Fake Streamlines?

[Wild Joker]

I bought a Streamline deck today (don't know why, just a whim, I guess) . . . I'm fairly certain that this deck might be fake. It says USPC on the box and the Ace of Spades, but they contradict themselves: the Ace of Spades says Cincinatti, OH, but the box says Erlanger, KY; not only that, but the box also says "Made in China." The deck itself is plastic (according to the box, "Plastic coated with smooth finish") very much like Cartamundi's plastic cards (with that same, awful smell), and the card designs are terrible: the pips and royalty look nothing like USPC standards. The spades look okay, and I don't mind the hearts, but the clubs are really small and squished, and the diamonds are really large and fat; the face cards look as though they were designed by an art school dropout - even worse than Cartamundi's royalty. Yeesh.

[Don Boyer]

I bought a Streamline deck today (don't know why, just a whim, I guess) . . . I'm fairly certain that this deck might be fake. It says USPC on the box and the Ace of Spades, but they contradict themselves: the Ace of Spades says Cincinatti, OH, but the box says Erlanger, KY; not only that, but the box also says "Made in China." The deck itself is plastic (according to the box, "Plastic coated with smooth finish") very much like Cartamundi's plastic cards (with that same, awful smell), and the card designs are terrible: the pips and royalty look nothing like USPC standards. The spades look okay, and I don't mind the hearts, but the clubs are really small and squished, and the diamonds are really large and fat; the face cards look as though they were designed by an art school dropout - even worse than Cartamundi's royalty. Yeesh.

Some photos might be a good idea.  And perhaps a new topic, since this isn't about your two decks of Bees anymore...

[bhong]

I bought a Streamline deck today (don't know why, just a whim, I guess) . . . I'm fairly certain that this deck might be fake. It says USPC on the box and the Ace of Spades, but they contradict themselves: the Ace of Spades says Cincinatti, OH, but the box says Erlanger, KY; not only that, but the box also says "Made in China." The deck itself is plastic (according to the box, "Plastic coated with smooth finish") very much like Cartamundi's plastic cards (with that same, awful smell), and the card designs are terrible: the pips and royalty look nothing like USPC standards. The spades look okay, and I don't mind the hearts, but the clubs are really small and squished, and the diamonds are really large and fat; the face cards look as though they were designed by an art school dropout - even worse than Cartamundi's royalty. Yeesh.

I believe I may know which Streamline deck you're talking about. There should be an older post on the Discourse, I believe, talking about it. For a time I believe that USPCC printed the Streamline and then outsourced it to China. The ones for China are pretty bad and I believe they're pretty much sold at discount stores. I got a pair of red and blue here in Toronto and they feel kind of like bad dollar store quality playing cards.

[Don Boyer]

I bought a Streamline deck today (don't know why, just a whim, I guess) . . . I'm fairly certain that this deck might be fake. It says USPC on the box and the Ace of Spades, but they contradict themselves: the Ace of Spades says Cincinatti, OH, but the box says Erlanger, KY; not only that, but the box also says "Made in China." The deck itself is plastic (according to the box, "Plastic coated with smooth finish") very much like Cartamundi's plastic cards (with that same, awful smell), and the card designs are terrible: the pips and royalty look nothing like USPC standards. The spades look okay, and I don't mind the hearts, but the clubs are really small and squished, and the diamonds are really large and fat; the face cards look as though they were designed by an art school dropout - even worse than Cartamundi's royalty. Yeesh.

I believe I may know which Streamline deck you're talking about. There should be an older post on the Discourse, I believe, talking about it. For a time I believe that USPCC printed the Streamline and then outsourced it to China. The ones for China are pretty bad and I believe they're pretty much sold at discount stores. I got a pair of red and blue here in Toronto and they feel kind of like bad dollar store quality playing cards.

Sigh.  I broke the posts off into a new topic...

I wrote a good number of the posts on that topic.  But there's a little problem.  These aren't the ones he's talking about.

Wild Joker specifically mentioned that the Ace of Spades had "Cincinnati, OH" printed on it, while the box said both "Erlanger, KY" and "Made in China."  The Chinese-made decks would never have said "Cincinnati, OH" on the AoS and were manufactured BEFORE the company moved to Kentucky, so Erlanger, KY AND Made in China would never have appeared on the same box.

