two or three decades of the 19th century.

And yet... in 1377 the city of Paris prohibited playing cards on workdays.  The implication being that playing cards were available to enough of the working class to cause problems at work places.  While Gutenberg invented movable type, wood-block printing had been around Europe for at least one hundred years.  While this technique is laborious when producing reading material, it lends itself readily to playing cards.  Evidence is thin but it appears that playing cards were being mass manufactured by the last quarter of the 14th century, a good fifty to sixty years before Gutenberg introduces movable type printing.  And playing card production was quite sophisticated by the 17th Century.  There's evidence for cards being treated with a protective coating that was also intended to make the cards smoother (soap) and being polished on marble slabs, for instance.

Playing cards were firmly established in the Islamic world by the 15th Century or earlier, if the dating of the De Unger and Madina card fragments are to be believed, but playing cards do not appear to have moved from hand production to mass production despite the fact the Islamic world was using paper and woodblock printing for hundreds of years before most of Europe.  There is a lot of active speculation about the reasons for this and most of them tend to boil down to culture.  As an indication, the Ottomans banned the printing of books in Arabic until the early 18th Century despite the fact that Sephardic Jews from Spain had brought movable type technology at the end of the the 15th century and been actively using it in Istanbul for two hundred years.

 

 

leangyan

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I liked seeing how the card bases were made, by hand, and then painted with skills passed down through the family line. Reminds me of pottery studios I visited in Europe where families had been producing beautiful wares for generations.

Annette :)

It's very similar to how early European playing cards were made - hand-crafted by artisans, usually on commission of a wealthy patron, like a member of royalty or a merchant.  I've even heard of decks being made out of precious metals like silver and gold instead of paper - they were displayed in the home instead of used for play, placed where visitors could see them as a show of conspicuous consumption to indicate (or inflate) one's perceived wealth, and by extension, their status.  We don't start seeing anything even close to mass production of cards until post-Gutenberg; even then, playing cards were still considered luxury items until the Industrial Age caused an explosion of mass production and an increase in high-quality print work, in roughly the latter two or three decades of the 19th century.

And yet... in 1377 the city of Paris prohibited playing cards on workdays.  The implication being that playing cards were available to enough of the working class to cause problems at work places.  While Gutenberg invented movable type, wood-block printing had been around Europe for at least one hundred years.  While this technique is laborious when producing reading material, it lends itself readily to playing cards.  Evidence is thin but it appears that playing cards were being mass manufactured by the last quarter of the 14th century, a good fifty to sixty years before Gutenberg introduces movable type printing.  And playing card production was quite sophisticated by the 17th Century.  There's evidence for cards being treated with a protective coating that was also intended to make the cards smoother (soap) and being polished on marble slabs, for instance.

Playing cards were firmly established in the Islamic world by the 15th Century or earlier, if the dating of the De Unger and Madina card fragments are to be believed, but playing cards do not appear to have moved from hand production to mass production despite the fact the Islamic world was using paper and woodblock printing for hundreds of years before most of Europe.  There is a lot of active speculation about the reasons for this and most of them tend to boil down to culture.  As an indication, the Ottomans banned the printing of books in Arabic until the early 18th Century despite the fact that Sephardic Jews from Spain had brought movable type technology at the end of the the 15th century and been actively using it in Istanbul for two hundred years.

Just adding a bit courtesy Rev. Jeff Hopewell:

Although there are some obvious differences it seems clear that the playing cards that we use in the west and Indian cards share a common origin.  Both packs have court cards and numeral cards from one to ten.  The idea of taking tricks is known in some of the oldest European and Indian games played with the cards and even what seems to us a curious idea, that of ranking ten as the highest numeral and one as the lowest in only half of the suits and reversing the ranking in the other suits, is still the case in some European tarot games.
There will probably never be a definitive answer to when and where playing cards were invented, but the consensus of scholarly opinion is that Chinese playing cards, using money as suit signs, spread westwards during the thirteenth century and were modified en route.  They reached Egypt in the Mamluk era (1260-1517AD) and stabilised into four suits (cups, swords, coins and polo-sticks), acquiring three court cards in each suit - King, Governor, Vice-Governor - and ten numerals.  In this form they came over to Europe in the middle of the fourteenth century and even today cards can be found in general use in Italy and Spain with similar suit signs (the polo-sticks having been changed to clubs or batons) and court cards of King, Knight and Jack.
 

