You are Here:
Ellusionist Clearance

Author (Read 5420 times)

Ellusionist Clearance
« on: June 13, 2016, 07:06:33 PM »
 

Justin O.

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Discourse Deity
  • *
  • 636
    Posts
  • Reputation: 8
  • Charm gets you quite far. Guile gets you the rest.
http://www.ellusionist.com/clearance-items

Many great deals already sold out, but still Sultan Treasurys, Black Dealers, Gold Artifice for club members, Red Arcane, Black Artifice, Orange Hustlers and more all less than $20

They had Gold Arcanes and Red and White LTDs posted previously but likely sold out, some uncuts, tricks and DVDs listed as well.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 07:06:55 PM by Justin O. »
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2016, 06:17:10 PM »
 

mirciusx

  • Elite Member
  • *
  • 142
    Posts
  • Reputation: -4
  • love, peace, cards

  • DeviantArt:

  • Facebook:

  • Skype:

  • Twitter:
Red Arcane from 90 to 7? This is a f... bad since from E!  :mindf-ck:  >:(  >:( I've paid a lot for all limited decks, limited uncut sheets, a lot BC member ship, etc, just to sell this decks with less than 20?!?! WTH!  :o :o >:( >:( this is outrage!

"These are never being reprinted. Because of their limited nature..." Same old bul....really, they never get tired about it?

Also, wth is this one? 50usd for 3 decks "rebranded"? http://www.ellusionist.com/legacy-box-set.html
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 06:21:11 PM by mirciusx »
"Art is never finished, only abandoned" – Leonardo daVinci

"Measure twice, cut once." - Don Boyer
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2016, 06:22:15 PM »
 

mirciusx

  • Elite Member
  • *
  • 142
    Posts
  • Reputation: -4
  • love, peace, cards

  • DeviantArt:

  • Facebook:

  • Skype:

  • Twitter:
I'll never spend a dime for E anymore! That's it! And is not the last time that I've said that.  >:( >:( >:( :-[ :-[ :-[
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 06:22:52 PM by mirciusx »
"Art is never finished, only abandoned" – Leonardo daVinci

"Measure twice, cut once." - Don Boyer
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2016, 03:23:43 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
Red Arcane from 90 to 7? This is a f... bad since from E!  :mindf-ck:  >:(  >:( I've paid a lot for all limited decks, limited uncut sheets, a lot BC member ship, etc, just to sell this decks with less than 20?!?! WTH!  :o :o >:( >:( this is outrage!

"These are never being reprinted. Because of their limited nature..." Same old bul....really, they never get tired about it?

Also, wth is this one? 50usd for 3 decks "rebranded"? http://www.ellusionist.com/legacy-box-set.html

It's not hard to figure out for me.  E basically started the custom card craze but failed to keep pace with the level of innovation that took place with Kickstarter.  They cranked out deck after deck, all of which were decent but not exactly stellar, leaving them with a lot of merch that's just not moving, no matter how rare, scarce, whatever.  Can't make and sell new products without clearing out space for them by selling off the old products.

I can't even get the clearance items page to load.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2016, 02:21:15 PM »
 

cere23

  • True Member
  • *
  • 40
    Posts
  • Reputation: 0
I swear E has a habit of things like this,
i talked to one my local collectors 8 months ago,

He was upset that he bought some supposed to be super limited uncuts for like 100,  later found out they were giving it away with order or selling it for 15$ Less than a month later.
Almost, like punishing the ones who are most supportive,


Its like omg 5000 , so limited,, now it seems 2500 is not limited at all
Maybe we just dont have enough collectors.


Dan and Dave   I remember smoke and mirror private reserve was going for like 200$, now its like 40$ and was 52$ on D&D recently before giving them away in mystery decks.

Game of Death Rare Yellow, was like 40$ At one time,  i think I saw on art of play on black friday for like 10$

Now DTS limited of initial 1000 for sale, I imagine it to be 2500 print run, maybe more
Now just got a email. They are releasing another 200 just for me,(i feel special), and consider it a reserve.

now the NEW D&D private reserve have a print run of 2500 atleast
But they are not selling,

Who knows how many  T11 gold monarchs there are.

Its like a cartel.  Control the supply,   Speaking of that , anyone willing to some Jerry nuggets?