The only issue I see here is that there's little to no incentive to forge Streamlines.  They aren't a premium deck.  Erlanger-made Streamlines can be had from select Wal-Mart stores for $1 a pack.  Even Bicycles aren't commonly forged - it's usually Bees, which sell for a premium price are are one of the most popular (and copied) brands in China.  The only Bike copies I've ever seen were altered vintage backs sold under a different brand name, or in the case of US Games Systems and their Rally brand cards, a back design that went into the public domain and wasn't trademarked by USPC in time to protect it.  It seems silly to forge a deck when the cost of forging it will be so close to if not more than the cost of simply buying it at wholesale and selling it at retail.

I'd really want to see photos of this deck to know for myself what the story is.

It's impossible to go by the smell - Magic Finish has a strong chemical smell to them as well, and they're USPC-made.  No US made cards are "Plastic coated with smooth finish" anymore.  The Federal government requires US card manufacturers to use very high post-consumer recycled content in the paper for the cards and boxes, vegetable-based dyes in the inks and starch-based paper coatings.  Plastics and petrochemicals have been mandated out and removed from the process, except perhaps from the cellophane, and even that might be some kind of plant-based cellulose these days - I don't know.  The one company that's most heavily impacted by the ruling is the one company that owns a near-monopoly of the domestically-produced market - USPC.

[bhong]

I'm not sure what versions Wild Joker Has.

I've got a Canadian edition of Streamline deck I bought a few years ago.

If you look at the fine print on the back of the tuck, it mentions being imported by USPCC Erlanger and Made in China. As well as the AoS does have "Cincinatti Ohio" on it. I honestly doubt it's a fake as it's such a cheap line deck, as you mentioned, that it's not worth the bother. My best guess is that no one bother to double check the artwork and what not when USPCC moved and just kept all the cards the same. It's smooth plastic coated cards and no embossing of any kind on it.

EDIT: Quick scan of the back of the tuck and AoS.

[Wild Joker]

That pretty much looks like what I have, but since Don asked for photos, here's what I have to offer:

Box details:


Copyright contradiction:


Odd-looking pips:


Some of the face cards:


It wasn't until I was taking photos that I noticed some oddities about the face cards: notice there's a lot of misalignment on the King of Clubs and Queen of Hearts; the former's crown is disconnected from the head on one side and disconnected from the border on the other, meanwhile, notice the misaligning with the coloring on both of them. Those Jacks? I don't know, but those are some of the weirdest-looking Jacks I've ever seen.

[bhong]

I think it should be legit. If you look at the copy on the tuck, it's imported and distributed by USPCC, but they have to list where the decks is printed, in this case, China. Probably due to how cheap the decks are (in terms of cost and profit they can make on it), they decided to outsource printing to China and not a good printer, hence the quality of it. Even though USPCC has its own printer, it's probably not worth the cost and time to print Streamline with their own presses compared to what they sell the deck for.

As for the work, I imagine at one time every other company producing artwork has their own sets of variation on the standard court sets, hence why they're close enough, but yet different from what we see USPCC use these days. I'm not sure if Streamline was from USPCC all along, or more than likely, one of the many companies that was brought up by them over the years, which would mean that they inherited all the artwork and such. The off-alignment is due to how the old printing presses were run. If they're not careful and plates aren't lined up correctly (as each colour would have its own plate) things would look off. Whenever the artwork was digitized for modern printing, I'm guessing no one bother to "correct" it and just directly transferred the artwork and all its imperfection including colours being off alignment and such.

[Wild Joker]

So in other words, Streamline is apparently perhaps like a "stepchild" USPCC deck brand that they don't really care about then? Well, that would explain the low overall quality and handling in comparison to higher quality deck brands like Bicycle and Bee. That, and it would also explain why the deck was so dirt cheap too (like $1.19, I think). Ironically, I got this in the same store I had gotten my Bees.

[Don Boyer]

You're right in that Streamlines are a "stepchild" deck, inherited by USPC when they bought out Arrco.