 

Don Boyer

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I liked seeing how the card bases were made, by hand, and then painted with skills passed down through the family line. Reminds me of pottery studios I visited in Europe where families had been producing beautiful wares for generations.

Annette :)

It's very similar to how early European playing cards were made - hand-crafted by artisans, usually on commission of a wealthy patron, like a member of royalty or a merchant.  I've even heard of decks being made out of precious metals like silver and gold instead of paper - they were displayed in the home instead of used for play, placed where visitors could see them as a show of conspicuous consumption to indicate (or inflate) one's perceived wealth, and by extension, their status.  We don't start seeing anything even close to mass production of cards until post-Gutenberg; even then, playing cards were still considered luxury items until the Industrial Age caused an explosion of mass production and an increase in high-quality print work, in roughly the latter two or three decades of the 19th century.

And yet... in 1377 the city of Paris prohibited playing cards on workdays.  The implication being that playing cards were available to enough of the working class to cause problems at work places.  While Gutenberg invented movable type, wood-block printing had been around Europe for at least one hundred years.  While this technique is laborious when producing reading material, it lends itself readily to playing cards.  Evidence is thin but it appears that playing cards were being mass manufactured by the last quarter of the 14th century, a good fifty to sixty years before Gutenberg introduces movable type printing.  And playing card production was quite sophisticated by the 17th Century.  There's evidence for cards being treated with a protective coating that was also intended to make the cards smoother (soap) and being polished on marble slabs, for instance.

Playing cards were firmly established in the Islamic world by the 15th Century or earlier, if the dating of the De Unger and Madina card fragments are to be believed, but playing cards do not appear to have moved from hand production to mass production despite the fact the Islamic world was using paper and woodblock printing for hundreds of years before most of Europe.  There is a lot of active speculation about the reasons for this and most of them tend to boil down to culture.  As an indication, the Ottomans banned the printing of books in Arabic until the early 18th Century despite the fact that Sephardic Jews from Spain had brought movable type technology at the end of the the 15th century and been actively using it in Istanbul for two hundred years.

I'm not saying common folks absolutely couldn't afford playing cards - but I am saying that they were considered a great expense, to the point that most people didn't own their own unless they were considerably well-off.  Even in the 19th century, an era where cards were being printed using a printing press, they didn't come down enough in price to be cheap and easily affordable until nearly the end of the century, largely due to the improved printing technology that came about in the Industrial Age.

Playing cards were and still are a common feature of movies set in the Old West, but most don't realize that in the real Old West, the cards themselves that people played with were often the property of the saloon in which they were playing and not the players themselves.  It was common practice for saloons to keep cards on hand for their patrons to use for playing or gambling, with the cards being stored in a deck press after closing time in order to preserve their condition as long as possible before requiring replacement.  (Also, because of the odds of one owning a marked or otherwise gimmicked deck, people didn't trust a pack some stranger would bring to the table!  In the wrong saloon, even the house cards weren't always completely on the up-and-up, plus tricks like faro shuffling could make an honest deck work in favor of the house to a greater degree than it should have.)

To you or me, the purchase of a cheap pack of cards at the corner store is not a big deal - a little expense, a cheap form of entertainment.  To someone in 14th-century Europe, even a cheap deck was a far greater share of one's regular income and not a purchase to be taken lightly, just as books were rare and expensive before Gutenberg's press made good-quality printing relatively cheap and affordable.

My knowledge of the Islamic world is more limited, but there was a general ban on gambling, if I'm not mistaken, which resulted in the creation of a different playing card design used in that region than what was in common use in Europe.  It's not entirely dissimilar to how the creation of the card game Rook came to be - a religious group objected to playing cards of "Western" design because of their use in gambling, so they created their own simulacra which functioned in much the same way, but was not used for gambling.  Rook cards, while different in many ways from International Standard playing cards, can actually be used in much the same way - I would dare say that it's probably also the case with Islamic playing cards.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 03:27:12 AM by Don Boyer »
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NineLives

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Hey Sunish,
I hope you're getting back on the horse and keeping dreams alive :)

*wave*
Annette
 

 

leangyan

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Hey Sunish,
I hope you're getting back on the horse and keeping dreams alive :)

*wave*
Annette

Absolutely. Already reviewing the feedback, dashboard analytics and suggestions received for the future course of action.

Regards,
Sunish