Difference between 2011 Aristocrats (2 Versions?)

[cere23]

Wondering why was there 2 different Aristocrat Versions (Both states 2011)
Did USPCC just decide to do cheaper packaging ? 
One on Right with lighter color, has seems more embossed with shield looks slightly bigger

Thanks, any info would be appreciated.
C

[Don Boyer]

Wondering why was there 2 different Aristocrat Versions (Both states 2011)
Did USPCC just decide to do cheaper packaging ? 
One on Right with lighter color, has seems more embossed with shield looks slightly bigger

Thanks, any info would be appreciated.
C

I know only of a single print run.  It's possible that the ink on the right box faded due to exposure to light - I've seen that happen before.  Just a guess.  It's also distinctly possible that they ran out of the "better" tucks partway through the print run and went for some cheaper-looking boxes - I could think of reasons why, but again, it's just a guess.  The latter is possible based solely on the fact that these decks appear to have been printed in large numbers - I'd guess the print run total was at least in the low five figures.  At the time they were printed, custom decks still had a minimum run size of 5000.  This was an in-house print run as opposed to being produced by a third party so they might have made quite a few more, a print run along the size of what Ellusionist might order for their Masters decks or the Blue Crown might order for their Crown decks - at least 10,000, perhaps even 20,000 or 25,000, but probably not much more than that.

[cere23]

Thank you don

it sounds like they start using different tuck ,
Maybe cost savings.
i notice when those started reviewing the decks prolly bought them when they were just releaed, and the tucks seems to majority the lighter color one,

the newer D&D green aristocrat mimics the color of the darker version,

[Don Boyer]

Thank you don

it sounds like they start using different tuck ,
Maybe cost savings.
i notice when those started reviewing the decks prolly bought them when they were just releaed, and the tucks seems to majority the lighter color one,

the newer D&D green aristocrat mimics the color of the darker version,

If I'm not mistaken, the green Aristocrats were specially-ordered as a private print run for Magic Apple and Dan and Dave rather than being produced by USPC themselves.  A MAJOR difference between the older decks and the new ones is that the unique Aristocrat stock is no longer being produced by USPC - the new ones are one Bicycle stock.  It's not a bad stock, really - but it's not Aristocrat stock.  Aristocrat had a certain thickness and softness to it that Bicycle stock doesn't have.

[cere23]

Thank you don

it sounds like they start using different tuck ,
Maybe cost savings.
i notice when those started reviewing the decks prolly bought them when they were just releaed, and the tucks seems to majority the lighter color one,



the newer D&D green aristocrat mimics the color of the darker version,

If I'm not mistaken, the green Aristocrats were specially-ordered as a private print run for Magic Apple and Dan and Dave rather than being produced by USPC themselves.  A MAJOR difference between the older decks and the new ones is that the unique Aristocrat stock is no longer being produced by USPC - the new ones are one Bicycle stock.  It's not a bad stock, really - but it's not Aristocrat stock.  Aristocrat had a certain thickness and softness to it that Bicycle stock doesn't have.

Too bad,  Aristo Stock may be best ever

[durak]

Hi,

actually there has been more print(s) of this deck, I have a deck dated week 6 2015 on the Ace of Spades and with a tuck dated 2011. I think in general the date on a tuck case has very little meaning, other than you can expect the cards to be printed after that date - USPC does not change them yearly.

I can't compare them to the original print as I only have this one, but it does feel a lot closer to Bicycle than to my 2006 Ohio made casino Aristocrat deck for what its worth.

USPC does still seem to market Aristocrats to casinos. Incidentally, despite the high praise from card collectors/users they are actually a value brand. I intend to write them and see if they are willing to clarify in general about the differences of consumer and casino cards they produce.

[Don Boyer]

Hi,

actually there has been more print(s) of this deck, I have a deck dated week 6 2015 on the Ace of Spades and with a tuck dated 2011. I think in general the date on a tuck case has very little meaning, other than you can expect the cards to be printed after that date - USPC does not change them yearly.

I can't compare them to the original print as I only have this one, but it does feel a lot closer to Bicycle than to my 2006 Ohio made casino Aristocrat deck for what its worth.

USPC does still seem to market Aristocrats to casinos. Incidentally, despite the high praise from card collectors/users they are actually a value brand. I intend to write them and see if they are willing to clarify in general about the differences of consumer and casino cards they produce.

That's unusual - USPC doesn't usually put date codes on the Ace of Spades for print runs being produced for third parties.

Go ahead and give it a shot if you like, but USPC are not likely to discuss their casino business with you unless you're a purchaser for a casino.  But to sum it up in as few words as possible, to the best of my knowledge - casinos make up the majority of their custom printing business, hence the reason why they have a different division to handle casino sales.  They pay well and order in huge quantities, so they tend to get whatever it is that they request.

If I approach the Custom Department, as some have in the past, and asked for a deck to be traditionally cut, they'll hem and haw over it, tell me that it will come out with a rough edge, etc.; casinos get traditionally cut cards most of the time and no one at USPC's Casino Department bats an eyelash about it.  Perhaps decks made using the web press are easier to traditionally cut than ones from the sheet-fed press?  I have no idea.  As far as I know, they use the same cutter and have the same sheet size.

Casinos also get security features built into their decks and often order decks that are pre-shuffled, premium services that simply aren't offered in the Custom Department.

To summarize, they apply the golden rule - he who has the gold (and is willing to spend it) makes the rules!  You can't fault them for it - they're a business, not a charity.

[durak]

That's unusual - USPC doesn't usually put date codes on the Ace of Spades for print runs being produced for third parties.