Apologies for the rant






 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2016, 04:22:50 PM »
 

Fess

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Aficionado
  • *
  • 1,444
    Posts
  • Reputation: 26
  • ;)
More access with lower price per deck and people complain?  :mindf-ck:

Thought I would chime in here, I should probably keep my mouth shut though haha. If we've said it once, we've said it a hundred times. There is no such thing as a rare modern playing card. Chase decks aren't limited or rare or special in any other way than being, Chase decks. They're for FUN. It's a great time getting a chase deck in your hands for the first time. If a company decides after years of slow rolling said chase deck to lift the gates for a moment and give access to them, well that's a beautiful thing. Instead of one or two of that chase deck, you can have more with ease! If you already have the chase deck, well you had the pleasure of the chase and the reward, now you get the pleasure of more on the cheap. If it's someone who hasn't had access to the chase deck for whatever reason, they can get in on that and enjoy the deck as well. The company gets to unload a portion of it's years old deck stock, making room for some other things. Those other things will be coming around the corner and maybe it will be a new chase deck. Something for more fun as they attempt to mix it up a bit.

Personally, I'm not one for getting bent out of shape over a chase deck. No matter the chase deck and I do have a lot of them myself. I get more bent out of shape when a deck costs $10 instead of $6, if I buy a brick I'm not getting a deal I used to get. Rather I'm paying what they should be sold for to begin with. (Talking to the big bois out there who  usually put out the chase decks.) Griping about that is pointless though, kickstarter shifted things. Accepted it and moved on.

Collecting playing cards is going to forever be a Luxury Hobby. I think it's a great hobby and I have a fondness for some decks that outweighs my fondness for my cat. It's still a Luxury Hobby. Kind of have to accept that aspect of collecting playing cards, especially when it comes to chase decks.
Part of my Collection updated infrequently but occasionally, when I remember. (I haven't in months.)
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2016, 05:32:30 PM »
 

cere23

  • True Member
  • *
  • 40
    Posts
  • Reputation: 0
More access with lower price per deck and people complain?  :mindf-ck:

Thought I would chime in here, I should probably keep my mouth shut though haha. If we've said it once, we've said it a hundred times. There is no such thing as a rare modern playing card. Chase decks aren't limited or rare or special in any other way than being, Chase decks. They're for FUN. It's a great time getting a chase deck in your hands for the first time. If a company decides after years of slow rolling said chase deck to lift the gates for a moment and give access to them, well that's a beautiful thing. Instead of one or two of that chase deck, you can have more with ease! If you already have the chase deck, well you had the pleasure of the chase and the reward, now you get the pleasure of more on the cheap. If it's someone who hasn't had access to the chase deck for whatever reason, they can get in on that and enjoy the deck as well. The company gets to unload a portion of it's years old deck stock, making room for some other things. Those other things will be coming around the corner and maybe it will be a new chase deck. Something for more fun as they attempt to mix it up a bit.

Personally, I'm not one for getting bent out of shape over a chase deck. No matter the chase deck and I do have a lot of them myself. I get more bent out of shape when a deck costs $10 instead of $6, if I buy a brick I'm not getting a deal I used to get. Rather I'm paying what they should be sold for to begin with. (Talking to the big bois out there who  usually put out the chase decks.) Griping about that is pointless though, kickstarter shifted things. Accepted it and moved on.

Collecting playing cards is going to forever be a Luxury Hobby. I think it's a great hobby and I have a fondness for some decks that outweighs my fondness for my cat. It's still a Luxury Hobby. Kind of have to accept that aspect of collecting playing cards, especially when it comes to chase decks.


I do not disagree with you. 
I like price per deck to be low.,  and I don't even like the idea of Chase Decks.

My main issue, like anything else, and not limited to playing cards,  is Slight to Heavy Manipulative Advertising.

Companies advertise like it will never be available again, "Get it NOW, before too late". "Only 1000 will ever be on sale,"
Then go figure, eventually it goes on sale again,  sometimes 80% discount,  I believe it will make people feel like a suckers,
(ie like the local collector I knew)
The same People that invest in that said company those most.

Moreover, I dislike of Producers controlling the supply, I know it's there right, just like there right to charge 22$ for a kick starter deck,  I don't hold anything against that, but I guess I like the idea of , Just releasing everything that was intended to be sold, and when it sells out,  it sells out.
 







 
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2016, 05:54:12 PM »
 

bhong

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Discourse Royalty
  • *
  • 377
    Posts
  • Reputation: 47
  • Mere-Mortal playing card collector
I think all companies need and have various strategies to move product and one of them is "buy $XXX amount and we'll give you this super special deck that's not available any where else!". In many ways, a lot of them have to kept to that method. Sometimes they run other promotions where you can randomly get that deck for a lot lower, like a lottery (ie. D&D Mystery decks).