I think I know the situation here.  Remember there was a big event in USPC history in 2009, right around the time these decks were being made.  The company headquarters in Erlanger was "christened" August of that year.  Even Bicycle decks have been known to have a mismatch between what was printed on the box and what was printed on the Ace of Spades for decks released in that year, but for them, it was mostly the other way around - classic-style boxes that said Cincinnati, Aces of Spades that said Erlanger.  In that case, the telltale for knowing the difference was the box seal - black boxes seals became standard issue in Erlanger, so a classic-style Bicycle box with a black deck seal almost invariably contains a Kentucky-made deck.

It's entirely possible that the cards were printed in China before the official changeover but the boxes were printed after, resulting in the mismatch.  It's also possible that whoever was responsible for the graphics didn't catch the Ace of Spades not being updated until after the cards were printed.

And they're definitely Canadian-issue decks.  The American ones don't have the French wording on the boxes along with English.

I can say this, however - by 2010, USPC had stopped using their Chinese printers for all but their Maverick brand decks.  I own Streamlines very similar to these with a 2010 copyright date on the box that state they were made in Erlanger.  They're actually quite good quality, on par with smooth Bicycles.

I also noticed they passed the "stone test" - where I work, we have a desk made of stone that tends to be cold in the winter months even though the space is heated.  In the cold, the top cards in a stack of cards will have a tendency to develop a slight, temporary warp to them.  My 2010 US-made Streamlines, however, didn't bend at all.  I suspect it has something to do with the smooth surface - greater surface integrity leads to a stiffer, less-vulnerable card.  I've noticed that Ivory Bee decks tend to be a lot more stiff than Cambric Bee decks - same thing, Ivory is smooth, Cambric is embossed, and the embossing is created by pressing steel rollers with many teeny little bumps on them into the surface of the paper, in essence "damaging" the surface.

[Wild Joker]

Even Bicycle decks have been known to have a mismatch between what was printed on the box and what was printed on the Ace of Spades for decks released in that year, but for them, it was mostly the other way around - classic-style boxes that said Cincinnati, Aces of Spades that said Erlanger.  In that case, the telltale for knowing the difference was the box seal - black boxes seals became standard issue in Erlanger, so a classic-style Bicycle box with a black deck seal almost invariably contains a Kentucky-made deck.

I remember my first set of Bikes I got sometime late September-early October 2009 at Walmart, but I believe they may have been on the shelf for quite some time, as I remember both the boxes and the Jokers had the Cincinatti address, but I do seem to recall they had the black seal on the boxes. My replacement Bikes that I got last year are definitely Erlanger all the way: says so on the boxes and Jokers, and the boxes open in front instead of the back (not to mention the FREE APP button on the front of the boxes).

And they're definitely Canadian-issue decks.  The American ones don't have the French wording on the boxes along with English.

Wow. How do you suppose they got all the way down here in the deep south then?

[Don Boyer]

Even Bicycle decks have been known to have a mismatch between what was printed on the box and what was printed on the Ace of Spades for decks released in that year, but for them, it was mostly the other way around - classic-style boxes that said Cincinnati, Aces of Spades that said Erlanger.  In that case, the telltale for knowing the difference was the box seal - black boxes seals became standard issue in Erlanger, so a classic-style Bicycle box with a black deck seal almost invariably contains a Kentucky-made deck.

I remember my first set of Bikes I got sometime late September-early October 2009 at Walmart, but I believe they may have been on the shelf for quite some time, as I remember both the boxes and the Jokers had the Cincinatti address, but I do seem to recall they had the black seal on the boxes. My replacement Bikes that I got last year are definitely Erlanger all the way: says so on the boxes and Jokers, and the boxes open in front instead of the back (not to mention the FREE APP button on the front of the boxes).

And they're definitely Canadian-issue decks.  The American ones don't have the French wording on the boxes along with English.

Wow. How do you suppose they got all the way down here in the deep south then?