Go ahead and give it a shot if you like, but USPC are not likely to discuss their casino business with you unless you're a purchaser for a casino.  But to sum it up in as few words as possible, to the best of my knowledge - casinos make up the majority of their custom printing business, hence the reason why they have a different division to handle casino sales.  They pay well and order in huge quantities, so they tend to get whatever it is that they request.

If I approach the Custom Department, as some have in the past, and asked for a deck to be traditionally cut, they'll hem and haw over it, tell me that it will come out with a rough edge, etc.; casinos get traditionally cut cards most of the time and no one at USPC's Casino Department bats an eyelash about it.  Perhaps decks made using the web press are easier to traditionally cut than ones from the sheet-fed press?  I have no idea.  As far as I know, they use the same cutter and have the same sheet size.

Casinos also get security features built into their decks and often order decks that are pre-shuffled, premium services that simply aren't offered in the Custom Department.

To summarize, they apply the golden rule - he who has the gold (and is willing to spend it) makes the rules!  You can't fault them for it - they're a business, not a charity.

Hi Don,

thank you for the reply and your other writings in this forum, I have learnt very much here reading your posts. My interest in playing cards is new, but I find the USPC making their own card stock very intriguing subject. It seems for most people the interest in the manufacturing part is quite low - old half truths and misconceptions are abound. Yes I agree I don't have too high hopes of USPC revealing much about their operations, but I'll try to get something.
They have some brochures about their casino offerings and the process in their website:
http://www.usplayingcard.com/casino/

The date on the Aristocrats does imply (like you have written) that the Aristocrat red & blue are somewhat in-house production from USPC. "Somewhat" because they don't sell them straight to consumers themselves, so maybe it is more in line of "available for production wholesale orders". The original run from 2011 also has production codes on the AoS like mine do.
http://playingcards.wdfiles.com/local--files/other-uspcc%3Aaristocrat-banknote/Aristocrat%20Bank%20Note%20Reprints.JPG
The green edition which has ad cards from Magic-apple and Art of play doesn't have a production code on the AoS.

The web press and its relation to traditional cut is another interesting subject. I have a feeling that at present time the "standard order of production", meaning the way of production that is used for most everything they make (=casino orders, standard designs of their own consumer brands) ends up with a traditional cut. All my standard Bicycle, Bicycle Seconds, Bee, Tally-Ho decks are from 2015-2016, and each one is traditionally cut. On the other the hand custom decks I have (Mandolin back Bicycles (2016)*, the Aristocrats in question (2015), an Ellusionist deck (2014)*, a custom Bee branded deck (2014)*) are all cut with the blade entering from the back side.

* dates from tuck cases or the internet, as none of these have a date on the AoS.

[Don Boyer]

That's unusual - USPC doesn't usually put date codes on the Ace of Spades for print runs being produced for third parties.

Go ahead and give it a shot if you like, but USPC are not likely to discuss their casino business with you unless you're a purchaser for a casino.  But to sum it up in as few words as possible, to the best of my knowledge - casinos make up the majority of their custom printing business, hence the reason why they have a different division to handle casino sales.  They pay well and order in huge quantities, so they tend to get whatever it is that they request.

If I approach the Custom Department, as some have in the past, and asked for a deck to be traditionally cut, they'll hem and haw over it, tell me that it will come out with a rough edge, etc.; casinos get traditionally cut cards most of the time and no one at USPC's Casino Department bats an eyelash about it.  Perhaps decks made using the web press are easier to traditionally cut than ones from the sheet-fed press?  I have no idea.  As far as I know, they use the same cutter and have the same sheet size.

Casinos also get security features built into their decks and often order decks that are pre-shuffled, premium services that simply aren't offered in the Custom Department.

To summarize, they apply the golden rule - he who has the gold (and is willing to spend it) makes the rules!  You can't fault them for it - they're a business, not a charity.

Hi Don,

thank you for the reply and your other writings in this forum, I have learnt very much here reading your posts. My interest in playing cards is new, but I find the USPC making their own card stock very intriguing subject. It seems for most people the interest in the manufacturing part is quite low - old half truths and misconceptions are abound. Yes I agree I don't have too high hopes of USPC revealing much about their operations, but I'll try to get something.
They have some brochures about their casino offerings and the process in their website:
http://www.usplayingcard.com/casino/

The date on the Aristocrats does imply (like you have written) that the Aristocrat red & blue are somewhat in-house production from USPC. "Somewhat" because they don't sell them straight to consumers themselves, so maybe it is more in line of "available for production wholesale orders". The original run from 2011 also has production codes on the AoS like mine do.
http://playingcards.wdfiles.com/local--files/other-uspcc%3Aaristocrat-banknote/Aristocrat%20Bank%20Note%20Reprints.JPG
The green edition which has ad cards from Magic-apple and Art of play doesn't have a production code on the AoS.

The web press and its relation to traditional cut is another interesting subject. I have a feeling that at present time the "standard order of production", meaning the way of production that is used for most everything they make (=casino orders, standard designs of their own consumer brands) ends up with a traditional cut. All my standard Bicycle, Bicycle Seconds, Bee, Tally-Ho decks are from 2015-2016, and each one is traditionally cut. On the other the hand custom decks I have (Mandolin back Bicycles (2016)*, the Aristocrats in question (2015), an Ellusionist deck (2014)*, a custom Bee branded deck (2014)*) are all cut with the blade entering from the back side.

* dates from tuck cases or the internet, as none of these have a date on the AoS.

I have learned that occasionally, at the new plant, they have a problem feeding paper into the die cutter when faced up (normal, modern cut), so they've been known to flip the paper over when feeding it, resulting in a face-down, traditional cut.  But this can happen quite literally at random, depending on how well the cutter is receiving press sheets - there's no way of predicting if a particular deck you purchase will be modern cut (most are) or traditional cut (some are, probably fewer than most).