I think you're describe two different problem, cere23.

The problem with E is that they're seem to be devaluing their product by intentionally selling their stuff super low half a year later or a year later, at least with some of their product as they've used a bunch of different sales strategy. They use to be quite found of the buy a brick and get a super rare LE re-colour you can't buy.

While other companies are just found more ways to give away their deck, but it's still effective free as you never paid for it except for some that put it up for a high price, but then I don't think they've ever intentionally devalued it as collectors gave it that specific price.

I think the problem is that E's marketing has always been a bit "wonky" to put it nicely while everyone else doesn't seem to go that far, at least in my memory. E will regularly go "look what we found in the vault! We'll never find some more again! Get it now!!". But ultimately a company has to do what a company has to do to make money and keep on thriving. And sometimes it is the honest truth that a company has found stuff that's misplaced and no one remembered anymore 'cause that staff member might be gone.

I think the question to ask why are you collecting? Is it to have super high value decks? If that's the case, I think modern might not be the best thing as price will fluctuate for that in many more years to come and maybe vintage or antique deck is the way to go with more certainty of value upon return or at least steady value. If it's collecting for cool things, maybe wait it out for a cheaper means to get that deck (ie. lower prices or even trade someone else who might have extras).

A luxury hobby shouldn't be pissing you off 'cause there's a lot of better ways to spend that money. I think you want companies to play by your rules and ultimately, they will play by whatever rules works for them.
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2016, 07:04:32 PM »
 

cere23

  • True Member
  • *
  • 40
    Posts
  • Reputation: 0
I think all companies need and have various strategies to move product and one of them is "buy $XXX amount and we'll give you this super special deck that's not available any where else!". In many ways, a lot of them have to kept to that method. Sometimes they run other promotions where you can randomly get that deck for a lot lower, like a lottery (ie. D&D Mystery decks).

I think you're describe two different problem, cere23.

The problem with E is that they're seem to be devaluing their product by intentionally selling their stuff super low half a year later or a year later, at least with some of their product as they've used a bunch of different sales strategy. They use to be quite found of the buy a brick and get a super rare LE re-colour you can't buy.

While other companies are just found more ways to give away their deck, but it's still effective free as you never paid for it except for some that put it up for a high price, but then I don't think they've ever intentionally devalued it as collectors gave it that specific price.

I think the problem is that E's marketing has always been a bit "wonky" to put it nicely while everyone else doesn't seem to go that far, at least in my memory. E will regularly go "look what we found in the vault! We'll never find some more again! Get it now!!". But ultimately a company has to do what a company has to do to make money and keep on thriving. And sometimes it is the honest truth that a company has found stuff that's misplaced and no one remembered anymore 'cause that staff member might be gone.

I think the question to ask why are you collecting? Is it to have super high value decks? If that's the case, I think modern might not be the best thing as price will fluctuate for that in many more years to come and maybe vintage or antique deck is the way to go with more certainty of value upon return or at least steady value. If it's collecting for cool things, maybe wait it out for a cheaper means to get that deck (ie. lower prices or even trade someone else who might have extras).

A luxury hobby shouldn't be pissing you off 'cause there's a lot of better ways to spend that money. I think you want companies to play by your rules and ultimately, they will play by whatever rules works for them.

I do not disagree with what you have said
im not really pissed off, or am generally pissed off at manipulative marketing .

My first post in this thread was more about examples of perception of rarity with its swings like you mentioned,

I collect because I like playing cards , I only been collecting for 11 months,
i didnt have my first kickstarter deck till 4 months into it. i just collected regular Bikes, bees,
Cheapest of the cheap.  if I dont like it. i'll skip it. No matter the value.
My favorites is still the standard bees and bikes,

My ideals are same for most companies, not exclusive to playing cards"
,is  just be honest, and not to be so manipulative, which is rare these days.

I have no qualms about Spend x amount of money to get a get rare deck
I have no qaulms charging x amount.
I do find it slightly slap in the face if they sell something for 100$ Uncut sheet advertising it as rare,
Then sell it for 15$  weeks later. i beleve it just upsets the customers. Even though i took advantage of the lower prices. I am just trying to put myself in those buyer's shoes.

my rant is more of a preference, we all have preferences. I never boycotted any card company
If i were to boycott  Ellusionist , it be more so due to customer support.