It's very easy to tell new Bicycle Rider Back Erlanger decks from old Cincinnati decks these days.  All new Erlanger decks (post-transition) have the "Bicycle Standard" modern box design instead of the old "Classic" box design, with the exception of "Bicycle 807" decks, which are hard to find outside of USPC's own shop or perhaps some magic stores.  The 807 decks are new Rider Back decks in the Classic box, so named by USPC because of the "807" in the serial number at the bottom of the box (they needed a new name to differentiate them from the Bicycle 808/Bicycle Standard decks.  (And yes, the stone mile marker still says "808" on the King Joker - the cards in the 807 box are in every way identical to the Standards sold in drugstores and big box retailers all over the country.)  They're identical to the final issue from Cincinnati with the exception that they list Erlanger as the city of origin.  But by and large, everyone sees the "Standard" deck boxes, so named by collectors because instead of saying "Rider Back" and "Playing Cards" on the face, they now say "Standard" - and they also have an ad on the box back instead of a reproduction of the card back design, making them less desirable for certain magic tricks using specific gaffed cards and/or boxes.  For example, Peter Eggink has a trick where you put a box on top of the deck and the deck "penetrates" the box to wind up inside of it - that requires the Classic style box, can't do it with the modern "Standard" box.

How did you end up getting a Canadian deck down South?  Dunno.  USPC's decks are, with rare exception, all are made in the greater Cincinnati area (Erlanger, Kentucky is a Cincinnati suburb and closer to the international airport).  They haven't printed decks in Canada for a number of years now - they used to make them in Canada under the name "International Playing Card Company," but that company now exists solely as the Canadian marketing arm of USPC and sells US-made decks printed with English and French on the packaging to conform to Canadian law.  Very few of those English/French decks are intended for US sale - one of the rare exceptions would be the USPC edition of the Bicycle Guardians designed by Theory11.  T11 makes one version in a slightly higher-end tuck box with a gaff card (double backer) while USPC's version has English/French packaging and replaces the gaff card with a card that has instructions for a simple magic trick.

You probably got your Canadian Bicycles the same way I get my British-made Cadbury and Kit-Kat bars in the Irish neighborhood near where I live or the local bodega near work gets their Mexican Coca-Cola in glass bottles made with real cane sugar - someone specially ordered them.  Maybe they caught a deal through the web or a going-out-of-business sale, maybe they "fell off the back of the truck," maybe they were specially "imported"/diverted, whatever - but somehow, whomever you got them from bought them outside of normal channels and they ended up on that person's store shelves, awaiting your purchase.

[Wild Joker]

One thing I did forget to mention about the Streamline deck I got was that I noticed the edges had a purplish hue to them, which I've never seen before on a deck. Last night, I noticed a corner on one of the cards had started to peel apart, so I further peeled it apart to take a look at what the stock looked like, and I have to say, it almost looks as if they just used grade school blue construction paper for stock.

[bhong]

I don't believe it's so much construction paper as a layer they have inside so that the cards don't send out being transparent when held up to the light. I know for some manufacturers that they have their own glue that dress opaque and ends up coloured. Collectable Trading Cards like Magic the Gathering is like that if you rip a card in half.

[Paul.Middleton]

I second all those replies and comments

Is the deck from us by any chance? We have some China printed Streamlines, which we're almost out of.

[Don Boyer]

One thing I did forget to mention about the Streamline deck I got was that I noticed the edges had a purplish hue to them, which I've never seen before on a deck. Last night, I noticed a corner on one of the cards had started to peel apart, so I further peeled it apart to take a look at what the stock looked like, and I have to say, it almost looks as if they just used grade school blue construction paper for stock.

High-quality card paper uses a "black core" stock - pasteboard with a layer of graphite-infused glue to create opacity, preventing the cards from being readable from the back when there's a bright light behind them.

Lesser-quality cards will use a "blue core" stock - I have no idea what creates the blue, but it's not as dense as the black core created by graphite.  Your cards appear to have this stock.

The cheapest stocks have no adequate opacity element blended into the glue and can be read from the back when placed in front of a bright light.

When you accidentally (or intentionally) get the edges of the card wet, you can see the color of the core appear as colored streaks on the card's edge - streaks which are exceptionally visible when the cards are in a stack.  Moisture on one's hands can be enough to make this appear visible.  I've ruined many a deck this way, as have my spectators!