I have no rules for companies to play by, If a company rule is to lie to get the most profit,
i dont have to happy about that,   im not pointing any fingers with that comment at all , to be clear.


Really, I didnt think it was angry post, sorry if i came out like that.
I enjoy most all the card companies to some extent.
One of my faves being penguinmagic, just because I like their vibe.

With that being said, Ellusionist is giving away 1 Million dollars,
I hope they legitmently do so, just because they said they will.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 07:07:49 PM by cere23 »
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2016, 08:13:40 PM »
 

hecrob

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Discourse Lover
  • *
  • 222
    Posts
  • Reputation: 22
  • Magically Delicious

  • Facebook:
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me

The thing with ellusionist is that they are happy giving no explanations as to why they do what they do.

Examples:

· They NEVER explained what happened if people wanted to subscribe for a 3rd year in a row to the Black Club (there was no publicity of any kind about the Black Club year 3) while the first and second years of the club were lacking but still had a lot of publicity and

· They HYPED and told everybody that X decks were super limited and rare never to be reprinted, to some of us who are wholesalers they even dared to write to us saying "We will NEVER sell this deck in our store" only to sell them at their store without any kind of notice and at a super low price.

· They are happy recolouring every deck that comes out of the cash cow that is Daniel Madison for them.


So no, I haven't bought stuff from them in a long time and i actively avoid doing it.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 08:14:44 PM by hecrob »
Form Follows Function
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2016, 09:35:18 PM »
 

bhong

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Discourse Royalty
  • *
  • 377
    Posts
  • Reputation: 47
  • Mere-Mortal playing card collector

Really, I didnt think it was angry post, sorry if i came out like that.


I didn't think you were upset, ceres23, but it mostly a suggestion. I've see more than enough friends and people get raging upset over their luxury hobby and it's confusing to me.

I'm with hecrob in that if I dislike how a company is going about their business, I just stop buying from them regardless of whatever they put out until it changes. Does it hurt them? Honestly, probably not as I never did buy a lot.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 09:36:23 PM by bhong »
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2016, 03:16:29 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
I finally got the page to load.  Lots of goodies, low prices.  But some of it is stuff that just didn't sell well.  Sure, the Black Club stuff is now dirt cheap - but they basically blew up the Black Club after everyone felt burned in the first year; they probably had a lot fewer members in the years following, thus they're sitting on merch that's "rare" and "sought after" but also limited only for sale to a tiny pool of club members so it sits around taking space in the warehouse for months on end.  Look at the other stuff - there's a few tricks, there's those fiber-optic light-up bands that look cool for about the first 15 seconds you're wearing them, there's those card boxes that people cracked wise about - holds 15 decks and lots of empty space!  They're things they needed to unload so they can make room for new (hopefully better-selling) products.

You may have paid the top-dollar price for some of these things, but remember, you also had them for all this time before the sale began.  (That means a lot less if you bought them, say, last month, but a few of these things have been in their inventory for many months now and most of the people who wanted them got them long ago.)

Yes, this is a luxury hobby.  I've said it many times.  It doesn't necessarily have to be - but if you choose the non-luxury path, you're not chasing down premium giveaway decks, costly rarities, etc. in the first place.  And your collection's probably a lot smaller than many.

I once asked a USPC rep how many decks their customers buy on average - this is taking ALL their customers into account; collectors, magicians, poker players, children, retirees, someone looking to play a little solitaire once in a while, etc.  The answer surprised the hell out of me - one deck every eighteen months!  So even buying just a single deck a month makes you a big-deal customer, well above their average!  Even a single deck a year outstrips the average!
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2016, 04:46:25 PM »
 

Fess

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Aficionado
  • *
  • 1,444
    Posts
  • Reputation: 26
  • ;)
I once asked a USPC rep how many decks their customers buy on average - this is taking ALL their customers into account; collectors, magicians, poker players, children, retirees, someone looking to play a little solitaire once in a while, etc.  The answer surprised the hell out of me - one deck every eighteen months!  So even buying just a single deck a month makes you a big-deal customer, well above their average!  Even a single deck a year outstrips the average!

WHAT?! One deck every eighteen months?! I'm trying to keep conscious here, that just destroyed my reality. Completely shattered. Unexpected feel good moment... I'm a super important customer! Who knew? With 30% off I could be even more important, just saying if anyone who has that pull is reading this. I'm sick enough to squeeze a little more blood out of the turnip for a deal.

One deck in eighteen months. I'm worth a whole box full of that projection in Tally-Ho circle backs alone haha.
Part of my Collection updated infrequently but occasionally, when I remember. (I haven't in months.)
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2016, 05:16:48 PM »
 

hecrob

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Discourse Lover
  • *
  • 222
    Posts
  • Reputation: 22
  • Magically Delicious

  • Facebook:
 1 deck every 18 months? :o

Well then we collectors must be at the top of their list of "VIPs"
Form Follows Function
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2016, 11:38:02 AM »
 

cere23

  • True Member
  • *
  • 40
    Posts
  • Reputation: 0
1 deck every 18 months? :o

Well then we collectors must be at the top of their list of "VIPs"

I am not sure how the math works on this, and what constitutes as  "customer of theirs"
I buy a Slurpee every maybe once a year,   I do not consider myself a Slurpee customer.

 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2016, 04:53:33 PM »
 

mirciusx

  • Elite Member
  • *
  • 142
    Posts
  • Reputation: -4
  • love, peace, cards

  • DeviantArt:

  • Facebook:

  • Skype:

  • Twitter:
One word...a LOT of money for uncut sheets. Still have those...I have 12 uncut from E.

Let's see, hmm. Take the 4 at clearance for example. 380 usd vs 28 usd "at clearance". Is this legal?! In my country no for sure. They can't drop the price like this...is like ~26-29 times less than I've paid.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 05:01:01 PM by mirciusx »
"Art is never finished, only abandoned" – Leonardo daVinci

"Measure twice, cut once." - Don Boyer
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2016, 06:06:05 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
1 deck every 18 months? :o

Well then we collectors must be at the top of their list of "VIPs"

I am not sure how the math works on this, and what constitutes as  "customer of theirs"
I buy a Slurpee every maybe once a year,   I do not consider myself a Slurpee customer.

"Customer" in this case would be anyone who buys a pack of their cards - regardless of frequency.

One word...a LOT of money for uncut sheets. Still have those...I have 12 uncut from E.

Let's see, hmm. Take the 4 at clearance for example. 380 usd vs 28 usd "at clearance". Is this legal?! In my country no for sure. They can't drop the price like this...is like ~26-29 times less than I've paid.



In the US, it's entirely legal for a merchant to sell his goods for one price one day and drop the price the next day to as low as he wishes, especially when you are talking about luxury items not necessary for life, such as gasoline, food staples, etc.  Raising prices can be considered "price gouging" in cases of rarity for specific items, but playing cards and uncut sheets wouldn't be one of them.  It might leave a bad taste in the mouths of the customers who paid the full price, but look at it from their perspective - they've had the merchandise piling up in their stockrooms for months on end without enough movement to get them gone and they have to make room for the new goods or watch sales completely stagnate.

I've heard of some retailers having sympathy on customers who made a recent purchase of an item just before it went on sale - for example, if you'd purchased within two weeks before the sale at full price.  Sometimes, they're willing to give you a refund or store credit for the difference in order to keep you happy as a customer and coming back for more.  It's worth a try if your purchase was recent.  But for anything older than a month, it's a lot less likely.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2016, 12:28:28 PM »
 

cere23

  • True Member
  • *
  • 40
    Posts
  • Reputation: 0

I suppose that makes sense then, before 2016. I may have bought  5decks in my lifetime.
So once every 6 years on avg.

As for  Ellusionist, I wonder if it is that difficult for them to have balance, as to knowing their market. I feel like they target people who willing to pay at  any price, and once thats over, they give it away.  instead of maybe pricing it at lower price and able to sell more,  just seems better for buisness.
But oh well.





« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 12:32:19 PM by cere23 »
 

Re: Ellusionist Clearance
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2016, 03:41:03 PM »
 

mirciusx

  • Elite Member
  • *
  • 142
    Posts
  • Reputation: -4
  • love, peace, cards

  • DeviantArt:

  • Facebook:

  • Skype:

  • Twitter:
I have over 300 decks in my collection from E and I think over 4000 usd for the things I've bought from E. I've stopped before is too late. At last for me. 

At least they could offer a voucher/discount to buy another things from E. I think there is a lot of difference between old stuff and new stuff. New decks design are nothing like ever before on E's desk.
"Art is never finished, only abandoned" – Leonardo daVinci

"Measure twice, cut once." - Don Boyer